Convention Center

[Urbanized]

No worries - and obviously TimeCar is not a solution for a convention crowd. How many conventions a year do you think OKC will have that has 5,000 out-of-town daily attendees? Where do 18,000 Thunder fans park?

I think a 5K standalone event is on the outside edge of what we would hope to see booked on a regular basis and would not be a large percentage of events booked. With a new facility and attached hotel perhaps a half dozen to a dozen of those per year, being optimistic. Much more common would be the 1K to 3K range, and even moreso the 250 to 1K range, but those can/would often be booked simultaneously, in which case you still may often have several thousand attendees coming and going on roughly the same schedule. The goal should be to have as many of these attendees on foot as possible, staying in downtown hotels and leaving their cars parked in hotel garages or perhaps without cars at all. Careful location of the CC allows for this, and in fact becomes one of the main selling points in a market that admittedly lacks sex appeal. I have seen it with my own eyes, when convention planners come to OKC they are blown away by what we actually have to offer vs. their (often) low expectations, and walkable convenience relative to hotel, dining and entertainment is our best selling feature.

Regarding Thunder fans, they (and downtown) benefit from the fact that most of the daytime workers exit downtown and downtown parking facilities shortly before game time. So Thunder fans recycle the recently-vacated spots and there is little conflict. Thunder fans park all over downtown, but I would roughly guess that the breakdown is in the neighborhood of 60%+ in the CBD and Arts District (garages, surface lots around arena) and maybe 30% in Bricktown (with 75% of those in LOWER Bricktown), with the balance coming in via shuttle from other parts of downtown and OKC, dropoff, and other means.

[dankrutka]

Wow. That's honestly kind of embarrassing.

My roommate walks to work every day, and I know it's one of the things he enjoys most about living downtown.

I think it just takes a mindset change for a lot of people. It's just different for people who get places via cars their entire lives. This is the first year I've been able to bike to campus everyday, and I absolutely love it.

[OkieBerto]

No worries - and obviously TimeCar is not a solution for a convention crowd. How many conventions a year do you think OKC will have that has 5,000 out-of-town daily attendees? Where do 18,000 Thunder fans park?

The problem is that our city thinks that building more parking garages is a fix to our parking problem. In fact, our main problem is transit availability. If the bus system ran 24/7 and ran on a grid system, especially in the downtown area, then most people who lived in or around the downtown area would not have to use the cars to go to work. This would also allow safer conditions for those who ride a bike on their commute to work. A larger transit system lowers traffic.

It has to start at the bottom though. You have to fix the bus system, then you do street car, then light rail and then you can have the train commutes from Edmond, Norman and Midwest City. After all of these are implemented, companies like Timecar and Uber will actually make sense. Right now you have communities and even the City unwilling to work with these changes. Oklahoman's now invest almost the same amount of money into their vehicles as they do in their homes.

[betts]

It has to start at the bottom though. You have to fix the bus system, then you do street car, then light rail and then you can have the train commutes from Edmond, Norman and Midwest City. After all of these are implemented, companies like Timecar and Uber will actually make sense. Right now you have communities and even the City unwilling to work with these changes. Oklahoman's now invest almost the same amount of money into their vehicles as they do in their homes.

Although what you're saying makes a lot of sense, it won't work that way. With our political climate and attitude towards cars versus buses, most taxpayers think buses are for people who cannot afford a car. They already think they're paying for those people's food (food stamps), health care and housing. In Oklahoma, you have to work backwards.

Trains and streetcars are sexy. They add a "wow" factor to a city, just like some of the other amenities we've created with MAPS. They also promise more speed, if not necessarily more convenience than a bus. Luckily, we've already got an initial streetcar system funded. That's going to add a big "wow" factor to downtown, I promise you. Seeing it, and with changing attitudes towards mass transit, I think we might be able to get an RTD funded with a small permanent sales tax. But to do so, you're going to have to talk trains, not buses. People will quickly figure out that taking a bus to or from the train makes their commute even easier, and that's when people will understand that buses are for everyone.

That's not really that much different than how it happened in other cities. Many of the larger cities just never got rid of their rail/streetcar system like OKC did. Buses followed rail transit in many of those cities as well.

[Just the facts]

The problem is that our city thinks that building more parking garages is a fix to our parking problem. In fact, our main problem is transit availability. If the bus system ran 24/7 and ran on a grid system, especially in the downtown area, then most people who lived in or around the downtown area would not have to use the cars to go to work. This would also allow safer conditions for those who ride a bike on their commute to work. A larger transit system lowers traffic.

