Brickopolis

[Architect2010]

Or maybe you should manage your expectations of other people's opinions...

I don't personally "like" this project, but I'm excited to see something different come up along the canal. I think there's nothing wrong though with having hoped something more could have came out of the site. In a realistic world, there very well could have been an 8-story hotel or whathaveyou on this site, it just didn't happen that way.

[BDP]

In my personal opinion its not exactly what I would like to see for that space, but why in the world would anyone rather that area stay grass than have millions of dollars spent to improve it?

Developments can often have a downward pull on an area and hinder its improvement for years to come. Sometimes it is better to have nothing. Seriously. You could have put an Arby's there and I don't think anyone would be thinking "I'm so glad this is finally getting developed. Now Bricktown will really begin to fill up!". IMO, this development only continues the philosophy that has made Bricktown development in general grow stagnant. For it really to achieve some sort of critical mass it needs better pedestrian flow and less surface parking occupying prime spots. This only serves to exacerbate Bricktown's shortcomings rather than improve upon them.

[OklahomaNick]

Developments can often have a downward pull on an area and hinder its improvement for years to come. Sometimes it is better to have nothing. Seriously. You could have put an Arby's there and I don't think anyone would be thinking "I'm so glad this is finally getting developed. Now Bricktown will really begin to fill up!". IMO, this development only continues the philosophy that has made Bricktown development in general grow stagnant. For it really to achieve some sort of critical mass it needs better pedestrian flow and less surface parking occupying prime spots. This only serves to exacerbate Bricktown's shortcomings rather than improve upon them.

Point taken, but its not like we have people just lined up to develop this site..
I was a fan of the Cotton Exchange, but that is LONG gone. Have we not gotten over that? Is that everyone's expectation for ths site? They did set the bar pretty high. That was going to be a cool project.

[skanaly]

If any new buildings are built on the canal, or just in bricktown...they can't be glass right?..maybe all brick

[bluedogok]

What a waste.....of time, money and space.
It seems like the lowest common denominator still is unfortunately the OKC standard.

[BDP]

Point taken, but its not like we have people just lined up to develop this site..
I was a fan of the Cotton Exchange, but that is LONG gone. Have we not gotten over that? Is that everyone's expectation for ths site? They did set the bar pretty high. That was going to be a cool project.

Honestly, I don't think it needs to be anything that grand, although it obviously would have been cool. But this is pretty bad. The worst part is that it is on ground that is kind of the center piece of the canal. It really is the gateway from the street to the canal. It's also an important connection from Bricktown to Lower Bricktown. So now really, the center of Bricktown on Sheridan is largely a parking lot, the gateway to the canal and down Mickey Mantle will feature a surface parking lot at its center, and Lower Bricktown is more surface parking than anything else. So it ends up being as much emptiness as it is attractions.

It just kind of feels like Bricktown has lost some potential and it now just is was it is, and that's what's it's gonna be. IMO, this project is kind of the capstone to Bricktown's legacy of development mediocrity. At one time, I did think Bricktown could be a dense, vibrant, and diverse entertainment district as good as many in the country and better than some in the region. But I don't really see that any more. Unless something comes along that tries to really make a positive impact, this is it for Bricktown.

Due to its location, this site had the potential to really breathe life back into bricktown in terms of development and get people interested in the canal again, but I honestly don't see how this is an improvement in any way. I almost think it would have been better to commit it to green space and spruce it up than to just just pave over most of it and park cars on it.

[soonerguru]

This is a complete and total abortion. My company often hosts events in Bricktown / Downtown. I will make sure we never spend a dime there.

[MDot]

This is a complete and total abortion. My company often hosts events in Bricktown / Downtown. I will make sure we never spend a dime there.

You like the term "abortion", don't you? This is the second day in a row you've used it. LOL

[kevinpate]

What I don't understand is why the parking is being built. I don't mind the building but since when did we need more surface parking in Bricktown?

because peeps will pay for close in spaces rather than stroll in from farther out free spaces

[jungmuny]

As I said in the C2S thread, there are still plans for a bricktown public garage. If it is free, many of these surface lots will become a thing of the past at some point the distant future.

[wschnitt]

As I said in the C2S thread, there are still plans for a bricktown public garage. If it is free, many of these surface lots will become a thing of the past at some point the distant future.

Free would be ideal.

[Skyline]

Is this project being built with the possibility of going vertical?

If the parking lots are to be converted at a later date.

[Fantastic]

Is this project being built with the possibility of going vertical?

If the parking lots are to be converted at a later date.

I THINK the answer to your question is yes... perhaps Steve can correct me if I'm wrong. Even if it is, I think that very few if any have faith that it would ever happen.

