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Thread: Union Station

  1. #76

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Urban; thanks for your thoughts. Just double dawg danaged frustrating to see what could be avoided if the proper planning was put into place before they present these ideas to the voters. Yes that costs money too but a million bucks spent in proper planning to avoid multi-million dollar mistakes seems the wisest course. Meaning how projects, including MAPS & others, interact with each other etc. All too often it seems like the proverbial left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. When they decided on the current Bus Transit Center (which had to be relocated because of the Ballpark), was no thought given to the the future transit Hub etc. or was that not even on anyone's radar screen at the time? I don't know the exact chronological timing of it, just know that they have been studying the Mass Transit needs for quite a while now. Not looking at the bigger, long term future. How many times have we decided to rip something out then turn around a bit later and decide to put it back in again? Like traffic circles among many other things.

    Also appreciate the grade/elevation change "challenges". Easy to lose sight that we don't live in a flat 2-D world, that OKC does actually have those types of things. Quickly reminded how non-flat we are during every ice storm and you try to come to a stop where intended...

    Guess the answer to utilizing Union Station is just to move it to the upper edge of the Park so it can connect with the Streetcar? Make it like the front door entrance to the Park (like Disneyland). Sounds like it would be cheaper to bring the Station to the Streetcar than the Streetcar to the Station. Heck, I would much rather spend $30MM to move it than the OGE thingy. LOL

    In answer to your questions;
    A. Yes absolutely!
    B. OK, sure, why not
    C. No (if i understood it correctly)

  2. #77

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry OKC View Post
    Urban; thanks for your thoughts. Just double dawg danaged frustrating to see what could be avoided if the proper planning was put into place before they present these ideas to the voters. Yes that costs money too but a million bucks spent in proper planning to avoid multi-million dollar mistakes seems the wisest course. Meaning how projects, including MAPS & others, interact with each other etc. All too often it seems like the proverbial left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. When they decided on the current Bus Transit Center (which had to be relocated because of the Ballpark), was no thought given to the the future transit Hub etc. or was that not even on anyone's radar screen at the time? I don't know the exact chronological timing of it, just know that they have been studying the Mass Transit needs for quite a while now. Not looking at the bigger, long term future. How many times have we decided to rip something out then turn around a bit later and decide to put it back in again? Like traffic circles among many other things.

    Also appreciate the grade/elevation change "challenges". Easy to lose sight that we don't live in a flat 2-D world, that OKC does actually have those types of things. Quickly reminded how non-flat we are during every ice storm and you try to come to a stop where intended...

    Guess the answer to utilizing Union Station is just to move it to the upper edge of the Park so it can connect with the Streetcar? Make it like the front door entrance to the Park (like Disneyland). Sounds like it would be cheaper to bring the Station to the Streetcar than the Streetcar to the Station. Heck, I would much rather spend $30MM to move it than the OGE thingy. LOL

    In answer to your questions;
    A. Yes absolutely!
    B. OK, sure, why not
    C. No (if i understood it correctly)
    False statement, the Bus Transit was S. of the Myriad (Cox Center) the building of the Ballpark had zero to do with it's moving.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    THATS what you have trouble with? LOL

    OK, I was so frustrated i did that one from memory and didn't look it up first. My bad. Why was the transit moved from south of the Myriad? What was moved/torn down for the Ballpark?

    ON EDIT: I got my MAPS projects mixed up, the Transit Center was moved to make way for the Ford Center and COTPA was relocated to make room for the Ballpark, so RCJunkie was right for once...
    http://www.gometro.org/history-4
    In 1996, COTPA’s operations and maintenance facility was relocated to 2000 S May in order to make way for the Bricktown Ballpark. Then in the late 90s the transit center was moved to make the construction of the Ford Center possible. The transit center’s temporary site was across from the Oklahoma County Jail at Shartel and Couch.
    So that sentence should read...
    "When they decided on the current Bus Transit Center (which had to be relocated because of the Ford Center), was no thought given to the the future transit Hub etc. or was that not even on anyone's radar screen at the time?"

