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Thread: Project 180

  1. #151

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by Northsider View Post
    The problem for years has been its like the city wants a fun part of DT and a segragated CBD.
    That obviously isn't what the city wants. You have to keep in mind that the various elements of downtown in question have been developed over about a 50 year time frame and when the Cox Center (Myriad) was built, Bricktown hadn't even been conceived. There was no reason to consider that the gardens might need to be connected to anywhere east of the railroad tracks. The Cox Center is currently much too valuable to just be razed to give greater visibility and connectivity. It is likely that at some point in the future changes will be made and some planning should begin towards that but it is not in the near future.

  2. Default Re: Project 180

    I thought I had read somewhere that they city had decided to keep the Cox Center because the ability to hold both the mens and womens Big 12 tourney's at once was a huge + for us. Also, it allows for hockey and basketball at the same time without interfering with each other.

  3. #153

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I thought I had read somewhere that they city had decided to keep the Cox Center because the ability to hold both the mens and womens Big 12 tourney's at once was a huge + for us. Also, it allows for hockey and basketball at the same time without interfering with each other.
    That is obviously a major plus for OKC making it unlikely that the Cox Center will be displaced until the day that the Ford Center is replaced and becomes the backup arena.

  4. #154

    Default Re: Project 180

    So then where gonna have two C.C ? I went on the city's official website ,and the summary of the C.C project is the new one is to replace the old.
    sorry I was looking into the future I got to remember the mayor said it will be in 10-11 year. 2020 OKC !!!!!!
    Last edited by Northsider; 04-27-2010 at 12:42 AM. Reason: ....

  5. #155

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by Northsider View Post
    So then where gonna have two C.C ? I went on the city's official website ,and the summary of the C.C project is the new one is to replace the old.
    sorry I was looking into the future I got to remember the mayor said it will be in 10-11 year. 2020 OKC !!!!!!
    That is what it says and eventually that may be the case, but the Mayor has gone on record as saying that no decision on the fate of the Cox has been made...and doesn't need to be made for a long time (according to the Mayor, he wants the new C.C. "staged last" and is about 10 years away).

    Then there is the matter that others have mentioned: the advantage of having 2 arenas side by side for Big 12 type events. The new C.C. won't have an arena and like someone else posted, unlikely they will get rid of the arena portion of the Cox until a replacement arena for the Ford is built and the Ford becomes the auxiliary arena. So for a while we will actually have 3 convention centers (the Cox, the Ford and the new C.C.). Yes, the Ford IS considered a convention center (was worded that way on the original MAPS ballot) and the Mayor even thinks so as he mentioned the need for the Ford improvements to (not an exact quote) "attract bigger and better concerts, conventions..."

    Just like there is an advantage to having 2 arenas side by side, there could be a similar advantage to having 2 or 3 convention centers in close proximity. The largest one used for the largest events and the smaller one for the lesser events. Plus the smaller could be used as overflow. Most likely this is going to be a need for quite a while. We are building the new C.C. to meet the CURRENT space needs of Tier 2 convention requirements. NOT what those requirements are going to be 10 years from now when the C.C. eventually opens. Yes, they are planning on finishing the C.C. with an expansion but that approx $120M cost is unfunded in MAPS 3, so we are talking MAPS 4 and that pushes the timeline out even farther.

  6. #156

    Default Re: Project 180

    Call it what you want, but FORD CENTER is NOT a true convention center, this city doesn't even have a convention center in the modern context. It's a freaking arena. Sure they can hold a giant meeting there and call it a "convention" but it's not a convention center. Who cares if Mick Cornett and a ballot call it a convention center, it's not what typical convention planners look for, and that's what matters, especially considering that's what we're trying to attract more of.

