SoSA District

[windowphobe]

I got a shot from upstairs while the house was still under construction. It was amazing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dustbur...57603408179862

[dwellsokc]

The formal name of this neighborhood is “The Cottage District.” EVERYONE agrees that’s a stupid name, but what should it be? While some nearby neighborhoods are historic districts, this one is definitely a creative district…

If SoSA isn’t the right name, what is? And what’s the process for getting the City to officially change it?

[LakeEffect]

The formal name of this neighborhood is “The Cottage District.” EVERYONE agrees that’s a stupid name, but what should it be? While some nearby neighborhoods are historic districts, this one is definitely a creative district…

If SoSA isn’t the right name, what is? And what’s the process for getting the City to officially change it?

Talk to your councilwoman...

[betts]

I certainly think SoSA suits the neighborhood more than "the Cottage District". That's what everyone I know calls it, and it's short and to the point. It would be confusing to come up with a third designation, IMO.

[Good_lance]

How much does a house ( buy and build) will cost around this area. Just wondering.

[Questor]

I honestly can't wrap my brain around this area. It's officially called the cottage district, but after driving around the area a weekend or two ago I want to say it is actually an early American craftsman style (I don't remember seeing anything I would call a cottage), there's a whole lot of blight, and a weird mix of a bunch of different styles and I guess a difference of opinion on whether or not its even supposed to be called the cottage district or SoSA. As slow as some of the more well known areas downtown like Deep Deuce have taken to develop, I honestly don't think I'd want to go near this place because I am afraid I'd be stuck there for 20 years. Redevelopment moves slow here compared to other cities... it is a major stumbling block for me. Yes some areas like Midtown have come to life, but I want to say that the first time its coming redevelopment was mentioned was half a lifetime ago. I wish Steve or someone would do a story on that... what's it going to take to speed things up? Is it just a matter of our population being too small?

Also what's with the blown-out looking old school at Klein and 8th? Is that thing still in operation, or is it abandoned? I am not sure which would be worse. Anyway, driving by it I wondered if it was still city or state owned, and if so why they aren't being pushed to clean the area up?

[Frustratedoptimist]

Questor - That school is active and the entire campus indeed needs an overhaul. Anyone know if its slated for MAPS improvements?

[kevinpate]

I'm confused. I thought the old school on Klein between 8th and 9th was the admin. offices for the OKC schools. Is there also an operational school adjacent?

[dwellsokc]

I'm confused. I thought the old school on Klein between 8th and 9th was the admin. offices for the OKC schools. Is there also an operational school adjacent?

Emerson School is undergoing renovation now...

[dwellsokc]

... I honestly don't think I'd want to go near this place because I am afraid I'd be stuck there for 20 years...

Property value has more than doubled in the last 5 years. Tear-downs, and lots are going for $75K. At least five new projects will be breaking ground within a year... If you were to build something here for resale value, rather than for YOUR value, you'd deserve to be stuck with it for 20 years!

[Questor]

So that sentiment is pretty much why our entire economy collapsed five years ago... Call me crazy but I just happen to think that even if you plan to live in a house for quite some time you need to be thinking about the financial aspects of that transaction.

Doubling in 5 years sounds good, and it is, but it's not that good. It comes out to 15% a year. OKC's average appreciation rate, according to a website I found, was 7.58% over the same period of time. So SoSA was double. So on a home that sells for $200k the difference between those two rates is 14k or about $2900 a year. Is that worth the added risks of that area... Crime, instability, redevelopment disruption, etc.? To me... No. Especially when there are parts of Edmond experiencing those same kind of appreciation rates.

So I'm just pointing this out because I don't think economics is a selling point at all for this area. What it really is is the promise of a hip community, fun and interesting things to do, and so on. The problem is I don't see that there and don't believe it will significantly develop in the next few years. So if its not a better investment than the suburbs, and it doesn't have anything going on really compared to other urban areas, and the area at least feels like it has crime nearby, then I just don't understand the appeal. Maybe I just don't get it.