It has to start at the bottom though. You have to fix the bus system, then you do street car, then light rail and then you can have the train commutes from Edmond, Norman and Midwest City. After all of these are implemented, companies like Timecar and Uber will actually make sense. Right now you have communities and even the City unwilling to work with these changes. Oklahoman's now invest almost the same amount of money into their vehicles as they do in their homes.

This is why I favor the creation of a mass transit district that focuses on available and frequency in a small geographic area vs. try to provide mass transit to 700 sq. miles. I also would prefer a neighborhood based bus system over a grid based system.

Anyhow, before this thread gets derailed here is a link to that discussion.

http://www.okctalk.com/transportatio...tml#post451129

[Plutonic Panda]

http://www.okctalk.com/announcements...arch-site.html

Thanks.... I tried Google and that didn't work and I also tried using the search feature. but didn't go advanced

[Pete]

I deleted a bunch of posts that were way, way off topic.

This thread is for the Convention Center. Thanks.

[warreng88]

Eminent development?

The city is expected to apply eminent domain claim in order to acquire the proposed downtown convention center.

Ben Felder April 11th, 2014

Oklahoma City is moving forward with eminent domain proceedings in order to acquire land for a proposed downtown convention center.

After failing to negotiate a purchase price with the owners of several lots west of Chesapeake Energy Arena, the Oklahoma City Council authorized city staff to file an eminent domain claim with a vote on March 18.

The timing of the vote is one that Ward 2 Councilman Ed Shadid finds ironic.

“The city, in my opinion, purposely delayed this and the fact that they couldn’t agree on the land price until after the mayoral election,” Shadid said.

Shadid, who challenged Mayor Mick Cornett for the mayoral seat this year, made the Metropolitan Area Projects (MAPS 3) convention center project a central part of his campaign. Shadid argued that a new convention center was not a good idea for the city, and he believes movement on the convention center was delayed until after the March 4 election.

Shadid said an intentional effort was made to ignore a convention center study and the need for eminent domain proceedings because it would have brought attention to his campaign. He also accused local of media of going along with the effort.

“We’ve known for three years where we are going to put the convention center, so what’s the delay?” Shadid pushed.

City officials working with the convention center process say the release of a new study and the timing of the eminent domain decision were not delayed. In fact, David Todd, program director of MAPS 3, said the convention center project was ahead of schedule.

“The city made an offer [on the land] months ago, but we were kind of waiting on [the property owners] to respond,” Todd said.

The mayor’s office said it had no involvement in the timing of convention center studies or land acquisition attempts.

“The mayor’s office doesn’t play a role in that type of timing,” said Steve Hill, Cornett’s chief of staff. “To the best of our knowledge, politics did not play a part [in the timing].”

Support for convention center, not hotel
In a News9/Oklahoma Gazette poll of Oklahoma City residents conducted this year, questions were asked about the public’s support for MAPS 3 and the convention center project.

Fifty-four percent of residents surveyed said they either strongly support or somewhat support using MAPS 3 funding to build a new downtown convention center. Thirty-eight percent were somewhat opposed or strongly opposed. The poll received responses from 980 residents with a margin of error at 3.13 percent.

However, when it came to using public funds to help construct a new convention center hotel, 71 percent were somewhat opposed or strongly opposed.

The city council has authorized The PFM Group, an investment advisory firm, to continue with a study into what public incentives might be needed to develop a convention center hotel, which some believe is necessary to draw needed convention business. The firm’s managing director, Tom Morsch, told the city council last month that the study will advise on whether or not a hotel might need public assistance.

“The task is now to take the study and take a look at the convention center as a whole and determine if a subsidy would be needed,” Morsch told the council. “We will look at the various ways communities do subsidies for convention centers.”

Shadid has been critical of using public incentives for a hotel and said market demand should drive its construction.

“If what they are saying is true, that there is going to be as much [convention center] demand as they say, you would have private hotel companies coming here and trying to be first in line to build,” Shadid said.

The city council has not implied which way it would be willing to go concerning tax dollars for a hotel, and Ward 6 Councilwoman Meg Salyer said she believed more study was needed.

“We’ve all talked around the fringes of this,” Salyer said. “I don’t feel that I know enough to make that type of decision right now.”

Oklahoma Gazette News: The city is expected to apply eminent domain claim in order to acquire the proposed downtown convention center.

[PhiAlpha]

This screams "SOUR GRAPES!!!!" from Dred


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[Pete]

“The city, in my opinion, purposely delayed this and the fact that they couldn’t agree on the land price until after the mayoral election,” Shadid said.

The timing raised my eyebrows as well.

