OKC Chamber now supporting grocery store wine/beer sales

[okcpulse]

Okay you guys need to cool it on partisan politics. The issue here is about beer and wine sales, not stem cell research, or Republicans or Democrats. If you're so worked up about it, take your issues over to the political thread. This kind of crap is exactly why America no longer has the intellectual maturity to handle partisan politics.

[TheTravellers]

Guru? Somebody p*ss in your Wheaties? You sound pretty crazy in your comment. Your name-calling is un-called-for and makes you an embarrassment to the usual civility of this category. Governor Fallin deserves some respect. You are officially on my "ignore" list.

Not caught up with her history, what has she done to earn/deserve respect? Just being Governor doesn't qualify, IMO.

It is nice to see others that think OK's environment is potentially harmful to business (and citizen) relocation to the state, it's what I've been saying for a while, but had little support until now, thanks.

[king183]

This dumb ho said today she cares about creating jobs, but she'll sign every nutcase right-wing POS legislation that crosses her desk. I can't believe she's such a B-TCH she couldn't even be bothered to comment on or offer condolences to the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona, who served as her colleague in the House. God help Oklahoma, it's going to get bad. They'll ban stem cell research as a start and then she will sign every nutty bill the wingers send her. This is the kind of thing that could actually negatively impact OKC's development.

Geez...your tone shows you're probably just as bad as those you criticize. Calm down.

[OKCMallen]

This dumb ho said today she cares about creating jobs, but she'll sign every nutcase right-wing POS legislation that crosses her desk. I can't believe she's such a B-TCH she couldn't even be bothered to comment on or offer condolences to the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona, who served as her colleague in the House. God help Oklahoma, it's going to get bad. They'll ban stem cell research as a start and then she will sign every nutty bill the wingers send her. This is the kind of thing that could actually negatively impact OKC's development.

Egad, man!

[king183]

I'm just furious that she wouldn't even take the time to issue a press statement after one of her colleagues was gunned down in an assassination attempt. Perhaps you were at her pray-in this morning but I'm not a fan of Fallin's -- at all. She has no class.

Furious?! Pay attention and stop depending on Daily Kos for your news. She issued several statements and comments on the matter. Simply check her Twitter feed and Facebook page to see them.

[Larry OKC]

Slightly in defense of soonerguru, I did check Governor Fallins official state site and didn't find any mention (press release etc). But as others have pointed out, she has addressed the situation in interviews and other means.

[kevinpate]

Okay you guys need to cool it on partisan politics. The issue here is about beer and wine sales, not stem cell research, or Republicans or Democrats. If you're so worked up about it, take your issues over to the political thread. This kind of crap is exactly why America no longer has the intellectual maturity to handle partisan politics.

Gotta admit, you make a fine point. And so, to lead us back to the original discussion, perhaps Tom T. Hall's apssion for the brew can assist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_oo6I54iTg

[taoseno]

The point is that our state's liquor laws are antiquated and should be changed. A large majority of states allow beer and wine sales in grocery stores.

The sale of wine and strong beer at grocery stores will lead to the entry of better grocery stores in our state, which combined with other goods and services, draws more people and jobs to our states. We should support, not discourage, the elimination of antiquated laws that have a negative impact on our state's economic development.

[Bunty]

Then people might as well write to their legislators telling them they support changing the law to allow wine sales in liquor in grocery stores and other changes needed as you see fit. They might need stronger impression that there's citizen demand for such legislation. It would also be good to make an appointment for face to face meetings with them in their offices. Oklahoma City area people probably need to appreciate better that the State Capitol just happens to be a short drive away.

[Pete]

The sale of wine and strong beer at grocery stores will lead to the entry of better grocery stores in our state

I think this is a very good point.

Just read an article (link below) about the grocery market in OKC and for a city it's size, it is more dominated by one company (Wal-Mart) than any other. The combination of their super centers, neighborhood groceries and Sam's Clubs gives them about 60% (!!) of the market. And as a result, drives locals either out of business due to their buying power and low prices, or it forces them to match them, like Crest.

So, the end result is that grocery prices are quite low but none of the mid- to upper-end grocers will even try to come into Oklahoma City. It's no coincidence that the city has almost zero nicer stores. (I bet WF still wouldn't be building here except for incentives from Chesapeake.)

But there is good money to be made through beer and wine sales and that may be a way in for some of these other companies. Variety and quality is desperately needed.

http://supermarketnews.com/retail_fi...115/index.html

[king183]

Then people might as well write to their legislators telling them they support changing the law to allow wine sales in liquor in grocery stores and other changes needed as you see fit. They might need stronger impression that there's citizen demand for such legislation. It would also be good to make an appointment for face to face meetings with them in their offices. Oklahoma City area people probably need to appreciate better that the State Capitol just happens to be a short drive away.

