New Arena (formerly Prairie Surf)

[Just the facts]

There is presently zero mass transit that has been confirmed for the transit hub other than the streetcar.

What percentage of people that work downtown do you think live close enough to walk or take the streetcar to the Cox site? As much as things have built up and with all the plans on the drawing boards I'd bet that number is still just a few percent.

Even if when there is a commuter line to/from Norman, Edmond and Midwest City I doubt that number grows to much more than 5%.

Apparently, the streetcar won' be going to the hub for awhile either. Alas, just like mass transit doesn't reduce traffic congestion, mass transit isn't going to solve parking problems either. For every person who leaves their car at home and takes the train there will be someone else in a car to take their place. The only way to solve parking issues is to stop building more parking. I know that seems counter-intuitive to some but if people know there is no place for them to park they will stop trying to do it. Of course, that takes an alternative form of transportation to be made available but I wonder if all the TIF money for structured parking was spent on mass transit instead how much further along we would be.

[Jersey Boss]

Apparently, the streetcar won' be going to the hub for awhile either. Alas, just like mass transit doesn't reduce traffic congestion, mass transit isn't going to solve parking problems either. For every person who leaves their car at home and takes the train there will be someone else in a car to take their place. The only way to solve parking issues is to stop building more parking. I know that seems counter-intuitive to some but if people know there is no place for them to park they will stop trying to do it. Of course, that takes an alternative form of transportation to be made available but I wonder if all the TIF money for structured parking was spent on mass transit instead how much further along we would be.

This practice has served Manhattan well.

[bchris02]

This practice has served Manhattan well.

In a small city like OKC, removing downtown parking will simply drive development to the suburbs. Developers design for the infrastructure that is here, not what theoretically should be here under a certain worldview or not what may be here in 15-20 years. This isn't NYC where density and mass transit are a requirement because of limited space. Comparing OKC development practices with Manhattan, like is often done on this site, couldn't be more ridiculous. There probably couldn't be any two cities that are more different than OKC and NYC.

I promise everyone, if many of the dogmatic demands of some of the urbanists on this site were enacted in OKC, it would mean the end of the downtown renaissance. Developers wouldn't spend the money nor go through the hassle in a place like OKC to conform to some of these standards and demands.

I am all for higher standards in OKC. I think development standards here have long lagged peer cities and think things should be taken to the next level. They have to stay realistic though for OKC. This cities size, economy, and culture has to be taken into consideration. What may be good for Tokyo may not be good for OKC. Instead of looking at what cities like NYC, London, and Paris are doing, which have no comparison to OKC, look at what Memphis, Nashville, Louisville, and San Antonio are doing and try to emulate that.

[Just the facts]

There is presently zero mass transit that has been confirmed for the transit hub other than the streetcar.

What percentage of people that work downtown do you think live close enough to walk or take the streetcar to the Cox site? As much as things have built up and with all the plans on the drawing boards I'd bet that number is still just a few percent.

Even if when there is a commuter line to/from Norman, Edmond and Midwest City I doubt that number grows to much more than 5%.

Apparently, the streetcar won' be going to the hub for awhile either. Alas, just like mass transit doesn't reduce traffic congestion, mass transit isn't going to solve parking problems either. For every person who leaves their car at home and takes the train there will be someone else in a car to take their place. The only way to solve parking issues is to stop building more parking. I know that seems counter-intuitive to some but if people know there is no place for them to park they will stop trying to do it. Of course, that takes an alternative form of transportation to be made available to keep the wheels of commerce turning but I wonder if all the TIF money for structured parking was spent on mass transit instead how much further along we would be.

[BrettM2]

Apparently, the streetcar won' be going to the hub for awhile either. Alas, just like mass transit doesn't reduce traffic congestion, mass transit isn't going to solve parking problems either. For every person who leaves their car at home and takes the train there will be someone else in a car to take their place. The only way to solve parking issues is to stop building more parking. I know that seems counter-intuitive to some but if people know there is no place for them to park they will stop trying to do it. Of course, that takes an alternative form of transportation to be made available to keep the wheels of commerce turning but I wonder if all the TIF money for structured parking was spent on mass transit instead how much further along we would be.

Why do we keep going over this? Yes, this would be great. Very few people would argue this. But it isn't exactly possible in OKC in 2014 (or 2015). After decades of decay/poor urban renewal/economic swings, OKC is catching up to some of its peer cities. Hopefully things will improve (and they obviously are; we're getting the street car and local governments are working on a regional rail network). According to Pete's previous posts, the lack of parking will become a major issue in the next few years (and already is). I'd rather add the garages now, let downtown grow, and continue on the momentum of what we do have. Maybe ten years from now we can draw that line in the sand and tell the garage proposals, "You shall not pass!" Until then, we need a hybrid approach.

