Uptown / 23rd District

[IanMcDermid]

We might just have to get used to the scenario that there's no fast E-W in the core.

[Pete]

We might just have to get used to the scenario that there's no fast E-W in the core.

Right.

And that's it's unreasonable to expect to drive fast through the center of the urban grid.

[Canoe]

The influence of Mesta continually surprises me. 13th is already a super highway. I say we make it practice to speed through the hood blasting old school gangster rap, windows down, after dark.

'We spending most our lives living in a hispster's paradise.'

[Paseofreak]

It is quite remarkable to see who will drive how far to go to the Pump. Those folks ain't from around here.

[soonerguru]

Rover's contributions to this forum never cease to make me chuckle. They seem hostile on the surface, but he's always quick to say he's not REALLY disagreeing with the urbanist perspective here. But it's as if he has to hold his nose to "agree." And yet, there is a noticeable argumentativeness to all of his positions. There is always a less-than-subtle pushback inherent in all of his scolding bromides that indicates he is not aligned with folks here. It is entertaining and somewhat baffling at the same time.

[turnpup]

We might just have to get used to the scenario that there's no fast E-W in the core.

Very good point!

If one desires rapid E-W anywhere near the core, it'll have to be I-40 or I-44 (Belle Isle). I'm discovering this through experience. My trips to downtown on 16th, for example, can take either 7 minutes or 15, depending on the stop lights, cars in front of me or city buses making their stops. The same holds true with 23rd. And as far as NW 23rd/Uptown area goes, it's about more than jaywalkers. Yesterday I discovered the treacherous parallel parking in front of the Lillian Strickler lighting store. Had to wait until absolutely nothing was coming before I could safely open my car door to exit. I'm just fortunate that I happened to look in the rearview mirror to see how there was absolutely not leeway or room between my open door and the traffic lane. It's a caution area for sure.

[bradh]

It is quite remarkable to see who will drive how far to go to the Pump. Those folks ain't from around here.

I haven't made it yet (sorry Ian) but add me to that list when I do.

[Rover]

Rover's contributions to this forum never cease to make me chuckle. They seem hostile on the surface, but he's always quick to say he's not REALLY disagreeing with the urbanist perspective here. But it's as if he has to hold his nose to "agree." And yet, there is a noticeable argumentativeness to all of his positions. There is always a less-than-subtle pushback inherent in all of his scolding bromides that indicates he is not aligned with folks here. It is entertaining and somewhat baffling at the same time.

Not sure why you want to make it personal, but okay.

It seems as if some want a singular point of view.

After many, many years of working around projects in urban areas all over the country and the world, I guess I tend to look at things not quite so dogmatically. Anyone can see that 23rd area is a disaster. Not sure it has to be compounded by pedestrians not being smart either. But apparently it isn't cool to be critical of bad behavior if it is of a certain group. It takes no insight to see that this city lacks maturity when trying to deal with the issue of pedestrian rights. Commenting on how the pedestrians need to do their part as well isn't contrary and I wouldn't have thought controversial. BTW, quoting urbanist mantras doesn't make one an urbanist either. DOING urbanist things does.

[IanMcDermid]

It is quite remarkable to see who will drive how far to go to the Pump. Those folks ain't from around here.

I wouldn't go as far as to disagree with you. But, you should see the night time foot and bicycle trafic coming down walker to the rise. I for one get pretty excited about it. now if we could just get a continuos sidewalk and a bike lane striped! oh and these could go away.

[Uptowner]

I talked to someone at the city today: they said that a plan to re-do the "uptown" section 23rd is being put together. I'm assuming to lump in addition to the plan that's been submitted by mesta's traffic engineers, TEC, that chokes up Shartel even more and essentially creates a ring road interstate around Mesta. HH must have pitched in a few dollars, they want to put a stop sign on every N-S block of walker to stem traffic from midtown to uptown, make Robinson a two way and pull out the stops on Robinson. I guess in this case it's LESS money, mo problems. Wouldn't it be sweet if the street car final plan added a walker avenue line from 13th to 23rd? It probably would make a viable route given the surge as far as funding. I didn't ask. It wouldn't be out of the question to siphon off maps 3 money if the neighbors can convince the right people it's about "walkability." No plans for the paseo that I could find out about. Which actually needs sidewalks and ramps like pictured above.

[Anonymous.]

23rd street as pertaining to the actual street, needs to be nuked. Salvage the brick and median trees and repave in concrete. Two vehicle lanes both ways with parallel parking inside a curbed bike lane. While it is happening, might as well lay down streetcar rails. My only fear is hurting business along this corridor during construction. /pipedream

But let's face it, the street is garbage and there is little to no pedestrian or bike friendly routes, which is inexcusable for being in the center of a neighborhood.

[AP]

Rover's contributions to this forum never cease to make me chuckle. They seem hostile on the surface, but he's always quick to say he's not REALLY disagreeing with the urbanist perspective here. But it's as if he has to hold his nose to "agree." And yet, there is a noticeable argumentativeness to all of his positions. There is always a less-than-subtle pushback inherent in all of his scolding bromides that indicates he is not aligned with folks here. It is entertaining and somewhat baffling at the same time.