This is exactly right. Writing and going into their offices are very effective means of communicating what you want changed...IF you do it right.

I can tell you, thus far, I've spoken to four legislators face-to-face recently about this issue (3 Republicans and 1 Democrat). Of those four, three were entirely supportive of changing the laws and one was hesitant, though not opposed. The one that was hesitant was a Republican who worried about drunk driving increases and alcohol abuse. He could definitely be persuaded--something I will continue to try to do.

The most effective way I have found, regardless of party, is talk to the legislator about removing government restriction on consumer choice and the inconsistencies in the law. That applies to legislators of both parties. (Caution: that was most effective talking to legislators from my area--use your best judgment when deciding what points to use with your own legislator.)

Follow up any face-to-face meeting with a letter or email. Thank them for speaking with you. I used to work at the capitol and can tell you exactly what you shouldn't do when writing a legislator: 1) Don't send mass form e-mails. They are very easy to identify, and they won't be read. They are entirely ineffective. We received these all the time from state employees or special interest groups--they were generally deleted upon receipt.

2) Be polite, especially when you disagree with the legislator. The legislator I worked for once had controversial legislation that prompted a flood of emails. The ones that were vitriolic and just plain rude had no positive effect whatsoever on him and only made him more hardened in his position. In other words, they may have made the writer feel good, but they had the opposite of the intended effect vis-a-vis the actual policy change. Those emails that were polite, sincere, well-written, and acknowledged the good intention of the legistor, but which also disagreed with his goal were the most effective. He (and others) actually took time to read them and respond individually. In the end, his legislation was altered because of those who showed genuine, polite disagreement made in good faith.

3) Take their concerns seriously. I know a lot of people are cynical about politicians, but many legislators are genuinely concerned about certain aspects of a policy change. The best way to respond is not to ridicule them, but to address their concerns politely. For example, the legislator who was hesitant to support a law change genuinely was concerned about drunk driving increases and alcohol abuse--he didn't just say it because it's a popular anti-drinking talking point. So the best way is to show him the statistics that show his concern may not come to fruition based on what other states have seen and then thank him for reviewing them.

All of this may seem like common sense to us, but I can't tell you how many emails and letters we got that were hateful and mean-- and therefore discarded and ineffective.

So, please contact your legislator and take the time to meet with him or her about getting this law changed. Despite any cynical feelings you may have, it is effective. And it will make you more credible with him in future meetings--he'll understand you care and you vote. You may pleasantly surprised.

[NickFiggins]

Huh? I remember the Chamber being against the ban on embryonic stem cell research that was almost passed a while back. Either way, never a good idea to have laws on the books that can lock up doctors doing research for the benefit of living humans. Not the message you want to send to the medical research industry.

The chamber is against the ban, however Sen. Russell has a new bill this session doing the same thing. The major difference is that in 2009 it failed to get enough votes to override Henry's veto. Now it is unlikely that Fallin would veto it, and even in the unlikely event she did, the change in the legislature would cause an override vote to pass, think Crutchfield to Simpson, Leftwich to Shortey, Corn to Allen etc.

For all of those who think this is unrelated to the chamber's ability to reform alcohol laws, you really don't understand legislative processes. If the chamber has to put a full court press to defend some of the city's highest paying jobs that are in biotech (which is really important for economic diversity) then they can't spend the time pushing for reform of alcohol laws. Also the new cast of characters is even more opposed. Its not really a partisan issue as much as just typical legislative politics.

[urbanity]

Two viewpoints on this issue:

Point: Revise outmoded liquor laws

Counterpoint: Paying the price

[J. Pitman]

My beer is ruined when I buy it at room temperature.

[SouthsideSooner]

My beer is ruined when I buy it at room temperature.

Hmmm.... Do you realize that virtually all imported beer coming in to the U.S. comes in in unrefrigerated shipping containers? You might also consider that most of the best beers in the U.S... Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, Boulevard, Shiner, Bridgeport (just to name a few) are shipped across the country unrefrigerated...

[J. Pitman]

Hmmm.... Do you realize that virtually all imported beer coming in to the U.S. comes in in unrefrigerated shipping containers? You might also consider that most of the best beers in the U.S... Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, Boulevard, Shiner, Bridgeport (just to name a few) are shipped across the country unrefrigerated...

I understand that, but there are also brands that don't sell in oklahoma specifically because of the lack of refrigeration. New Belguim comes to mind.

