Choctaw Town Square

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

OGTS, you're not addressing the social implication points that Sid brought up though. So are you just saying, "That's the way we like it and damn be the consequences to our elderly or children who cannot be independent"?

You sound like someone who has lived in the area for awhile. I would venture to guess that your grandparents or the first generation of citizens in Choctaw didn't want to have to venture long distances for necessities. Personally, I think when people claim the need to have open space that it is a defense mechanism of not wanting to deal with the problems of the world or social issues. Interaction with other
humans on a human scale produces results and solutions instead of isolationism and fear.

You're right, I didn't address the social implications that Sid brought up...Mainly because I don't have an answer. It's a complicated issue that I've never researched. It's not going to be fixed by cramming a WalMart into a tiny space, moving City Hall, and spending millions on 100 year plan for a real town center in Choctaw OK...I can tell you that.

And WOW...You assumed a whole LOT wrong.

I grew up in Moore. I've lived in downtown San Diego as well as downtown Denver (suburb too). I've also lived in SE OKC, Mustang, and now Choctaw. When I say I prefer it, it's because I prefer it. I've only lived here for around 3 years (and nobody in my family that I know of has ever lived here). Defense mechanism? Whatever. Do I SOUND like I have a problem dealing with issues? I'm quite the vocal SOB with my opinions. Fear? I've got a fear of my wife, that's about it. Maybe demon-possessed wood chippers, but they're loud and thereby easy to avoid.

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Good observation and catch. Perhaps I was projecting a little.

If I could rephrase that, I'd say that I don't want to tell people how they should live. I'd like to protect the dignity of how I prefer to live. Specifically from what I saw as, factless claims.

I grew up in a town almost exactly like Choctaw, so I do get the difference. As a councilman in Haskell, I certainly get more exposed to opinions like the one you hold. One citizen actually voiced the opinion that they didn't want the city to grow at all. Not a single new business, he said.

I'll try in future responses to not take the conversation so personal and falsely assume it is personal where it isn't.

Nah, take it personal when it's directed at you. Live a little. Lash out online.

No wait...You used your real name. Don't do that.

And if you don't want to tell people how to live, why are you in this thread doing exactly that? I mean...You talk about how great living in a thriving urban core is...That's fine, sell it baby! But when people say "that's not how I want to live", and this thread is about a pretty rural WalMart (of all things), forcing the issue is going to go nowhere fast. That's like a Mormon knocking on the door of a Jehovah's Witness and trying to convince them how great it will be to live as a star.

Yeah, hyperbole much

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

Lol! I tried (maybe failed) to separate the issue. I was trying to correct statements about how difficult it was to live 'urban' and second to shed a little light on the fact that Choctaw certainly could pull off something urban if it wanted to.

The thread didn't start off about Wal-Mart if I recall. Which is why I subscribed to it. It was about a new development that to me, was intriguing because of the "rural", yet urban nature of it.

Build urban baby, build urban!

There, happy? ;-)

It's all good...And I have to admit that I didn't recall the beginning of the thread, I hadn't looked at it in probably a year (whenever my last post on it was), all I saw was people bemoaning sprawl and talking about people needing to walk more in a pretty rural area. And I had an extra 10 minutes, so I went to town, so to speak.

And yeah! Build urban! In OKC! It's nice to visit...And to take pictures of! ;-)

[Just the facts]

Out of curoisty - what do you like about living in Choctaw?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

My space. I'm noisy, and I like quiet. So...In order to not offend people with loud noises while not being offended by their loud noises when I'm done, I moved to a place where there's a massive air buffer between our air tools and noisy toys.

I'm also a car guy, so I wanted space to build a workshop. I now have a place to make all the loud noises I want at all hours without worry of waking up somebody's baby or giving them a bad night.

[Just the facts]

How would a compact development centered around Main St negativley impact you more than a WalMart shopping center at 23rd and Henney?

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

How would a compact development centered around Main St negativley impact you more than a WalMart shopping center at 23rd and Henney?

Me personally? Well, I don't like walking for one. It hurts too much.

And there's really no point in making it compact in this area. You've yet to give me a good reason why it should be compact other than your opinions on how other people should conduct their lives and OMG URBAN SPRAWL.

