1. #326
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    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    I will try to refrain a little. There are many on here who like to ask pertinent questions, pose legitimate concerns and propose intelligent solutions. However, the concerns expressed once or twice is fair, but the constant repetition gets a little old. The merits of this project need discussion and I understand everyone won't be enamored. However, there are certain posters who wouldn't like anything proposed unless we got condo's built for a million bucks per unit and then rented for $500 a month. I keep hearing about how we need low cost rentable apartments, but then this project is lambasted for costing too little per unit and fear of poor quality construction. For $100,000 per unit, these will not be top of the line buildings. But, it can get financed, and I will bet it will be in excess of 80% full within 9 months of opening. And a space that has been vacant for decades will be developed with high density residential fueling more retail, more restaurants, more commerce for the area. This will increase the value of other properties in the area and perhaps the tipping point will be reached. Then, we will get the kinds of developments we all ultimately want.

  2. #327
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    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    So, what are the reasons you all believe Henderson gets "gifts" from the city? What is the special pull he has? If the merits of the project weren't sufficient, why did he beat out the others? Is the system rigged? Why are those choosing making such bad choices?....ignorance, on the take, easily swayed? Would Wiggins have been better even though he couldn't accomplish his plan before? And, what leads anyone to believe Tannenbaum would build anything better? And, why was Ellard dismissed so easily...everyone hate her?

  3. #328

    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    I'd like to know the answer. My best guess is that the people on the board were swayed by the pretty pictures. I'll agree that the Brooks/Henderson drawings were impressive. If I'd never looked at the Legacy I might have been impressed as well. I seriously doubt the system is rigged or anyone is on the take. I certainly liked Wiggins' pretty pictures better than Brooks/Henderson's and he had the advantage of never having built the Legacy. That would have been enough for me, although I would have given Marva Ellard's proposal some serious consideration as well. A developer who thinks stucco board with palm texturing and green awnings with white lettering are attractive has someone else drawing the pictures or he just doesn't care, and that's my major concern.

    I agree: for $100,00 per unit our expectations shouldn't be too high. And, I also agree that if he were building $300,000 - 500,000/unit apartments there would be people complaining about the price of rentals. But, I've been in plenty of cities where their less expensive housing is far, far more up to date and attractive than the Legacy and I don't like the idea of rewarding people who haven't shown any evidence that they care about delivering the design they presented. I think that should be considered a slap in the face to the city and I'm mystified that such behavior is rewarded.

  4. #329

    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    I will try to refrain a little. There are many on here who like to ask pertinent questions, pose legitimate concerns and propose intelligent solutions. However, the concerns expressed once or twice is fair, but the constant repetition gets a little old. The merits of this project need discussion and I understand everyone won't be enamored. However, there are certain posters who wouldn't like anything proposed unless we got condo's built for a million bucks per unit and then rented for $500 a month. I keep hearing about how we need low cost rentable apartments, but then this project is lambasted for costing too little per unit and fear of poor quality construction. For $100,000 per unit, these will not be top of the line buildings. But, it can get financed, and I will bet it will be in excess of 80% full within 9 months of opening. And a space that has been vacant for decades will be developed with high density residential fueling more retail, more restaurants, more commerce for the area. This will increase the value of other properties in the area and perhaps the tipping point will be reached. Then, we will get the kinds of developments we all ultimately want.
    Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.

    Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.

  5. #330

    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.

    Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
    I think the standard for quality housing in Midtown was set with The Sieber and continues with the Midtown Renaissance development(s). This is a cheap project (cheaper than the Legacy in current construction cost $'s) and is a step back for Midtown, the existing projects and surrounding neighborhood. So Sad .....Way to go Urban Renewal, shame on you....

  6. #331

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Renderings from the Oklahoman:





    Proposal: Six stories, with a rooftop terrace and dog park, 500-space garage, featuring 8,200 square feet of retail and 250 rental units with monthly rates between $735 and $1,395.
    Cost: $28,219,041
    Proposal land purchase: $850,000
    Requested tax increment financing assistance: $1.5 million


    Read more: http://newsok.com/developer-chosen-f...#ixzz1PvCLeJKg

  7. #332
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    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.

    Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
    First, the quality of the new apartments and condos in Chelsea, Soho, Villiage, etc., even into Tribecca isn't necessarily better and in many cases worse. I have been involved and seen during construction and I can attest to the materials being comparable. The biggest cost difference is the land itself and having to erect things in small spaces (between buildings). Costs go up in the area if you want soundproofing, AC, security, parking, etc. And, the older apartments & condos, while still expensive, would rate in amenities approximately what you would find in say the Village here. Small kitchens, not usually great finishes and materials, etc. We take for granted what we get for the money here.

  8. Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Huge disappointment - I doubt this turns out well. Should have went with Ellard the first time around...as well as the second.

  9. #334
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    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by city View Post
    I think the standard for quality housing in Midtown was set with The Sieber and continues with the Midtown Renaissance development(s). This is a cheap project (cheaper than the Legacy in current construction cost $'s) and is a step back for Midtown, the existing projects and surrounding neighborhood. So Sad .....Way to go Urban Renewal, shame on you....
    What was the cost per unit on the Legacy (or per sq. ft.)? Also, understand there is still a lot of construction unemployment and savings in construction, particularly on larger projects which keep companies busy for a year or two. Some materials are cheaper than when the Legacy was built, too.

  10. #335
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    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Quote Originally Posted by wsucougz View Post
    Huge disappointment - I doubt this turns out well. Should have went with Ellard the first time around...as well as the second.
    Specifically, why is it that you think that? Why do you think her proposal was one of the first eliminated?

  11. #336
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    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.

    Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
    Just curious why you think this is suburban and why it is more suburban than the other proposals. I thought this fit the definition of urban...close to the sidewalk/street, fills the block, has 1st floor retail, hidden parking, 4-6 stories, rooftop amenities. What is suburban about it in particular? Just curious what your definition of urban is then.

  12. #337
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    Default Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.

    Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
    Is this considered downtown? Or is this mid-town? I agree this would be low rise for downtown, but seems appropriate for mid-town.

  13. #338

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    It seems the determining factor was Henderson's experience getting HUD money. Ironic, because it was only due to his experience with the Legacy and it took years for them to get their financing. Now this was his primary advantage?

    Anyway... Looking at the bright side this will offer more affordable units than is what current available in Midtown and if built as planned will be a nice alternative for the money and should bring in young people and students.

  14. #339

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Brzycki View Post
    Anyway... Looking at the bright side this will offer more affordable units than is what current available in Midtown and if built as planned will be a nice alternative for the money and should bring in young people and students.
    Anyone know what the general price range is of the Midtown Renaissance properties?

  15. Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the original renderings of legacy? I can't find them online.

  16. #341

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    From the Oklahoman:

    rates between $735 and $1,395

  17. #342

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    For the this new project yes, thanks Pete, but I was talking about places like the 12th street properties, Francis building, Hadden Hall, etc... that Midtown Renaissance, LLC manages.

  18. #343

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Quote Originally Posted by BDK View Post
    Just out of curiosity, does anyone have the original renderings of legacy? I can't find them online.
    http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/fi...y-drawings.jpg

  19. Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    The renderings look good, and if they turn out as depicted then I think this is a good project. I don't see how this development is suburban in nature, it seems pretty urban.

  20. Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Wow, now I really understand all the trepidation. That rendering is leagues better than what we got.

  21. #346

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Here is that original Legacy rendering:



    And here's the hip, urban design that was actually built:


  22. #347

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Brzycki View Post
    Here is that original Legacy rendering:



    And here's the hip, urban design that was actually built:

    And that's EXACTLY why people are so concerned with Henderson. My goodness. The Legacy looks nothing like that. I'll hope for the best, but expect equally radical changes to this Mercy project.

  23. #348

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    These two are very, very similar in their original design:




  24. #349
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    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    Anyone at the meetings know if they were specifically asked the assurances that the renderings, etc would be followed faithfully and why it would be a different experience this time? Surely the issue was addressed.

  25. #350

    Default Re: Mercy Hospital Site

    It was reported that the issue was brought up and Henderson said he was personally disappointed in how the Legacy turned out and that he vowed to do better.

    It's up to OCURA to hold developers accountable. With the Mercy site, they actually opened the process back up after Wiggin tried to make significant changes to his original proposal, something they didn't do with Henderson and the Legacy.

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