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Thread: Core to Shore

  1. #1

    Default Core to shore land acquisition...



    Not sure where to put this, so I thought I would start a new thread. Mods, merge it with an old thread if needed.

    City faces a tough task in Core to Shore
    By Will Kooi
    The Journal Record
    Posted: 09:46 PM Wednesday, July 28, 2010

    OKLAHOMA CITY – Al Cusack’s meatpacking plant sits among the neglected streets and neighborhoods due south of the downtown business district, an area known for its history but not its aesthetics. The good news: The city plans to build a large public park in his neighborhood.

    The bad news: It will be right across the street, overtaking his parking lot.

    Cusack Meats has been in the midst of Hubcap Alley since 1951, supplying meat to major corporations, hotels and hospitals – all from the nondescript former Baptist church building on SW 12th Street. Half of his property will become public property and the other half will be moved to make way for urban renewal.

    But Cusack said he supports the change, the park and the entire Core to Shore project.

    “I don’t think it’s something that I’m ever going to enjoy in my lifetime, but maybe my kid or her kids will be able to enjoy this,” he said.

    Because of Core to Shore urban renewal and a public park paid for by the MAPS 3 tax, a wide area between Interstate 40 and the Oklahoma River will be totally revamped.

    The city and the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority are beginning the processes of acquiring large swaths of land for the park or possessing properties for future private development that will meet Core to Shore design standards.
    That means the city is preparing for one of its most dangerous games.

    “There’s always a handful of people who end up going to court,” said Alex Souder, senior vice president of Oklahoma City-based Pinnacle Consulting Management Group Inc. Pinnacle is working with the Urban Renewal Authority, buying properties and assisting property owners with relocation. Pinnacle sends letters to residents and business owners, letting them know the process and what they can expect to happen.

    The owners are then contacted by appraisers, surveyors and environmental inspectors who all do their best to come up with the most recent, fair market price. Pinnacle makes the owners an offer and works with them to find a suitable relocation placement or facility.

    “They usually go pretty well,” Souder said. “Our goal is to treat people fairly, to provide fair and just compensation, sound and solid relocation. … But you normally can’t make everyone happy.”

    Most of the businesses in the area feel they will be treated fairly.

    “(Urban Renewal Authority’s) comment to me has been, ‘We will make you whole again,’” Cusack said.

    But some are getting ready to hold out, before the process has even started. Mike Bailey, owner of The Car Doctor auto repair on SW Sixth Street – a block west of the future park – said he has been approached by several local businesses wanting to know if he would join with them in hiring an attorney.

    “The answer is no. Absolutely not,” he said, claiming relocation is in the best interests for himself, his business and the city.

    Souder said if an owner is simply against a project or doesn’t feel like the market value is fair, there’s the eminent domain channel.

    “We explain to them, it’s not a threat, it’s not an arm-twisting tactic – in fact it’s their right under the Fifth Amendment to appeal their price,” he said. “It is a legal process that is here for both sides.”

    Once an eminent domain case has been filed, a judge appoints three commissioners: landowners in the district, businessmen, or people with real estate backgrounds – anyone who deals with property and can fairly appraise. The commissioners determine a value for the property through viewings and meetings with the owner.

    The value is rendered to the judge, and once the governing authority pays that value, it possesses the property.

    “From that point, both sides have the ability to appeal the report, leading to a jury trial,” Souder said. “Those can take years.”

    Regardless of a subsequent appeal, once the authority pays the price determined by the commissioners, it possesses the property and can continue with the project. The owner has 30 days to vacate the property.

    Souder said between 10 to 30 percent of property acquisition results in eminent domain. However, Pinnacle and the Urban Renewal Authority want to make sure the process is smooth and would rather settle with an owner than waste time and money resorting to the tactic.

    “Usually, once they understand the appraised value, see the relocation financial assistance we have available, and see we’re on their side, they’re OK,” Souder said.