[Just the facts]

You don't have to walk. You can still drive your car. I am just trying to find out why you prefer one over the other because clearly you are not indifferent on the subject. Also, if you are shopping at WalMart walking can't be an issue because the stores are huge, with an even bigger parking lot

[Oh GAWD the Smell!]

If my wife hands me a grocery list that's more than one row long, I make two trips to the store, a day apart. I'm in pain after about 30 minutes of walking.

However, my reasons are pretty irrelevant when you still haven't given me a valid reason why they should cramp it down and deviate from their norm (see: spent a lot more money than they need to in order to service the area) when they don't have to.

[Just the facts]

Actually, the urban design we favor is cheaper to build, maintain, and support. That's why for 15,000 years of Human civilization they were built that way. It wasn't until government intervention after WWII was the type of development being built now even possible. Low density development requires a massive amount of public funds to support it. Look at the land costs alone - they are taking 30+ acres to do what they could accomplish on 10 acres and they made the City of Choctaw buy the land. Taxpayer in Choctaw are already out millions of dollars before the place even opens. From a cost stand point it would have better for Choctaw to buy 10 acres and tell the developer to build a central parking deck (that could have been used by neighboring future developments so new parking didn't have to be built at all).

[bombermwc]

Oh good lord...you know what, this is the point where i just put my face in my hands and walk away. Neither side is getting anywhere here and i'm not interested in continuing an argument with a brick wall....peace out yo.

[mmonroe]

Not to mention... this is the Midwest City / Del City thread... not choctaw...

[BoulderSooner]

If the 5 lanes aren't needed, then why did they spend the money making it 5 lanes?

not a state highway ... a federal highway ... route 62 from New york to el paso http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_62#Oklahoma

because it was one of the major east west roads across the united states ... before I40 existed ... my great grandfather and grandfather owned a service station on highway 62 in harrah .. and it was a major truck route

[BoulderSooner]

Actually, the urban design we favor is cheaper to build, maintain, and support. That's why for 15,000 years of Human civilization they were built that way. It wasn't until government intervention after WWII was the type of development being built now even possible. Low density development requires a massive amount of public funds to support it. Look at the land costs alone - they are taking 30+ acres to do what they could accomplish on 10 acres and they made the City of Choctaw buy the land. Taxpayer in Choctaw are already out millions of dollars before the place even opens. From a cost stand point it would have better for Choctaw to buy 10 acres and tell the developer to build a central parking deck (that could have been used by neighboring future developments so new parking didn't have to be built at all).

your out of touch here ... this is such a no brainer i don't know where to start ... this will make the City of choctaw Millions and millions of taxes dollars in the next 30 years ... one of the best choices that they have made ..



and as far as land use ... the choice wasn't A or B it was A or leave the big empty land empty ..

[Just the facts]

nm

At the end of the day none of this really matters since the project is already under construction. I just hope that next time small communities think twice before making the same mistakes so many other communites have made.

[Plutonic Panda]

Mustang Times, Walmart finalizes land purchase in Choctaw

[bombermwc]

That's odd that it was in the Mustang Times and not Eastword or something....

[plmccordj]

If you look at the heading of the web site it says Tuttle Times, Mustang Times, Minco-Union City Times AND Choctaw Times. If you want to see what Eastword says, here is the link...

Coming soon to Choctaw - Eastword News - Midwest City, OK

[plmccordj]

Choctaw Town Square is suing the city

Choctaw center developer files suit over finance plan | News OK

[bombermwc]

There has to be more going on with this story than is said here. You don't have something that's had this many layers to it without something weird happening after this long. What should have been a quick project has been incredibly slow.

[Corndog1]

So is this thing dead now? Sure Williams is happy about this not happening.

[Just the facts]

With a $9.6 million up front cost to the City of Choctaw I wonder how many years away the break-even point was.

[Plutonic Panda]

Soooooo, it is dead?

[John1744]

If it's not dead all these suits aren't helping. Choctaw filed a counter suit against the developers.

Fraud countersuit filed against Choctaw developer - Eastword News - Midwest City, OK

[WilliamTell]

Im actually happy about this. There is a relatively new super walmart just a few miles down the highway, we dont need another one.