The last real word was an article by Steve on 10/22/13 saying the City was waiting to hear back on the offers; the implication being they had been out for a while.

Then we hear nothing until mid-March (fully 5 months later) when there is a sudden declaration of an impasse and the need to invoke eminent domain. Less than two weeks after the election.

Were there any meaningful updates or reports between these two events? I may have missed them but I looked hard and paid close attention along the way. My impression (and no doubt that of pretty much everyone else) was that all was fine and on track; that was absolutely the message in the 10/22 article.


I've said this all the way along: Shadid has raised some good points about this whole process (site selection, being moved up in the timeline, the lack of fully communicating the total cost of the project that essentially requires a publicly-funded hotel, the bizarre shifting of MAPS3 funds for the possible relocation of the OG&E facility, among other things) but they got lost in all the other rhetoric.

He was actually right on many points and he may continue to be, but unfortunately he's more than exhausted all his political capital.

But that doesn't mean some dodgy things haven't happened; it just means there is one less person to call it to our attention, because no one is going to listen to him anymore.

[soonerguru]

Poor baby.

[boitoirich]

^ We're the poor ones. We need to listen to this. Before the mayoral election campaign, many of us on this site were not impressed with the convention center process. Just one round of elective politics later, and now we're not as engaged on this issue in particular as before. I don't think this information would have affected the outcome of the election at all -- it just would have made the process a bit less smooth for the incumbent. We should all be pushing for more transparency and public participation in city government -- regardless of who you supported.

[HangryHippo]

^ We're the poor ones. We need to listen to this. Before the mayoral election campaign, many of us on this site were not impressed with the convention center process. Just one round of elective politics later, and now we're not as engaged on this issue in particular as before. I don't think this information would have affected the outcome of the election at all -- it just would have made the process a bit less smooth for the incumbent. We should all be pushing for more transparency and public participation in city government -- regardless of who you supported.

Very well said.

Ed's asshat tactics will cost him, but he was spot on with a lot of his points about this CC cluster.

[RickOKC]

If there was any delay it wouldn't have been on account of the Mayoral race. It would have been to see if the petition against the CC was successful, in my opinion.

Smart perspective, Sid. While the timing seems a little odd, we don't have to automatically accept Shadid's premise/explanation for it. The success or failure of the petition drive seems like a more reasonable connection to make here.

As we look in retrospect at just how poorly Shadid's campaign was received, it's hard to believe that some backroom power brokers were concerned that this news might tip the election in Shadid's favor.

[betts]

I will also add that there was a similar delay in information about the attempt to purchase the Santa Fe Depot. Every month in our streetcar meeting we would ask if there was any news on progress on purchasing the Depot and for months we were told they were working on it. The city rarely appears to be in a hurry about anything. So, while there may be political reasons for the delay, it's also possible it was due to city business as usual.

[mkjeeves]

... business as usual.

You don't say.

[Pete]

I will also add that there was a similar delay in information about the attempt to purchase the Santa Fe Depot. Every month in our streetcar meeting we would ask if there was any news on progress on purchasing the Depot and for months we were told they were working on it. The city rarely appears to be in a hurry about anything. So, while there may be political reasons for the delay, it's also possible it was due to city business as usual.

There was a pretty big difference in the way the City released info on these two projects.

With the station, we knew almost right away that the Brewers made a counter offer -- including the amount -- and that the two parties were very far apart. Then with the CC, there was never anything said between 10/22 when "all is on track, waiting on owners" to 3/13 "we are taking them to court".

It's not just about the delay, it's about how absolutely nothing was released about this until after the election, even though this was a key issue in that race. (BTW, if there was any other info released during this time, I hope someone with correct me).


Considering the way this project has been handled in the past and that all the key people involved were hired by someone who was appointed by the sitting mayor and the major players on the CC committee were strong supporters of Cornett, it's not a big leap to think politics may have entered in here.

[OKVision4U]

The City ( The People ) need to keep their eye on the ball on this one. We voted in MAPS 3 for a convention center, and we will get one. Shadid lost a race because he could not connect w/ the majority, only the "rock throwing" group that always looks outside and complains about the process of progress. ( Water cooler Monday morning QB's. )

The convention center will be located DT and it will need land to sit on. The rest is just a formality. Of course there is politics involved, that is part of formula for making things move forward. You all need to get back to the Exciting News of a Convention Center in OKC and how we can make it the best city in the US!

MAPS success is based on the big picture and all of us seeing what we can become. Not what we used to be. It's time we all get back in the boat and row in the same direction...it works better that way for all of us. The City benefits, The State benefits, and each one of us benefit from a more diverse economy that is expanding. Let's keep THAT going.