[Just the facts]

Why do we keep going over this? Yes, this would be great. Very few people would argue this. But it isn't exactly possible in OKC in 2014 (or 2015). After decades of decay/poor urban renewal/economic swings, OKC is catching up to some of its peer cities. Hopefully things will improve (and they obviously are; we're getting the street car and local governments are working on a regional rail network). According to Pete's previous posts, the lack of parking will become a major issue in the next few years (and already is). I'd rather add the garages now, let downtown grow, and continue on the momentum of what we do have. Maybe ten years from now we can draw that line in the sand and tell the garage proposals, "You shall not pass!" Until then, we need a hybrid approach.

So at what point do we make the decision to say no more large footprint parking garages; when there is not a parking problem? There is always going to be a parking problem. No city in the history of the world has solved it. Alas, what if OKC was the first city to solve the parking problem what would then be the reason for building mass transit? In short, mass transit IS the solution to the parking problem for those people who use it. If OKC only had 1 parking space 5 people would drive downtown to try and park in it.

[hoya]

Teo, I agree with you that this location should be mixed use and a great gateway to downtown. But the pics you posted just look hideous to me.

[Teo9969]

Teo, I agree with you that this location should be mixed use and a great gateway to downtown. But the pics you posted just look hideous to me.

What exactly is hideous? The buildings, the people, the fountain, the movie theater, the restaurants?

Or did you just dismiss the entire photo because you don't like the mechanical roof which is not even a major reason why I shared those pics?

[Bellaboo]

What exactly is hideous? The buildings, the people, the fountain, the movie theater, the restaurants?

Or did you just dismiss the entire photo because you don't like the mechanical roof which is not even a major reason why I shared those pics?

Teo, He's pulling your chain, he likes what you posted.

[Laramie]

Cox Convention Center will not be demolished until construction is completed on the new convention center. Since the city owns the Cox Convention Center site, wouldn't it make more sense to keep this site for the future indoor sports arena when we retire the Peake?

[BrettM2]

Cox Convention Center will not be demolished until construction is completed on the new convention center. Since the city owns the Cox Convention Center site, wouldn't it make more sense to keep this site for the future indoor sports arena when we retire the Peake?

Not if they can sell the land for a lot more than it'll take to acquire it slightly outside the CBD.

[Pete]

Not if they can sell the land for a lot more than it'll take to acquire it slightly outside the CBD.

Plus, they just paid a consultant a lot of money to do a study and come back with recommendations on how this block and the others around the convention center should be developed.

There are plenty of places to put a new arena when that time comes and it shouldn't be in the middle of our central business district anyway.

[BrettM2]

Plus, they just paid a consultant a lot of money to do a study and come back with recommendations on how this block and the others around the convention center should be developed.

There are plenty of places to put a new arena when that time comes and it shouldn't be in the middle of our central business district anyway.

Definitely agree. They can easily keep it close enough to be convenient to all the amenities without maintaining a super block in the middle of the CBD. Hopefully the city sells the land in smaller parcels to keep one group from hampering a return to the grid.

[Pete]

When it's time for a new arena, the Producer's Coop might be a good possibility.

Or south of the boulevard near the new park, etc.

[Laramie]

When it's time for a new arena, the Producer's Coop might be a good possibility.

Or south of the boulevard near the new park, etc.

Those are excellent options.

[sroberts24]

When it's time for a new arena, the Producer's Coop might be a good possibility.

Or south of the boulevard near the new park, etc.

Or the Compress Lot (Uhaul)

[BrettM2]

Or the Compress Lot (Uhaul)

If they tear down that building, I'll be pissed. Someone needs to buy it and remove the Uhaul exterior.

[Plutonic Panda]

If they tear down that building, I'll be pissed. Someone needs to buy it and remove the Uhaul exterior.

Why wouldn't they tear it down? It's surrounded by vacant lots to build on, and that's the only standing building to tear down. Instead of building on a vacant lot, it's much funner to tear down a historic building, don't you think?

[BrettM2]

Why wouldn't they tear it down? It's surrounded by vacant lots to build on, and that's the only standing building to tear down. Instead of building on a vacant lot, it's much funner to tear down a historic building, don't you think?

Thankfully I read the full comment before I lost my mind... Now you're going to make me actually read your posts to see when you are seriously wanting a 44-lane highway and when you are just yanking chains.