[dankrutka]

Doubling in 5 years sounds good, and it is, but it's not that good. It comes out to 15% a year. OKC's average appreciation rate, according to a website I found, was 7.58% over the same period of time. So SoSA was double. So on a home that sells for $200k the difference between those two rates is 14k or about $2900 a year. Is that worth the added risks of that area... Crime, instability, redevelopment disruption, etc.? To me... No. Especially when there are parts of Edmond experiencing those same kind of appreciation rates.

So I'm just pointing this out because I don't think economics is a selling point at all for this area. What it really is is the promise of a hip community, fun and interesting things to do, and so on. The problem is I don't see that there and don't believe it will significantly develop in the next few years. So if its not a better investment than the suburbs, and it doesn't have anything going on really compared to other urban areas, and the area at least feels like it has crime nearby, then I just don't understand the appeal.

First, it seems like you actually laid out that the economics are a selling point for this area. The value of the house factors in all those things you mentioned and it is still a nice value. Secondly, you then you said it wasn't better than other urban areas for entertainment so... why not live in Edmond? Uh, apples to oranges. People moving here do not likely want to live in Edmond. It seems like the appeal is that you get to build your own dream house (not apartment) in an emerging neighborhood (with arguably the most interesting architecture in the metro) right next to downtown and midtown, which are hip entertainment areas. You may not see the appeal, but reading your post brought it all out for me...

[soonerguru]

So that sentiment is pretty much why our entire economy collapsed five years ago... Call me crazy but I just happen to think that even if you plan to live in a house for quite some time you need to be thinking about the financial aspects of that transaction.

Doubling in 5 years sounds good, and it is, but it's not that good. It comes out to 15% a year. OKC's average appreciation rate, according to a website I found, was 7.58% over the same period of time. So SoSA was double. So on a home that sells for $200k the difference between those two rates is 14k or about $2900 a year. Is that worth the added risks of that area... Crime, instability, redevelopment disruption, etc.? To me... No. Especially when there are parts of Edmond experiencing those same kind of appreciation rates.

So I'm just pointing this out because I don't think economics is a selling point at all for this area. What it really is is the promise of a hip community, fun and interesting things to do, and so on. The problem is I don't see that there and don't believe it will significantly develop in the next few years. So if its not a better investment than the suburbs, and it doesn't have anything going on really compared to other urban areas, and the area at least feels like it has crime nearby, then I just don't understand the appeal. Maybe I just don't get it.

Do not like.

[Questor]

Kilgore, the area is dilapidated. No other word for it. The number of people living in the area who are not dirt poor is tiny. I'm not deliberately trying to tear down the area, really I'm not, I'm just honestly kind of miffed about always hearing about how great this area is, and then actually seeing it and being mortified by it. It's like constantly hearing about how great Saints is or all the stores around it... when it's like in a tiny strip mall with maybe four other functioning businesses, surrounded by streets that look like you'd probably get killed walking down them alone at night. Honestly I'm aggravated because I'm tired of people always being so unrealistic about this area... Most of them not even living within a thousand miles of the place.

The point of the comparison to Edmond was missed. My point was if you have the exact same appreciation in two neighborhoods, one of which is stable and nearly guaranteed to go up, and the other is a complete wild card, then why would one go with the higher risk option especially when it is not going to yield a higher return at this point... They are the same. So the point was if you're only looking at it from a financial standpoint, then the decision is not good business.

I could handle it all a lot better if people were just realistic about the area and told the whole story. It's a transitional neighborhood that is just barely beginning its transition....

[Questor]

Do not like.

Why, what specifically do you not like? I'm listening... Explain to me why I should like this neighborhood?

[RodH]

Why, what specifically do you not like? I'm listening... Explain to me why I should like this neighborhood?

You seem to have made it clear that this area does not appeal to you and that is okay. There is a reason that there are a variety of places to live. Edmond appeals to a lot of people for a variety of reasons. Downtown appeals to some people for different reasons. It is okay to like one place and not another. That does not mean that the places that do not have value to you do not have value. It is also true that the things you value may not have the same value to everyone. The character of SoSA appeals to some people and they are happy with what it offers. If you cannot discern that appeal you probably would do well to avoid the area because you are more likely to be unhappy there. That does make the area any less appealing to those that value what is there. You just have different likes and that is wonderfully okay. Hopefully, we all find something we like that we can be happy with.