[BDP]

because peeps will pay for close in spaces rather than stroll in from farther out free spaces

It's funny that people would pay at all to hang out in an area dominated by parking lots in the first place, but it does make a good point: it seems the market here wants more parking more than they want a better entertainment district. The irony is that people here will complain about parking in bricktown, yet they will pay more to visit other cities to hang out in better entertainment districts that are better in large part because they are dominated by attractions and not parking lots. Bricktown has always kind of catered to that mentality. It seems bricktown's only worthy competitor is itself 5, 10, 15 years ago. Everyone just talks about how it can be better than it was in the recent past, which isn't that impressive, instead of thinking about how it can be as good as other districts like it in the region.

[Skyline]

It's funny that people would pay at all to hang out in an area dominated by parking lots in the first place, but it does make a good point: it seems the market here wants more parking more than they want a better entertainment district.

It really is that simple.

[jungmuny]

You aren't considering the possibility that maybe people don't know exactly what they want, especially when it comes to an entertainment district. It seems like a lot of the bricktown crowd is out of towners (rural people) who like the surface parking for its convenience and familiarity. But I think people would walk an extra couple of blocks to a central garage if they could save $5-10.

Cornett's talking point on bricktown parking has been "Parking is a perception issue, its not a real issue." I've almost gotten tired of hearing it he has said it so much. But he sounds like he is changing his tune recently. His quote in the new online Downtown magazine:

We are also going to do another parking study. Some of the parking issues are still perception, but it's time to take another look at actual parking availability.

[BoulderSooner]

parking in bricktown is still a perception issue ...

he is talking about parking in the CBD during business hours ... it is becoming a problem

[BDP]

Cornett's talking point on bricktown parking has been "Parking is a perception issue, its not a real issue."

Personally, I do think parking is an issue, in that too much prime real estate is committed to parking and that is the main reason Bricktown has failed to reach a tipping point to becoming a higher profile entertainment district. If there was more stuff in the district, no one would complain about parking because the district would be worth walking to. Basically, you can pick any point in bricktown and walk in any direction the same distance that it takes to walk from one end of a super Wal-Mart to the other and you will be unable to avoid walking past surface parking. That is a development failure and a serious roadblock from BT ever achieving critical mass.

[Doug Loudenback]

because peeps will pay for close in spaces rather than stroll in from farther out free spaces

Kevin, et al, although I generally agree that this project could certainly have been a lot better, it is also true that people with breathing or walking handicaps don't have the capability of "strolling in from further out free places," and I'm one of the "peeps" due to breathing issues. I just cannot walk for 1 to 1/2 block without being totally winded, and sometimes not even that far, depending on the temperature (either very hot or very cold = bad for me). So, it's not a totally black and white issue is all I'm saying.

[soonerliberal]

Kevin, et al, although I generally agree that this project could certainly have been a lot better, it is also true that people with breathing or walking handicaps don't have the capability of "strolling in from further out free places," and I'm one of the "peeps" due to breathing issues. I just cannot walk for 1 to 1/2 block without being totally winded, and sometimes not even that far, depending on the temperature (either very hot or very cold = bad for me). So, it's not a totally black and white issue is all I'm saying.

With total respect intended towards you and your health, you are the exception to the rule. Ninety percent of those who whine about there not being enough parking within a couple blocks of their destination are so used to the drive-thru culture. Every major development in major cities have accommodations for those with disabilities. There are plenty of handicapped spaces readily available even in the downtown areas of major east coast cities. However, there is not parking for those who do not NEED it always readily available. It is the simple elementary difference between Needs and Wants. Too many people WANT to walk less than a block from their car, even if they do not NEED to do so.

[BDP]

I just cannot walk for 1 to 1/2 block without being totally winded, and sometimes not even that far, depending on the temperature (either very hot or very cold = bad for me). So, it's not a totally black and white issue is all I'm saying.

Which is another reason these developments are bad. The lots spread everything out more and make it harder for some people to experience all of bricktown. If every half block is surface parking, then you always have to walk a block from one joint to the next. I am all for making sure we have ample nearby parking for people with disabilities. I am perfectly willing to walk a little bit further to accommodate that. And the closer and more dense the attractions are, the more accessible and worth while it is for less mobile individuals, as they can walk less and do more.

[Doug Loudenback]

SoonerLiberal: If you say so. But it is not at all uncommon for me to find the handicapped parking slots already full.

[metro]

With total respect intended towards you and your health, you are the exception to the rule. Ninety percent of those who whine about there not being enough parking within a couple blocks of their destination are so used to the drive-thru culture. Every major development in major cities have accommodations for those with disabilities. There are plenty of handicapped spaces readily available even in the downtown areas of major east coast cities. However, there is not parking for those who do not NEED it always readily available. It is the simple elementary difference between Needs and Wants. Too many people WANT to walk less than a block from their car, even if they do not NEED to do so.

Awesome post!

[ljbab728]

SoonerLiberal: If you say so. But it is not at all uncommon for me to find the handicapped parking slots already full.

Doug, you're absolutely correct. I also utilize handicap parking and have the same problem. Some just don't realize how many people need handicap parking spots and not enough are allotted.

[MDot]

They need to build three or four 6-story parking garages in the middle of Bricktown and make the entire 1st level of all the parking garages handicapped. Just kidding of course...