Convention Center

[Plutonic Panda]

Here is Nashville's convention center:





I hope ours is more vertical, but this is world class.

[betts]

And my first thought: How do you compete with that? Second thought: We can't. I guess we have to think smaller.

[Spartan]

I find it egregious how it dwarfs the city behind it. Wouldn't want to live near that thing.

[betts]

My favorite CC design was the one on the substation site that had apartments along the west wall facing the park. I want to say it was 8-10 stories tall. If it's really true that the land price for the current site selection is nearing $75 million, and I'm not sure I believe that, the substation site should enter the dialogue again, with its $30 million price tag.

[soonerguru]

I find it egregious how it dwarfs the city behind it. Wouldn't want to live near that thing.

I think it is hideously ugly and is completely inharmonious with Nashville.

[bchris02]

I can't believe anybody would be arguing against the convention center, or that the Cox is good enough for the next 20 years, especially when cities half the size of OKC have better convention centers. Nashville's convention center looks amazing. Who cares if it doesn't fit all the standards of new urbanism, it's an attractive center and represents the city of Nashville well. OKC can have an attractive convention center as well if the people want it.

[David]

Just because it doesn't have to be urban, it doesn't mean it can't be urban. A couple years back I had the opportunity to visit the Philadelphia convention center, and at the time I thought it fit very nicely with the downtown there. Of course it has the added benefit of sitting right next door to the Reading Terminal Market, which made for a great lunch spot on several of the days I was in town.

[OKCRT]

I think it is hideously ugly and is completely inharmonious with Nashville.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford NOT to build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

[bchris02]

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford NOT to build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I agree. This convention center will go a long way towards bringing OKC ahead of places like Tulsa, Wichita, or Little Rock. The Little Rock convention center is actually around the same size as the Cox. The Hot Springs convention center is bigger. Also think about this. If OKC doesn't built a new convention center, chances are Tulsa will. Do we really want the biggest and most high profile conventions in the state happening in Tulsa rather than OKC?

[OKCRT]

I think it is hideously ugly and is completely inharmonious with Nashville.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford to NOT build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

[OKCRT]

Next maps project should be for street car expansion and to finish out a world class CC with hotel. I would vote for it and I know many others would as well. It's time for OKC to do these things right and not just to bare bones minimum standards.

[OKVision4U]

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford to NOT build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I 100% agree. We dont' need to just equal Tulsa / Wichita ..., no. We need to leave them far behind. This is our chance to do something amazing. ( We already have average, we want more than average ).

[kevinpate]

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.
...

they kinda did on the roof. Not the purtiest ge-tar I ever seen, but might look better if one is flying over and looking down.

[GaryOKC6]

At the very least OKC will have a better place for events which in it self make OKC a more attractive place. I was very much in favor of the first MAPS projects in 1993 and the arguments were similar. "Building a new arena is a waste of tax payer dollars", "we don't need a new arena because we have the cox center" were the most common followed by "why are building a ball park" and my personal favorite ...."why do we need to put locks in the North Canadian River?" The first maps barley passed and OKC is damn lucky that the citizens believed in our city enough to take a chance and not listen to outsiders who told us we were all crazy, and that it won't work. Oklahoma City would probably be a shadow of what it is today without MAPS. Every great city is defined by their downtown and nobody wants to live in a suburb of nothing.

[Spartan]

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford NOT to build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I'm sorry but I agree in theory, but in practice is plunking down $500M on a CC the best way to do that? There are certain irrefutable realities about the convention industry that may make a $250M state of the art CC the right strategic investment for OKC. We will spend the money and there probably will be a MAPS 4 and we'll spend that money. But on what?

I have a feeling that if the trends continue for the next ten years as we draw closer to that conversation, a traditional CC expansion won't be the right plan and we will know that. There will be a better way to spend another $250M that will put us up w Denver, KC, and Atx.

[Plutonic Panda]

And my first thought: How do you compete with that? Second thought: We can't. I guess we have to think smaller.

Why couldn't we compete with it?

[Plutonic Panda]

I find it egregious how it dwarfs the city behind it. Wouldn't want to live near that thing.

"Dwarfs the city behind it"?????? Really!? That's strange. It is a very beautiful structure and almost anyone would be lucky to live by it, I know I wouldn't mind living by it.

[betts]

Too big. We couldn't compete for conventions that need that kind of space without spending a lot more than $250 million, I suspect.

[Plutonic Panda]

I can't believe anybody would be arguing against the convention center, or that the Cox is good enough for the next 20 years, especially when cities half the size of OKC have better convention centers. Nashville's convention center looks amazing. Who cares if it doesn't fit all the standards of new urbanism, it's an attractive center and represents the city of Nashville well. OKC can have an attractive convention center as well if the people want it.

I couldn't agree more with this post. I'm not a fan of new urbanism anyways, but this beauty blows any new urbanism project out of the water, imo.

[Plutonic Panda]

Too big. We couldn't compete for conventions that need that kind of space without spending a lot more than $250 million, I suspect.

Well, I believe Nashville spent around $600 million on theirs. If what some are saying about the finalized cost of our convention center being $800 million, then we could easily support a competing one. I also think theirs looks bigger because it is sprawled out more instead of being more vertical.

Maybe you're right though, I honestly haven't spent much time researching this matter. Not sure if OKC would even be able to attract conventions like that even with a better convention center than Nashville's.

[Urbanized]

What exactly do you think "new urbanism" means?

[Plutonic Panda]

Just because it doesn't have to be urban, it doesn't mean it can't be urban. A couple years back I had the opportunity to visit the Philadelphia convention center, and at the time I thought it fit very nicely with the downtown there. Of course it has the added benefit of sitting right next door to the Reading Terminal Market, which made for a great lunch spot on several of the days I was in town.

Hey, I support a more urban convention center here in OKC. But saying just because it doesn't have to be urban, doesn't mean it can't be urban could be said for a suburban style.

Again, I think OKC's convention center should be held up to urbanist standards, but I think we can still make an amazing convention center. I esp. like the grass on the roof. It would be nice to see some ordinance requiring some amount of plants on rooftops.

[betts]

Well, I believe Nashville spent around $600 million on theirs. If what some are saying about the finalized cost of our convention center being $800 million, then we could easily support a competing one. I also think theirs looks bigger because it is sprawled out more instead of being more vertical.

Maybe you're right though, I honestly haven't spent much time researching this matter. Not sure if OKC would even be able to attract conventions like that even with a better convention center than Nashville's.

I don't think we should plan on a phase II. I think it's going to be a hard sell. We may end up without a phase I if one of our mayoral candidates has his way. Wonder if he's ever been inside the Cox Center? Or really looked at the outside? Or thought about losing that superblock? Maybe that would be concentrating on downtown too much.....

[Plutonic Panda]

What exactly do you think "new urbanism" means?

I believe new urbanism is a building style that only works if an entire community is built to its standards. I think new urbanist communities are great to have and can provide wonderful benefits for the people the live, work, and play in them. I prefer suburban, but that's just me. I want to see Edmond's core redeveloped to become a miniature new urbanist community probably more than anyone and have talked to Charles Lamb about it a few times and I've heard Edmond is open to the idea.

[Plutonic Panda]

I don't think we should plan on a phase II. I think it's going to be a hard sell. We may end up without a phase I if one of our mayoral candidates has his way. Wonder if he's ever been inside the Cox Center?

Yeah, that is completely true. I actually thought about that... I doubt Ed has been in the Cox center seeing as he's never been to as Thunder game. Hopefully we at least get a phase one built.