    “We want to make sure taxpayers’ money is spent reasonably.”

    In fact, although the Urban Renewal Authority’s acquisition procedures are modeled on federal procedures, theirs have been tweaked to provide more compensation than normal.

    “We don’t want to be branded with people saying, ‘I didn’t get enough money,’” said Urban Renewal Authority Director JoeVan Bullard.

    Cusack Meats hosted a Core to Shore meeting for surrounding businesses where Bullard and Director of City Planning Russell Claus answered questions. While some are still not happy and will demand more money, Cusack said he thinks the city will be fair.

    “A lot of people have the mind-set that the city is just taking their property away from them and isn’t going to give them anything,” he said. “I don’t see that happening.”

    Relocation will actually benefit his business with the possibility of a new and bigger facility, Bailey said.

    “If they need my property to do a designed urban program, that’s fine; just move me to a place where I can continue my 10-year plan,” he said.

  2. Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    What happens if the state decides not to fund the boulevard? Despite every assurance from the mayor, the state has repeatedly declined to even add the boulevard to its eight year funding plan. I know, I know, I'm gonna upset someone again...

  3. #3

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    Everyone on this board needs to contact their legislators and tell them about the situation with the boulevard. Their calls to good old ODOT would have a lot more sway.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    I'd be thrilled if the boulevard didn't get funded. Sounds good to me. It would allow more land for development, potentially a site for a streetcar line or even a longitudinal park that intersects wtih the Central Park.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    What happens if the state decides not to fund the boulevard? Despite every assurance from the mayor, the state has repeatedly declined to even add the boulevard to its eight year funding plan. I know, I know, I'm gonna upset someone again...
    If state funding falls through, the City may already have most of the cost funded from funds in the 2007 General Obligation Bond Issue But first one has to remember how important the Mayor thinks the Boulevard is (although never giving any reasons or support for his repeated statements, he just presents it as fact).

    http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...o-shore-plans/

    Before You Make Those 2012 Core to Shore Plans … (4/17/09)
    Cornett admits Core to Shore, the development of mostly blighted area between the river and downtown, can’t be launched without the boulevard. “The city grinds to a halt if that boulevard isn’t constructed when I-40 is relocated.”
    He has repeatedly intertwined the MAPS 3 Park & the Boulevard.

    http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/20...core-to-shore/
    Mayor Mick Cornett Looks Ahead – Downtown, Core to Shore (1/15/09)
    "The large central park in the Core to Shore project is also critical to our city’s future, ... Also central to the project is the at-grade boulevard that will replace the current I-40. ... The park and the boulevard are the lynchpins, and they serve as the catalyst for future retail, housing, and a potential Convention Center..."

    That brings us to the cost of the Boulevard

    Boulevard planned to replace Crosstown bridge, but its design, funding are uncertain (Gazette, 10/28/09)

    This article put the estimated cost of the replacement Boulevard at $75M.

    Oklahoma City Planning Director Russell Claus "pointed to $15 million from the 2007 general obligation bond designated for the boulevard that can help planners make the boulevard functional and truly grand."
    The only item I could find in the 2007 bond issue for $15M was:

    Prop 1 (Streets - Reconstruction)
    #57 "Within an area bounded by Sheridan Avenue, Oklahoma River, Western and Lincoln" ... $15M
    Unclear if the City's portion ($15M) is part of the $75M or not but then there is the nearly $52M slush fund for "Unlisted"