  4. #79

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Well personally I am not surprised that the Bus Center went where it went. The support simply has not existed until about 5 years ago to actually spend the money to do the actual planning that needs to be done.

    For that matter, very few city staff are willing to expose themselves to risk and lead planning on major projects that may or may not have public/council support.

    Regarding the importance of actually going further into the park with the streetcar, I think it is less important as the Convention Center is not along side of it. However, the Park Committee will need to weigh in on this matter.

    I would say that straight alignments from the new Hub outward make more practical sense for future commuter then re-routing them through a park before going into the core of downtown simply to go by Union Station. That is, if you are looking at it from an efficiency point of view.

  5. #80

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    When I get the photo's of the old tunnels downloaded, I will put them up.

  6. #81

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Urban: It may have gotten lost in my frustration but I do like that different subcommittees are talking to each other and seeing how it all fits together for the common good. We could use more of that and less of the vacuum mentality or even worse, the us vs. them that sometimes happens.

  7. #82
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    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Anytime you have lost of money to be spent, there will be competition and conflict among those that perceive they have the power to direct it.

  8. #83

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Here are the promised pics of the severed historic Union Station underground pedestrian tunnels.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Union Station Tunnel Pic 1.jpg 
Views:	201 
Size:	428.6 KB 
ID:	957

    Note the new concrete wall to the left is the new retaining wall with the highway and freight rail alignments behind it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Union Station Tunnel Pic 2.jpg 
Views:	173 
Size:	410.9 KB 
ID:	956

  9. #84

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Here is the new highway directly behind the wall described above. The new highway and rail alignment is essentially at "tunnel level."

    The old rail yard and platforms would have been centered between the two photographs.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Union Station Pic facing SE.jpg 
Views:	146 
Size:	289.6 KB 
ID:	959
    Facing SE

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Union Station Pic SW.jpg 
Views:	139 
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ID:	958
    Facing SW

  10. #85

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Thanks for those, UP.

    Makes me sad to see that as that old tunnel was pretty cool.

    But looking forward to getting the C2S park going and bringing Union Station back to prominence.

  11. #86

    Default Re: Union Station (the building, not transport issues!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Pioneer View Post
    Here are the promised pics of the severed historic Union Station underground pedestrian tunnels.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Union Station Tunnel Pic 1.jpg 
Views:	201 
Size:	428.6 KB 
ID:	957

    Note the new concrete wall to the left is the new retaining wall with the highway and freight rail alignments behind it.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Union Station Tunnel Pic 2.jpg 
Views:	173 
Size:	410.9 KB 
ID:	956
    http://www.40forward.com/faqs/
    Why do you have to destroy Union Station to build the new Crosstown?
    This is a common misconception. Construction of the new Crosstown is not destroying Union station....
    Nope, not destroying the Station, just the Station's Tunnels... as seen by clicking on the links above.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Union Station

    A recent photo... One of the best things about the new Central Park is that this beautiful structure will be featured:


  13. #88

    Default Re: Union Station

    Sid, if you haven't already done so, you should go down there and walk around the inside.

    The COPTA offices are still there and it's a junky mess, but basically the whole place has been preserved beneath the easily-removable partitions and other changes.

    All the original flooring, light fixtures, ticket windows, etc.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Union Station

    That doesn't surprise me!


    You know, I've yet to hear of any plans for this building. There is nothing in the Central Park budget for it, never have heard of where COPTA might move, certainly no formalized effort to determine the highest and best use.

    It won't be long until the first phase of Central Park is complete and this building will be a jumbled, relatively inaccessible mess on the inside.

  15. #90

    Default Re: Union Station

    The building's location is unfortunate - it really is too bad it couldn't have been used for a rail/transit hub. Santa Fe station is nice enough and will serve the purpose, but Union Station would have been the ideal choice were it not for location. (Geez, I know I may have opened a can of worms but I didn't intend to.)