  7. Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Call it what you want, but FORD CENTER is NOT a true convention center, this city doesn't even have a convention center in the modern context. It's a freaking arena. Sure they can hold a giant meeting there and call it a "convention" but it's not a convention center. Who cares if Mick Cornett and a ballot call it a convention center, it's not what typical convention planners look for, and that's what matters, especially considering that's what we're trying to attract more of.
    It's still part of the package of facilities that we have to offer. Not that OKC will ever get one but use the pre-presidential election political party conventions as an example. The main convention is housed in an arena facility while other associated meetings are held in traditional conference facilities. There are conventions that are lecture oriented and will use an arena-like facility just like there are conventions that prefer huge, open display rooms. What the city needs in a new convention center is the latter. The Cox has small room facilities but inadequate display space.

  8. #158

    Default Re: Project 180

    Exactly.

  9. #159

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry OKC View Post
    That is what it says and eventually that may be the case, but the Mayor has gone on record as saying that no decision on the fate of the Cox has been made...and doesn't need to be made for a long time (according to the Mayor, he wants the new C.C. "staged last" and is about 10 years away).
    .
    I know the original plan was for it to be last stage, but didn't the ULI suggest making the C.C. one of the first projects or am I not remembering correctly? If that was the recommendation, any word on whether those in charge are leaning a specific way?

  10. #160

    Default Re: Project 180

    Yes they did, however I'd argue that only the need for selecting the site for the C.C. would be necessary at first, not actually building it. Their argument was that we'd need to build it so we'd know where street car, transit hub, etc. would go in relation to it. All we need for that to take place is to know the location of C.C. Many are arguing that if street car system is built, one we can save time/money/traffic headaches by timing it with Project 180 street redo's and two, it will spur more private development faster as TOD has been proven in numerous cities, versus any private development that would follow a Convention Center, which is very rare.

  11. #161

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Yes they did, however I'd argue that only the need for selecting the site for the C.C. would be necessary at first, not actually building it. Their argument was that we'd need to build it so we'd know where street car, transit hub, etc. would go in relation to it. All we need for that to take place is to know the location of C.C. Many are arguing that if street car system is built, one we can save time/money/traffic headaches by timing it with Project 180 street redo's and two, it will spur more private development faster as TOD has been proven in numerous cities, versus any private development that would follow a Convention Center, which is very rare.
    So the area south of the ford on the the new blvd. is not the selected site or just a preferred site?
    I heard a few discussion on here about it being closer to B.T and what large hotel are we attracting that will be connected to it?

    thx

  12. #162

    Default Re: Project 180

    It is the mayors preferred site, but NO SITE has been set in stone. Yes, the other "preferred site" is the lumberyard south of Bricktown.

    The large hotel will be a convention hotel attached to the convention center, we would probably put an RFP out at the time and then select the operator (brand).

  13. #163

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Call it what you want, but FORD CENTER is NOT a true convention center, this city doesn't even have a convention center in the modern context. It's a freaking arena. Sure they can hold a giant meeting there and call it a "convention" but it's not a convention center. Who cares if Mick Cornett and a ballot call it a convention center, it's not what typical convention planners look for, and that's what matters, especially considering that's what we're trying to attract more of.
    I understand your point about what convention center planners are looking for but it IS important what the Mayor says (if not, how can we believe anything about MAPS 3) and even more importantly is what the ballot said. That means what we were promised in writing didn't happen (as opposed to the verbal campaign promises).

    Speaking of what convention center planners look for, why are we waiting 10 years to build this one (when we are already losing convention business). And why are we building it to meet the CURRENT needs of Tier 2 conventions (not what the needs will be 10 years from now? Our brand new facility will be 10 years behind the day it opens. Absurd IMO

    Let me stress I am not against the Convention Center but think it needs to be done right if we are going to do it. And if the employment/revenue projections are correct think it needs to be built sooner rather than later. Get that increased tourism/convention dollar coming in and that will increase the revenues for the other MAPS 3 projects. According to the City's/Chambers materials, the C.C. is THE economic engine of MAPS 3 and therefor should be a top priority.