[bchris02]

If they tear down that building, I'll be pissed. Someone needs to buy it and remove the Uhaul exterior.

Most people probably aren't aware of what is under the exterior.

[bombermwc]

Did I just hear someone say that want to demo the Cox Center before we even have a proposal in place? Wow, so here we are complaining about blanket demo work, and that comes up for something that still serves a purpose.....and I still feel will continue to do so even after the CC is open.

We just lost the Barons, so we've now lost the main arena tenant. But will that still be true in another few years? Who knows.

I'm usually opposed to the reclaiming of this space for anything other than the new arena, but like most things I comment on....it all depends. If we can get REAL density out of replacing the Cox Center, great. I don't really care about the grid restoration because it's not as though it gets you anywhere....a rail line in one direction, buildings in 2 directions, and the gardens in the other. If you want more streetscape space, fine whatever. IF someone came up to me and said they were going to build the density that rendering had, I'd be all for it. But until we see the CC open and we know how it's going to operate...and how the Cox will relate to it, I'm not making any plans on the site.

[Just the facts]

I get what you are saying bombermwc but I look at it this way: abandoned bad urban design < occupied bad urban design < vacant lot < abandoned good urban design < occupied good urban design. Much like the Stage Center did, the Cox Center actually prevents adjacent development because it is such a non-inviting structure to be near. Pick any project downtown and drop it into my preference ranking and you can easily determine my stance on the project.

[Laramie]

We not going to solve every problem to make downtown Oklahoma City a CBD utopia. You move one development with the idea to solve a problem then you create another; sadly that's how it appears to work. Just work with the big picture items as we develop a suitable downtown.

It seems like it was only yesterday I so vividly recall the opening night of the Myriad Convention Center's 'Great Arena' with Della Reese (singer) as the marquee entertainment on that eventful day. Our new arena-convention center complex was to put Oklahoma City in the mix for some prime conventions; there was only one problem, we had only one legitimate downtown hotel.

[warreng88]

From the Journal Record:

Three-peat: Hosting NCAA caps strong year for OKC convention business

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record December 23, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY – Oklahoma City gained rare sports bragging rights in 2014, with three consecutive NCAA championships, Mike Carrier said.

“It’s definitely worth bragging about that. By hosting volleyball, wrestling and softball, we became the first city in NCAA history to have three Division I championships in a single calendar year,” the president of the Oklahoma City Convention and Visitors Bureau said.

“There’s no such thing as an uninteresting year for us,” he said. “Our hotel occupancy citywide was solid, and downtown life has been very active. And from what we’re hearing from our downtown partners, 2015 has all the potential to be even better.”

Carrier is still sorting through attendance numbers and economic impacts as he prepares the agency’s end-of-the-year report, and he was reluctant to provide incomplete totals. However, he confirmed that the city’s tourism was up overall, and more event organizers are inquiring about available space and prices.

“One event in particular will be a really nice win for us, and we should be ready to announce that in just a few weeks in early January,” he said. “It’s a few thousand people planning to come here in July 2016, a very nice piece of business that we would be able to take from a city we don’t normally compete with.”

In August, the United Pentecostal Church will hold its international youth congress in Oklahoma City, an event of about 20,000 people.

“Obviously with a youth, religious organization, you’re talking about well-behaved kids having a great time in Oklahoma City, and we can expect many adult chaperones and family members coming along as well,” he said.

He cited the Oklahoma Indian Gaming Association conference and trade show, which attracted about 7,500 delegates and vendors nationwide in August, as another example of the city’s successes in 2014. That show used all available space at the Cox Center downtown.

In September, the city hosted the National Rural Water Association, with about 1,500 primary attendees. That organization has agreed to come back again in 2015. And the Red Earth Festival organizers have signed a five-year contract to keep the event downtown. The festival usually attracts about 25,000 people, many of whom travel from out of state.

Carrier said the agency over the last few years has been planting seeds for discussion about a new convention center scheduled to be built in downtown under the MAPS 3 temporary sales tax. Now that the City Council has agreed to the overall design for the 550,000-square-foot, $286 million project, potential clients are trying to get calendar dates for long-term scheduling. Carrier was unable to name those organizations while negotiations are underway.

“We have groups that are ready to finalize decisions, and we’ll probably be signing contracts for future business at the same time we break ground,” he said, referring to an estimated start in early 2016 and a completion in 2018.

[Anonymous.]

Playoff banners going up. They look nicer this year than in years past, maybe since missing last season - they had more money to drop.