    Prop 1 (Streets - Unlisted)
    "The balance of said funds shall be used as follows: Engineering, right-of-way acquisition, utility relocation and construction of urban and rural street improvements, including, but not limited to, construction and reconstruction and/or resurfacing of streets, curbs, drainage, traffic control improvements, related street appurtenances and pavement management system improvements, along with street maintenance and construction equipment and materials; and, expenses of the bond issue." ... $51.998M
    Those 2 items add up to $67M. that only leaves $8M to dig up from some other fund or Bond item. As we have seen with the City's purchase of the $42M Sardis Water deal (overpaying what is owed by $15M) when the City is experiencing employee layoffs and service cuts. Not to mention another particular $777M slush fund. The City appears to have available funds tucked away for use when they deem appropriate.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    If they aren't planning to put the blvd in why are they building an on-ramp to it along the new I-40? You can see the new on-ramp in Google Earth just south of Bass Pro Shop.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by betts View Post
    I'd be thrilled if the boulevard didn't get funded. Sounds good to me. It would allow more land for development, potentially a site for a streetcar line or even a longitudinal park that intersects wtih the Central Park.
    Or if it did get funded it would allow for land development along the boulevard, which would be pretty cool if done correctly.
    I dont think another park is necessary...

  8. #8

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    I'd say, if funding fell through, they'd take funding from the MAPS tax and squeeze out the senior centers. I'm pretty sure the vague language of the initiative would let them get away with it, and I've always been suspicious of their intentions with the senior centers...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    If they aren't planning to put the blvd in why are they building an on-ramp to it along the new I-40? You can see the new on-ramp in Google Earth just south of Bass Pro Shop.
    Absolutely and that has been funded. As Steve has pointed out before (am doing this from memory, so if any of the details are in error, please correct), the Boulevard was part of the deal reached when the ODOTs preferred relocation route was chosen several years ago. The State/ODOT committed to paying for the replacement Boulevard. Originally its cost was included in the relocation, but as costs kept escalating, different elements were broken out as separate projects. the teardown and the ramps were eventually funded. The last remaining piece is the funding for the Boulevard itself. Steve also had posts over in his blog that had ODOT stating IF the Boulevard gets built and a spokeswoman saying that they are still working with the City on the design etc (number of lanes and the like) which will have a direct impact on its costs. Implying that it as soon as they know they design, they can come up with the cost and then the funding.... (unlike the various MAPS where we come up with the funding first, then the design etc is worked out)

  10. Default Re: Core to shore land acquisition...

    Like betts, I would be happy if the boulevard was scrapped or scaled back. The ramps could still be used to direct traffic into downtown, but then divert onto Reno perhaps.
    Don't Edmond My Downtown

  11. #11

    Default Core to Shore

    Not sure if this has been posted before.
    http://www.okcchamber.com/coretoshore/index.html



    Much more info under the economical development title too.
    http://www.okcchamber.com/gateway.asp?id=1
    http://www.greateroklahomacity.com/index.php?src=
    Last edited by Pete; 02-07-2011 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    I still think the convention center needs to be moved to the east, just south of Lower Bricktown.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    They kept the old design for the convention center in that front page picture. The Rose Rock. I love it.. Hope they keep it. *fingers crossed*

  14. #14

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Wow this is soo cool! Thanks for sharing.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Cool stuff, but could we at least get some more density between the new I-40 and the River. That area should be OKC version of the Back Bay Area. Three story townhomes built out to the street throughout the entire area is how it should look.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    The Chamber dabbles in city planning..and fails. I see them touting EVERY bit of fail that we have criticized C2S for. This site is just for marketing purposes to market the downtown OKC of the future, and it's an awesome idea, but I hope they're ready to change the graphics when the convention center is moved to be a part of Bricktown and the park is surrounded by more scale-appropriate urban infill.

    I am intrigued by the idea of "Festival Park." The renderings for that convention center are awesome, and it would be a really cool addition across the street from Lower Bricktown.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    I really do get disgusted by the desire to recreate suburbia in the urban core by the very people who have the wealth and ability to make change happen. Are there no urban minded people with more than $100,000 living in OKC?