    To the other post: the ULI did indeed recommend at least selecting the C.C. site for the reasons given. Not sure how the Mayor feels about any of the ULI recommendations since he was a no show for their presentation (with no explanation). I suspect though that serious consideration is being given to the ULI recommendations (which most agreed with on the various threads) considering the City is replaying the bejeebers out of it on the City's Cox cable channel. If they were trying to keep that quiet, they aren't doing a very good job...LOL

  14. #164

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Yes they did, however I'd argue that only the need for selecting the site for the C.C. would be necessary at first, not actually building it. Their argument was that we'd need to build it so we'd know where street car, transit hub, etc. would go in relation to it. All we need for that to take place is to know the location of C.C. Many are arguing that if street car system is built, one we can save time/money/traffic headaches by timing it with Project 180 street redo's and two, it will spur more private development faster as TOD has been proven in numerous cities, versus any private development that would follow a Convention Center, which is very rare.
    Absolutely, so many of the MAPS 3 projects are dependent on each other and will make it difficult to do one if the location of the others isn't fairly certain

  15. #165

    Default Re: Project 180

    Project 180 starts in Myriad Gardens
    BY STEVE LACKMEYER
    Published: April 29, 2010

    Allan Storjohann’s office is about to disappear. Things are being torn up all around him. And he’s happy.

    Oklahoma City, get ready — Project 180 has officially gotten under way. And Storjohann, manager at the Myriad Gardens, is only the first of thousands of downtown workers who will find themselves inconvenienced during the ensuing three-year-long downtown makeover. After hosting the Festival of the Arts last week, the gardens and the Crystal Bridge were shut down for a $38 million makeover.

    Read the rest of Steve's article at:
    NewsOK

  16. #166

    Default Re: Project 180

    Steve/FritterGirl,

    Any chance we can get a timeline of the Myriad Gardens renovations? When will the tube be done? What does Phase 1 and Phase 2 include? What else will be taking place and when?

  17. #167

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Steve/FritterGirl,

    Any chance we can get a timeline of the Myriad Gardens renovations? When will the tube be done? What does Phase 1 and Phase 2 include? What else will be taking place and when?
    This should help answer some of those questions: --> Construction FAQ

    I don't have a full timeline of the outdoor grounds. Demolition will begin in the next several days, but they are still waiting on bids and speccing out details of some of the integral features within the redesign. (Really getting to the nitty-gritty of preferred building materials for restaurant, etc.)

    I can tell you that the Crystal Bridge project alone will take approximately 6-8 months. They will start at the north end, working one area at a time and work their way south, almost in a domino effect. They will NOT remove the 3,000 panels at one time, preferring to work in sections. This is for the protection of the plants, as well as for efficiency in the reglazing process, which is actually a fairly complex undertaking. The process is very interesting, given that once they microblast the truss structure, they will have to repaint it almost immediately or else risk oxidation to the steel underneath.

    We are working on a blog that will detail some of the more intricacies of the operation since it's really a fascinating study. Will also be pitching articles to architecture/engineering and gardening trade magazines, and of course, will keep Steve informed along the way.

    Remember, the Crystal Bridge reglazing was already already set prior to the Devon funds becoming available. Originally, they had hoped to have the Crystal Bridge reopened by Downtown in December this year, but now with the new additions to the park and the Crystal Bridge itself (new south plaza/visitor entry way), they are putting off re-opening until the outdoor grounds are completed, on or around Festival of the Arts, 2011. This will also give them plenty of time to get the plant life reestablished and back to health (some plants don't like the stress of moving and it takes them awhile to reestablish them).

  18. #168

    Default Re: Project 180

    Thanks, any chance you can CC OKCTalk c/o Pete on your press release list for updates?

  19. #169

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Thanks, any chance you can CC OKCTalk c/o Pete on your press release list for updates?
    Either that, or I will post update notices when we get the blog up and running. We'll have an RSS feed feature from there. Of course, this is all dependent upon my figuring out WordPress. HA!

  20. #170

    Default Re: Project 180

    Cool, pics would be appreciated as would any updated renderings, etc.

