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Thread: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel (dead)

  1. #201

    Default Re: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel?

    Quote Originally Posted by earlywinegareth View Post
    How did I end up in the Transportation and Politics forums??

    I really wish people would make use of Private Messages to go off on tangents.
    Because some people want there to be a convention center on top of where the commuter rail link to MWC and possibly HSR beyond would go. They seem to either oppose the idea and want the convention center to go there to just end the debate once and for all, prompting a transit discussion, or they seem to think that downtown OKC is so limited in available land that we have to make tough decisions we will regret later...for a CONVENTION CENTER. Oy veigh.

  2. #202

    Default Re: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Kerry, how familiar are you with infrastructure spending here in the EU, really? I would encourage you to take another look at the expenditures of the European Commission...specifically, funding for rail projects in Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovenia, Hungary, etc. ;]



    Yes, thanks for the link, Captain Obvious. Too bad Oklahoma isn't even close to having an actual proposal ready for a few more years, or else this might actually affect us. But it is certainly unfortunate for those states that did have shovel-ready proposals like Florida, California, Minnesota, East Coast, etc.

    I'm not trying to "ride" certain posters, so don't take these comments as personal attacks, this is just part of a series where you guys keep pushing flawed ideas..
    i didn't push any "flawed" ideas .. i simply stated the political reality that HSR is doa in oklahoma and in most of the nation for the forseeable future ..

    as an aside .. i am very much for the street car think it will do wonders for central OKC and will have a great ROA i am less concerned with the existing rail because i don't think heavy rail is the right direction for central oklahoma i think new rail light rail is the answer for connecting norman to edmond/ midwest city to yukon .. even the adventure line would be better off with light rail. We could use the existing rail right of way and then have the line come into our new transit hub from the west

    my point is that there are tons of possibilities and picking/not picking the north bricktown site because we would lose potential rail connections (that may not make sense anyway) and or lose HSR connection (that is not coming in the next 20+ years) doesn't sound logical

  3. Default Re: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel?

    Kerry, I don't consider Adams Mark to be a 5-star or even 4-star hotel but they are or were almost exclusively in the convention business, so that is what I'm basing my idea of a convention hotel on.

    It has been a while since I've attended a convention, but when I did the rooms were not on the same level of exclusivity and luxury as those of W, Westin or even most Hyatts. Amenities in Convention Hotels are standard and the rooms are usually convertable with double beds - hardly what I would consider some of the brands you named. Service was geared toward the convention *usually meaning the meeting room(s), ballroom(s), exhibition room(s), and catoring - and hundreds/thousands of continuous rooms.

    This is not the amenity offering I receive when I visit 4+ star Grand Hyatt, Hilton, or W-Hotel in Seattle, let alone the 4.5 star Four Seasons Olympic (Skirvin like) hotel that is nearby but it IS what I see when I visit the Seattle Sheraton [1,200+ room] 'convention' hotel. One thing to note is all of these branded hotels are within a block or so radius from each other and the Washington State Convention Centre (which coincidentally straddles I-5 - so Im sure OKC's convention centre could be made to straddle the rail line). . ...

    I think having a 800+ room Hilton Convention Hotel north of the newly branded 'Conrad Skirvin' would speak very highly of OKC, since Hiltons are usually a solid 4 star.

    One more interesting point for you all to note, the Washington State Convention Center also has a Grand Gateway Arch that spans Pine Street in Seattle, connecting an expansion area to the main centre. I wonder/HOPE this is the idea Marcus is shooting for. ....
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  4. #204

    Default Re: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    i didn't push any "flawed" ideas .. i simply stated the political reality that HSR is doa in oklahoma and in most of the nation for the forseeable future ..

    as an aside .. i am very much for the street car think it will do wonders for central OKC and will have a great ROA i am less concerned with the existing rail because i don't think heavy rail is the right direction for central oklahoma i think new rail light rail is the answer for connecting norman to edmond/ midwest city to yukon .. even the adventure line would be better off with light rail. We could use the existing rail right of way and then have the line come into our new transit hub from the west

    my point is that there are tons of possibilities and picking/not picking the north bricktown site because we would lose potential rail connections (that may not make sense anyway) and or lose HSR connection (that is not coming in the next 20+ years) doesn't sound logical
    Fair enough, I guess it just depends which you consider more important. Having a convention center, or having rail connections. Could we have both? Of course, it seems like it would be infinitely easier to have both if the convention center budged, less likely to have both if we have to cook up some wunderscheme for the rail connections.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel?

    I'm certainly not as informed on the rail matter as it appears others are, but I'm curious as to why this proposed site for the CC would preclude future rail connections. It seems to me that connections could be made at or around the Producers Coop site just South of Downtown. There appear to be plenty of possibilities there and you already have a plethora of rail and easements. If an when it came to pass, this location would also serve to support and accelerate future C2S development.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Skirvin Expansion / Convention Center Hotel?

    I posted this on the Rock Island Rail Corridor thread in Transportation, but it looks like it is equally applicable here:

    The former Rock Island rail corridor (Bricktown Spur) is a critical link for providing effective connectivity to the BNSF line and our future rail transit hub for (1) commuter rail service between Midwest City/Tinker and OKC, (2) Adventure District and N.E. OKC rail transit service, (3) future Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail service between OKC and Tulsa, and (4) potential High-Speed Rail between OKC and Tulsa.

    The Rock Island rail corridor from the BNSF line east of the Oklahoma River is owned by the State. The extension of the line to MWC/Tinker is owned by the State. The extension of the line to the Adventure District and N.E. OKC is owned by COTPA. That makes the corridor and those lines extremely valuable from a rail transit perspective, as establishing commuter rail and other rail transit service does not require lengthy and difficult negotiations with a railroad company. It allows for the saving of millions of dollars in right-of-way acquisition and operational fees that would be required by the railroad companies. More importantly, it allows for the development of the most efficient rail transit service, as it does not require shared operations on an active freight line.

    The success of any rail transit system lives or dies by its ability to provide effective and efficient service. Delays due to shared track operations, complicated line switching and time-consuming back-in/back-out maneuvers create system inefficiency that can make the system ineffective.

    It appears there are several excellent locations for developing a first-class convention center without having to destroy what in my opinion is a critical component of our future rail transit system.

    This isn't simply an HSR issue. The more immediate problem is the detrimental impact on cost-effective, efficient connectivity into the hub for commuter rail service from Midwest City/Tinker.

    As for HSR, ODOT's plans call for "HSR-Express" (completely grade-separated...dedicated right-of-way...speeds in excess of 150 mph) between Oklahoma City and Tulsa. However, the plan provides for "Emerging HSR" between OKC and Dallas. Emerging HSR involves some amount of shared track, improved at-grade crossings and speeds between 90-110 mph.

    ODOT's HSR application submitted to the FRA terminates the HSR-Express line from Tulsa at the end of the Turner Turnpike. From that point, the line becomes Emerging HSR and follows the Adventure Line corridor south to the Bricktown spur, then west onto the BNSF line, then south into the intermodal hub.

    So, if and when we happen to get FRA approval for HSR in Oklahoma, it will not pass through Oklahoma City as HSR-Express on grade-separated, dedicated right-of-way.

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