    I wonder what its eventual use will be once Central Park is in place and redevelopment begins.

  16. #91

    Default Re: Union Station

    It will get plenty of exposure once the park is largely complete.

    I'd like to see a nice restaurant / cafe facing the park with dining on the outdoor terrace and just inside:


  17. #92

    Default Re: Union Station

    For those who haven't seen the inside of this building, I have a ton of photos starting here:

    Union Station - Discussion - OKCTalk

  18. #93

    Default Re: Union Station

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptDave View Post
    The building's location is unfortunate - it really is too bad it couldn't have been used for a rail/transit hub. Santa Fe station is nice enough and will serve the purpose, but Union Station would have been the ideal choice were it not for location. (Geez, I know I may have opened a can of worms but I didn't intend to.)

    I wonder what its eventual use will be once Central Park is in place and redevelopment begins.
    Watch out, you're going to resurrect the ghost of Tom Elmore ....

  19. #94

    Default Re: Union Station

    WOW! that building has so much potential. I really hope the city maximizes this buildng into a farmers market or other sort of community gathering place ala Union Station in Washington DC http://www.unionstationdc.com/ with resturants and specialty shops etc. I really did not know it existed.

  20. #95

    Default Re: Union Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    Watch out, you're going to resurrect the ghost of Tom Elmore ....
    Ohhh Nooooo!!

  21. #96

    Default Re: Union Station

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptDave View Post
    The building's location is unfortunate - it really is too bad it couldn't have been used for a rail/transit hub. Santa Fe station is nice enough and will serve the purpose, but Union Station would have been the ideal choice were it not for location. (Geez, I know I may have opened a can of worms but I didn't intend to.)

    I wonder what its eventual use will be once Central Park is in place and redevelopment begins.
    Location was always the problem for a proposed rail hub. It just wasn't practical.

    I'd like to see a restaurant there, ala Tavern on the Green, perhaps some retail and a museum. It would be a great spot for a Saturday Farmer's Market, perhaps with some adjoining food trucks. It would be nice to have a big event space there, as I can certainly envision park weddings. Maybe that should be the site for a Children's Museum, or a space for artist booths where local artists can sell their wares. I can envision myriad options for the space which would allow it to interact with and attract park visitors.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Union Station

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsooner View Post
    WOW! that building has so much potential. I really hope the city maximizes this buildng into a farmers market or other sort of community gathering place ala Union Station in Washington DC Union Station :: 2 West /40 Massachusetts Ave., NE, Washington, DC. 20002 :: (202) 289-1908 with resturants and specialty shops etc. I really did not know it existed.
    I am looking forward to seeing how DC Union Station looks after the renovations. Hopefully, one day OKC will have 1/10 the traffic DC US has presently. OKC US is a great building in the wrong place to be used as our rail/transit hub - most unfortunate. Maybe it will at least be a stop on a future Central OK rail transit system though.

  23. #98

    Default Re: Union Station

    Actually, it is too bad the park is taking up the space around it becasue that would make nice administration and classroom space for Oklahoma City Polytechinc University (which was proposed as part of MAPS III). No word if they would use the name Cow Py for short.

    How cool would a small campus of buildings like that be?

  24. #99

    Default Re: Union Station

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    Actually, it is too bad the park is taking up the space around it becasue that would make nice administration and classroom space for Oklahoma City Polytechinc University (which was proposed as part of MAPS III). No word if they would use the name Cow Py for short.

    How cool would a small campus of buildings like that be?
    Time to take your meds JTF!!

    I think it would be good to have a college campus downtown but not sure that is the best location given the residential development opportunity in the area. What about a university taking up several floors of FNC? I know Pace University had a high rise campus in NYC.

    Crap - i just started a tangent.....

  25. #100

    Default Re: Union Station

    I was thinking of something like Columbia University in NYC or even Georgia Tech in Atlanta.

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