I'm exicted about all the big projects for OKC. The Park. The Convention Center. The River. The Streetcar ( and I may never ride it, but it's kind of a cool thing for others to enjoy, so I'm for it for them. ) ...and the new Blvd. etc... Let's keep it going.

[PhiAlpha]

I've said this all the way along: Shadid has raised some good points about this whole process (site selection, being moved up in the timeline, the lack of fully communicating the total cost of the project that essentially requires a publicly-funded hotel, the bizarre shifting of MAPS3 funds for the possible relocation of the OG&E facility, among other things) but they got lost in all the other rhetoric.

He was actually right on many points and he may continue to be, but unfortunately he's more than exhausted all his political capital.

But that doesn't mean some dodgy things haven't happened; it just means there is one less person to call it to our attention, because no one is going to listen to him anymore.

I agree, it's too bad Shadid made a complete fool of himself during the election. It's made it very difficult to take him seriously. His scorched earth, kill maps all together stance he took for awhile didn't help either.


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[BoulderSooner]

There was a pretty big difference in the way the City released info on these two projects.

With the station, we knew almost right away that the Brewers made a counter offer -- including the amount -- and that the two parties were very far apart. Then with the CC, there was never anything said between 10/22 when "all is on track, waiting on owners" to 3/13 "we are taking them to court".

It's not just about the delay, it's about how absolutely nothing was released about this until after the election, even though this was a key issue in that race. (BTW, if there was any other info released during this time, I hope someone with correct me).


Considering the way this project has been handled in the past and that all the key people involved were hired by someone who was appointed by the sitting mayor and the major players on the CC committee were strong supporters of Cornett, it's not a big leap to think politics may have entered in here.

This is not accurate. The brewers didn't even respond for well over 3 months. And then it was a months longer before a counter was made. At that point the brewers decided to play it out in the press.

In the cc case. The owner decided after a while that the ed process. Was the best way to go. But not in a contentious way

IMHO that is because of the community standing of the owners. They will go with the decision. Of the panel and not appeal.

[kevinpate]

I don't watch the okc cc matters daily, or even weekly, but my memory matches up with the summary BoulderSooner has posted. It was the owners who a while back said hey city, go ahead with e-domain process. We're good with that approach to setting a sales price.

[RickOKC]

There was a pretty big difference in the way the City released info on these two projects.

With the station, we knew almost right away that the Brewers made a counter offer -- including the amount -- and that the two parties were very far apart. Then with the CC, there was never anything said between 10/22 when "all is on track, waiting on owners" to 3/13 "we are taking them to court".

It's not just about the delay, it's about how absolutely nothing was released about this until after the election, even though this was a key issue in that race. (BTW, if there was any other info released during this time, I hope someone with correct me).


Considering the way this project has been handled in the past and that all the key people involved were hired by someone who was appointed by the sitting mayor and the major players on the CC committee were strong supporters of Cornett, it's not a big leap to think politics may have entered in here.

Again, I don't doubt that politics may have played into the timing. I just don't see why the political angle has to automatically be suppression of information to help Mick's re-election chances. Shadid said far worse things about Mick regarding the Convention Center, and none of those accusations seemed to alter people's opinion, either.

[catch22]

I seem to recall an article several months ago, where the owners of the property said instead of having blood on the walls by fighting over a price in public, that they told the city they'd rather go through the eminent domain process. I see no foul here if that's what the city and the property owners agreed to. Who cares?

[betts]

Boulder Sooner is correct, but it seemed like 6 months rather than 3 before we heard anything. Again, I think the city is never in a hurry, for reasons that are not completely clear. I can't guarantee there was no conspiracy, but the delay fits SOP around here.

[Laramie]

Oklahoma City is taking her sweet time and putting feelers out there to see if a convention center hotel with or without the need of public subsidies can be achieved. Unfortunately, any major hotel chain wanting to build a 700-800 room mega hotel know that there are $30 million in a contingency fund just waiting to be tapped.

A smart-aggressive hotel chain is going to 'French kiss' Oklahoma City until a tonsillectomy is performed on that contingency fund and OKC regurgitates some dollars.

They (hotel chains) know that Oklahoma City is 'in heat' for a convention center hotel and that she will do just about anything to get the convention center & convention center hotel constructed concurrently.

Did we put ourselves in a position to be tied to the tracks?



Would you untie me for $15 million?

Let's get the new downtown convention center & convention center hotel built; let's be careful not to show our hand before discarding...

"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.