  21. #171

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Cool, pics would be appreciated as would any updated renderings, etc.
    Pics we can def do. Renderings will be up to another office, not mine. But we'll post as much as we can to the blog. Will let you know here when we've updated.

  22. #172

    Default Re: Project 180

    Quote Originally Posted by FritterGirl View Post
    This should help answer some of those questions: --> Construction FAQ

    I don't have a full timeline of the outdoor grounds. Demolition will begin in the next several days, but they are still waiting on bids and speccing out details of some of the integral features within the redesign. (Really getting to the nitty-gritty of preferred building materials for restaurant, etc.)

    I can tell you that the Crystal Bridge project alone will take approximately 6-8 months. They will start at the north end, working one area at a time and work their way south, almost in a domino effect. They will NOT remove the 3,000 panels at one time, preferring to work in sections. This is for the protection of the plants, as well as for efficiency in the reglazing process, which is actually a fairly complex undertaking. The process is very interesting, given that once they microblast the truss structure, they will have to repaint it almost immediately or else risk oxidation to the steel underneath.

    We are working on a blog that will detail some of the more intricacies of the operation since it's really a fascinating study. Will also be pitching articles to architecture/engineering and gardening trade magazines, and of course, will keep Steve informed along the way.

    Remember, the Crystal Bridge reglazing was already already set prior to the Devon funds becoming available. Originally, they had hoped to have the Crystal Bridge reopened by Downtown in December this year, but now with the new additions to the park and the Crystal Bridge itself (new south plaza/visitor entry way), they are putting off re-opening until the outdoor grounds are completed, on or around Festival of the Arts, 2011. This will also give them plenty of time to get the plant life reestablished and back to health (some plants don't like the stress of moving and it takes them awhile to reestablish them).
    Hi Frittergirl! I worked for the firm that did the inital tube improvements and ADA updates originally and did all the drawings of the exisiting conditions, and was my task to field verify everything in the building including the paths. Then did all of the initial renovation drawings with the elevators and renovation to the skywalk. I have to say that was probably the single hardest evaluation of existing conditions I have ever and hope to ever have to do...as everything beyond the structural elements were done by artists and by hand to be as realistic as possible you can begin to guess how difficult that was. But on a certain level it was fun, as I have always loved that space. They were some of the most fun I had drawing building sections for that got to show some serious entorage greyed out that was important for visual orientation. Fun times!

    By chance do you work with them (GSB) just curious. I am excited to see this finally reach its full potential! It has looked so poor for so long that (good from a distance but up close...dang!) it will be so great to see it treated with the dignity that it deserves!

    I will be excited to see the updates that you can provide! Thanks again!

  23. Default Re: Project 180

    Frittergirl is not with GSB, but she definitely knows what she's talking about. Metro, I've published Myriad Gardens sketches on OKC Central and will gladly repost them - and since they belong to the city, feel free to repost them here at OKC Talk.
    Thanks for reminding us to keep that art out front...

  24. Default Re: Project 180

    thanks for the excellent information Frittergirl. I have another question, what will they do with the fish that is inside the gardens lake?

    I think the fish is a rather unique feature of the park and when I visit the city I have regularly gone down to feed the fish my leftovers (haha). Those guys are so huge, compared to when I lived in the city back pre-1991, and there seemed to be lots of families of fish.

    I assume they can't just put up a tarp over the work-areas to stop debris from falling into the lake, will they not have to drain it and possibly re-design the lake? If so, what will they do with the fish and how will they catch them?

    Thanks for the insight.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  25. #175

    Default Re: Project 180

    They have already pulled out over 2,000* fish from the outdoor lake. Any game fish were taken to other local waters within the Parks Department, including the Oklahoma River. The Japanese Koi were removed separately and are being housed in a safe location where they can be monitored.

    *This 2,000 figure was before Arts Festival. Since then, they've begun the process of draining the lake and more fish have been removed. Not sure the total number.

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