  18. #18

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    Cool stuff, but could we at least get some more density between the new I-40 and the River. That area should be OKC version of the Back Bay Area. Three story townhomes built out to the street throughout the entire area is how it should look.
    I agree that would be ideal, but if history is any indicator, OKC will likely see nothing but single-family homes between downtown and the river...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Quote Originally Posted by semisimple View Post
    I agree that would be ideal, but if history is any indicator, OKC will likely see nothing but single-family homes between downtown and the river...
    Wrong, if recent history (post 1960) is any indicator we won't see any residential development period. If we looked at early OKC history this area would become filled with midrises. The early developers of OKC were much more visionary and urban. Go figure.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    I really do get disgusted by the desire to recreate suburbia in the urban core by the very people who have the wealth and ability to make change happen. Are there no urban minded people with more than $100,000 living in OKC?
    Obviously there aren't many people with $400,000 that want to live downtown. Why is it that $100,000 units at Maywood sell better than $400,000 units?

  21. #21

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbcGum View Post
    Obviously there aren't many people with $400,000 that want to live downtown. Why is it that $100,000 units at Maywood sell better than $400,000 units?
    I didn't mean the people buying condos, I meant the people building them. The deisre for downtown apartments has been well established but that is missing the point anyhow. I was specifically directing my question at the vision presented in the Core to Shore plan linked to in this thread. The person, or people, that cam up with the vision of what the area should be developed in to suck. The best the can do is bunch of single family homes? Do they have no concept of urban ar all. Are they so devoid of imagination that all they can ever think of are single family homes? Are we really spending all this time and effort to create a giant subdivision downtown? If so, what a waste of time, effort, and resources. The new motto of OKC should be 'Paradise lost'.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    I didn't mean the people buying condos, I meant the people building them. The deisre for downtown apartments has been well established but that is missing the point anyhow. I was specifically directing my question at the vision presented in the Core to Shore plan linked to in this thread. The person, or people, that cam up with the vision of what the area should be developed in to suck. The best the can do is bunch of single family homes? Do they have no concept of urban ar all. Are they so devoid of imagination that all they can ever think of are single family homes? Are we really spending all this time and effort to create a giant subdivision downtown? If so, what a waste of time, effort, and resources. The new motto of OKC should be 'Paradise lost'.
    I'm not sure I understand you. You want someone to come in and develop a bunch of product that nobody seems to want? It's obvious that most people in OKC like single family homes with a garage and a yard.

    As the ULI report indicated, it could take 50 yrs. to develop the C2S. I'd say it's a little early to start moaning about this.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    This is what I am saying AbcGum. The material presented is a vision. It is a vision of what the area could/should become. I just find it sad the that the 'dream' is a bunch of single family homes. What kind of dream is that? OKC has tons of single family homes now. We don't need Core to Shore for that. Is Core to Shore all about providing housing for 500 people? It was supposed to be about re-inventing the city and re-producing what was lost. If built as shown in that slide show then it does none of that. There is so much empty space between the buildings it is hard to tell where the park begins and ends.

    The only thing worse then setting your goals too high and not achieving them, is setting them too low and exceeding them every time.

    I was reading through a guide to urbansim at the book store the other night and there was a good saying on one of the pages and I'll paraphrase if I can. In suburbia, buildings are defined by the open space around them. In urban areas the open space is defined by the building around them. You can't create 'urban' with green space (a lesson Sandridge would do well to learn). You have to create urban with, well..., urban.

    BTW - for rent residential space in downtown OKC is in high demand.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Well, it sounds to me that you have your "urban" blinders on. Take a step back and think objectively for a second. Those are conceptual drawings, made to show the boundaries of the different proposed neighborhoods. As far as I know, it will be up to the city to set design guidelines, which has not been done yet. Why shouldn't there be a mix of single family and multiple family housing in C2S? The market has already shown that it is not interested in high priced multiple family housing, why do you assume C2S would be any different.

    There will certainly be a need for "for rent multiple family housing," but it needs to be supplemented with purchased housing.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Chamber of Commerce - Okc downtown / core to shore map.

    Now you bring up an intersting point. Are there going to be design standards setup by the City or are the local property owners and developers going to be the driving force?

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