+1

[shawnw]

I talked to someone at the city today: they said that a plan to re-do the "uptown" section 23rd is being put together. I'm assuming to lump in addition to the plan that's been submitted by mesta's traffic engineers, TEC, that chokes up Shartel even more and essentially creates a ring road interstate around Mesta. HH must have pitched in a few dollars, they want to put a stop sign on every N-S block of walker to stem traffic from midtown to uptown, make Robinson a two way and pull out the stops on Robinson. I guess in this case it's LESS money, mo problems. Wouldn't it be sweet if the street car final plan added a walker avenue line from 13th to 23rd? It probably would make a viable route given the surge as far as funding. I didn't ask. It wouldn't be out of the question to siphon off maps 3 money if the neighbors can convince the right people it's about "walkability." No plans for the paseo that I could find out about. Which actually needs sidewalks and ramps like pictured above.

LONG before the route was finalized, our own Sid Burgess was pushing for the streetcar route to go up Walker all the way to 23rd so that it would immediately connect with neighborhoods and give people destinations rather than just being a circulator...

[Uptowner]

Salvage the brick and median trees and repave in concrete. Two vehicle lanes both ways with parallel parking inside a curbed bike lane.

You just described the street exactly the way it already is. Plus a bike lane that takes space from where? The parking should go away. For extended sidewalks. The tower guys peeled back their fence this week and revealed a widened sidewalk. It looks/feel right. The median. While pretty. Doesn't DO anything. There's your space for a bike lane. May peace be with you if you try to cycle on 23rd.

Don't streetcar lanes see a reduction in stops? Wouldn't that make the traffic even faster?

FYI the "brick" is molded and stained concrete.

[PhiAlpha]

The influence of Mesta continually surprises me. 13th is already a super highway. I say we make it practice to speed through the hood blasting old school gangster rap, windows down, after dark.

Yeah please don't endorse that kind of crap... There are plenty of people, if not most, in our neighborhood that support all the development, including yours, going on around us. The vocal minority makes that hard to believe sometimes. Doing something like you suggest would only prove them right and give them more of a voice.

As far as the plan goes, I'm in agreement with all of it with exception to anything that involves removing lights on 13th or 23rd. I think all the additional stop signs they plan to install should do enough to reduce speeds through the area.

[catch22]

You just described the street exactly the way it already is. Plus a bike lane that takes space from where? The parking should go away. For extended sidewalks. The tower guys peeled back their fence this week and revealed a widened sidewalk. It looks/feel right. The median. While pretty. Doesn't DO anything. There's your space for a bike lane. May peace be with you if you try to cycle on 23rd.

Don't streetcar lanes see a reduction in stops? Wouldn't that make the traffic even faster?

FYI the "brick" is molded and stained concrete.

removing on street parking would be a huge mistake. It shields the sidewalk from the street, reduces the pace of vehicular traffic, while also curbing the need for expansive and unsightly surface lots on prime property.

[Spartan]

I agree that the street parking is important, but it would make a lot of sense for the curb to bump out at intersections or in front of the Tower, etc., even if that takes a few spaces away.

The median may need to come out.... especially because 23rd should be a transit corridor, as seemingly everyone in this thread has suggested already.

[Paseofreak]

Perhaps in this particular case, the bicycles belong on 22nd or 24th for the majority of their east/west journey. I hate for cyclists to be displaced, but they are the most movable element on an already crowded and dangerous thoroughfare. It's got to be much safer.

[Spartan]

Movable yes, but they are also the most beneficial ingredient. If you give bikes a prominent space in 23rd's streetscape, it will be a vibrant presence.

It will create sense of place. We have a "challenge," and not a "problem." OKC needs more place and less "fixes" here and there.

[Paseofreak]

Then it's one car lane in each direction if the sidewalks are to be right-sized too. There isn't safe room to open the traffic side door of parked cars as it is. But that'll never happen in my lifetime.

[Spartan]

I think one dedicated traffic lane would work, and then the median actually serves a vital function of preventing left-hand turns so that traffic actually would flow smoothly.

I wonder in the future if there is a way we could do a joint streetcar-bicycle lane..

[Uptowner]

I think Mcdermid was joking about "blasting the hood", or at least I hope.

I counted the street spaces from the aerial view and see 75 between Broadway and Shartel. I don't think would bring ultimate RUIN to the area if your talking about adding bike lanes and widening sidewalks. Honestly it feels like, and I don't know if anyone of us here are traffic engineers, anyone? Bueller? It feels like a single lane of traffic could work with no left turns (you can't make a solid median because you really do have to have cross street traffic...or maybe not? That would be the answer to all mesta's woes.) with street parking, widened sidewalks, AND a bike lane. Then again, if your talking single lane with parallel spaces. It would be disastrous to reverse into a space.

[ljbab728]

I would be very happy with no median, one lane in each direction, one bicycle lane, and on street parking. I see no great need for the median. The sidewalks aren't wide in some areas but I don't see that as a major concern even if it would be better.

[Paseofreak]

In it's current state it can be harrowing to drive. Traffic must adjust to perceive collision or other threats by veering two or three feet into the adjacent lanes while endeavering maintaining a speed of 30-35 mph (posted at 30) because they want to make the light. It desperately needs help. Sooner rather than later.

[Spartan]

I would be very happy with no median, one lane in each direction, one bicycle lane, and on street parking. I see no great need for the median. The sidewalks aren't wide in some areas but I don't see that as a major concern even if it would be better.

Wide plaza-like sidewalks really do help support local retail.

This is just something I realized recently. It's about finding the difference between an okay shopping street like N Broadway and a great shopping street like NW 16.

Just food for thought. As for median.. Bike lanes.. Streetcar.. Wide sidewalks.. On-street parking. Yeah I'd love for NW 23 to have all that and more. We may not be able to get it all, but one thing that helps is knowing the two things we DONT need: 4 lanes of thru-traffic and left-turns into Mesta or J Park.