[Solomon01]

A good liquor, beer and wine inventory system can supply the data that will help you make the best purchases, at the best prices, at the best times from the best suppliers. This will let you to have better information of the inventory values of the various locations in your business along with the storage area. Wine storage software has proven to be beneficial for lots of hotels and restaurants I suggest other hotels also to use this kind of software to save money and time.

[phinzup]

Hmmm.... Do you realize that virtually all imported beer coming in to the U.S. comes in in unrefrigerated shipping containers? You might also consider that most of the best beers in the U.S... Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, Boulevard, Shiner, Bridgeport (just to name a few) are shipped across the country unrefrigerated...

Your list hardly qualifies as "most of the best beers in the U,S." There are dozens, if not hundreds of breweries with better offerings than that list. And many of them do require refrigeration from brewery to retail.

[SouthsideSooner]

Your list hardly qualifies as "most of the best beers in the U,S." There are dozens, if not hundreds of breweries with better offerings than that list. And many of them do require refrigeration from brewery to retail.

Hmmm...I guess you missed the next line that said ""just to name a few"...but I stand by my statement that most of the best beers in the U.S., and the world for that matter, are shipped unrefrigerated...

...but don't get me wrong, I'm all for for putting cold boxes in liquor stores and being able to buy cold, strong beer...and unlike the complexity of changing laws to get strong beer in grocery stores, getting cold boxes in liquor stores would only require one minor statute change....

[OklahomaNick]

So it appears that this is NOT dead, but it seems a compormise has been made.
Wine can be sold in Grocery stores, but not Liquor or higher alcohol content beer.
Needs to get the signatures to be on the Nov. Ballot though..

Can this pass? Is this a fair compromise?

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-group-see...rticle/3663212


Oklahoma group seeks sale of wine in grocery stores
An initiative petition filed Tuesday seeks Oklahoma voter approval to allow residents in counties with more than 50,000 residents to have the option of holding an election that would allow the sale of wine in grocery stores.

By Michael McNutt | Published: April 3, 2012 10
A group launched an initiative petition effort Tuesday that would allow voters in counties with more than 50,000 residents to vote on whether grocery stores in those counties could sell wine.

Voters statewide first would have to give their approval to change the constitution to give the state's 15 largest counties the option for their grocery stores to sell wine.
Lee Slater, an attorney representing the group Oklahomans for Modern Laws, filed the initiative petition effort with the secretary of state's office. The group has 90 days to gather about 155,000 signatures from registered voters.
If successful, the question would be on the Nov. 6 ballot.

State law allows wine to be sold only in liquor stores. Wine is now allowed to be sold in grocery or convenience stores.
If voters would approve the state question, counties with more than 50,000 residents would have the option to let voters decide whether to allow grocery stores in those counties to sell wine. Those counties are Oklahoma, Tulsa, Canadian, Cleveland, Comanche, Creek, Garfield, Grady, Le Flore, Muskogee, Payne, Pottawatomie, Rogers, Wagoner and Washington counties.

If voters approve, wine would be sold unrefrigerated for off-premises consumption only, according to the petition. Sales of wine to persons under 21 years old would be prohibited, although persons under 21 could be allowed in the grocery store to buy other items. Persons under 21 aren't allowed in liquor stores that sell wine.

Corporations would be eligible for a grocery store wine license, but would be limited to having six locations statewide.

[krisb]

The incredibly progressive Terri White, commissioner of the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, has spoken publically against this measure.

[Just the facts]

That is tough one. Do you take the baby step or do you just not negotiate with economic terrorist?

[NoOkie]

That is tough one. Do you take the baby step or do you just not negotiate with economic terrorist?

Baby steps. Where I'm from in GA just passed some newer laws to allow Sunday alcohol sales. They let wine into the Grocery stores a while back.

[kevinpate]

A whole lot of signatures, and not a whole lot of time to garner them. The next couple of Sunday mornings should prove interesting for some communities.

[autoMATTic]

There is certainly no compromise here. This just plays right into the hands of the Bog Box retailers. It hurts any local, small grocers such as Forward Foods (under the square footage minimum). Moreover, it will crush the local liquor store owner, as it does not allow the local owner to chain but allows grocers to chain. Completely unfair as written. Liquor store owners still cannot sell on Sunday, sell refrigerated beer and wine, sell (or even give away for that matter) corkscrews, etc. Wal-Mart gets to sell wine in 6 stores but Byron can still just have 1? The drafters behind this are NOT for the people, they are paid for by Big Box retailers looking to expand sales.