[dankrutka]

I honestly believe that SoSA is a far better investment for the reasons you named. This area will improve greatly and that will greatly increase the value of the houses and properties in that area. If you're paying attention to trends in this, and surrounding areas, then you see an obvious trend.

You also seem to be really scared of these areas, but I've been in both areas and they're not nearly as bad as you describe, especially the Plaza Diatrict. Have you lived in urban areas much?

[dwellsokc]

...Maybe I just don't get it.

Bingo! (It's called paradigm lock, and irrational fear.)

(Before building in SoSA, we lived in Yukon... cover page of Suburbia Magazine. We were broken into, and vandalized on several occasions. Going on five years in SoSA, and not a single incident of crime. I was surprised at how the authenticity of this area outshines the plasticity of suburbia (and how my gasoline bill was divided by 4!).) KT is right... everyplace isn't for everyone.

[Bellaboo]

SOSA has a great downtown view, but that's about it for me. To each his own.

[HangryHippo]

Everyplace isn't for everyone.

This is correct.

[Spartan]

Questor, I don't think you understand SoSA, especially if you call it dilapidated and crime-ridden. Would I walk around there at night right now? Probably not.. but since building modern homes has caught fire in the neighborhood, it's become evident that this is not "the Cottage District" but rather SoSA and nothing else. The historic housing stock in there is mostly worthless old shacks. And comparing it to Edmond is laughable.. anyone who wants Edmond should just chose Edmond. Many prominent OKC people, including successful architects, Gazette publisher Bill Bleakley, meteorologist Mike Morgan, and many more are building homes in SoSA.

[Questor]

Good grief guys I did not compare the place to Edmond in the sense you are making it out to be. I grew up in an urban neighborhood. Sosa, today at least, feels like anything but. Compared to virtually any other area in downtown undergoing redevelopment this area doesn't match up in the categories of available infrastructure, businesses, community, safety, or readily available housing. Not today.

I can understand the folks who have basically said they see this neighborhood headed to something greater than it currently is and are banking on that. Or someone who just likes the views and doesn't care. A lot of the rest of the stuff I've heard I think is just unrealistic. But that's a general problem I have with most of the discussions on this message board. Such as not agreeing that the area is dilapidated when, in fact, most of what is going on down there involves either the condemnation or private destruction of existing structures which are in disrepair. Literally the textbook definition of.

Honestly I regret I even bothered to ask what the draw to this place is. I haven't really heard anything I didn't already suspect and its just put you all in attack mode. Sorry if you thought I called your baby ugly.

[betts]

I thought about buying a lot or some property there. What appealed to me was the view, proximity to downtown, SOME of the new housing going in, a few of the old houses, proximity to Midtown, prospect of being close to the new school, the ability to have a tiny patch of grass without having to care for a huge yard, the possibility of a pool, which I don't have now. I think it's an up and coming area and if I had small children, I'd be looking hard there.

[HangryHippo]

Good grief guys I did not compare the place to Edmond in the sense you are making it out to be. I grew up in an urban neighborhood. Sosa, today at least, feels like anything but. Compared to virtually any other area in downtown undergoing redevelopment this area doesn't match up in the categories of available infrastructure, businesses, community, safety, or readily available housing. Not today.

I can understand the folks who have basically said they see this neighborhood headed to something greater than it currently is and are banking on that. Or someone who just likes the views and doesn't care. A lot of the rest of the stuff I've heard I think is just unrealistic. But that's a general problem I have with most of the discussions on this message board. Such as not agreeing that the area is dilapidated when, in fact, most of what is going on down there involves either the condemnation or private destruction of existing structures which are in disrepair. Literally the textbook definition of.

Honestly I regret I even bothered to ask what the draw to this place is. I haven't really heard anything I didn't already suspect and its just put you all in attack mode. Sorry if you thought I called your baby ugly.

Other than the views of downtown, I don't really understand the draw of this area either.

[CaptDave]

I defintely need to look harder at this area. I have focused on Deep Deuce, Midtown, and a hopeful vision of C2S thus far. Anyone know what an average lot goes for presently?