New OCU Law School (dead)

[jbrown84]

Have any of you spent 10 minutes in that area? My personal opinion is the OCU folks realized what a huge mistake it would be to put faculty and students in one of the worst areas of town. Who in their right mind would want to go there every day and have to deal with the homeless, panhandlers, and mentally ill people roaming the streets? It is truly scary down there.

Wow. Hardly one of the worst areas of town...

[bombermwc]

Agreed jbrown...and uh earlywine, have you driven around OCU...ever? Did you miss the crack houses just a few blocks north of the school? Just beacuse they have a house, doesn't mean they are safer. Why do you think OCU has more security guards per student than any other school in the state?

[Kerry]

This is what bothers me about the whole thing. The economic situation is exactly the same as it was when they announced the plans. There has to be something else to this.

It is the coming collapse in the cost of higher education. The modern university model is built on debt and it is coming to an end real soon. What happened to housing industry is about to happen to higher education and some schools are getting ready for it, and some aren't.

http://reason.com/blog/2010/06/08/is...n-bubble-about

There is a reason the feds are taking over the student loan program. They know it is about to burst and don't want banks on the hook for billions in bad loans. Plus, it will allow the bubble to build just a little longer - but it will burst.

[OKCMallen]

That would have left Sarkey empty. I don't know many universities that want empty buildings of that size.

I think the idea was to move/start theology in the Sarkey's building.

[OKCMallen]

Well... most of the lawyers I see at librairies graduated before statehood.

Like I said, you don't need them much. Lawyers starting out that can't afford/don't want to spend money on expensive online research benefit greatly from habing free access to a law library.

[OKCMallen]

Of course I have seen the rankings before and the tiers but in my mind, street cred isn't the best term to use. That's all I have to say, don't want this to be an argument about street cred/reputation.

I was speaking to the fact that OKCU Law led everyone to believe they were intent on moving downtown, and then abruptly pulled a 180. That's the street cred I meant. Next time they want to make a big move or something, people might remember, that's all.

As to their ranking, tiers, academic reputation, etc: that all speaks for itself.

[PennyQuilts]

I was speaking to the fact that OKCU Law led everyone to believe they were intent on moving downtown, and then abruptly pulled a 180.

They tied the move to certain events taking place and those events didn't take place. Be fair. The fact that people didn't pay attention to the details of the proposal is a reflection on them, not the University.

[OKCMallen]

They tied the move to certain events taking place and those events didn't take place. Be fair. The fact that people didn't pay attention to the details of the proposal is a reflection on them, not the University.

How is that? The artcile, quoting president Henry, says it was an active decision to focus funds on scholarships and professors due to the economic downturn. That sounds like a 180 to me.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

They tied the move to certain events taking place and those events didn't take place. Be fair. The fact that people didn't pay attention to the details of the proposal is a reflection on them, not the University.

What events didn't take place?

[PennyQuilts]

What events didn't take place?

See Number 21, as I understand it.

Here's the deal - I'm an alum and have been pretty close to certain faculty. If I hadn't read about this in the paper and on this board, I wouldn't have even known they were considering this. I contacted one of the professors who is involved in just about everything at the school and he didn't even know about it. I had to gave him a link so he could read it for himself. The staff hadn't even been brought into the loop when it was already being discussed in the press.

I went through the fund fraising for Sarkeys and this one didn't even get started compared to that. Some people were leaning that way but until I get a letter asking for money, as far as I am concerned, this was still in the realm of "do you guys think this is a good idea?" My personal belief is that no donors were interested and this never got any traction beyond hopes and dreams on the part of a small group. Whatever the community thought, a reading of what has been quoted in the press never said they were definitely going - it has been in the planning, consideration stage.

[DirtLaw]

See Number 21, as I understand it.

Here's the deal - I'm an alum and have been pretty close to certain faculty. If I hadn't read about this in the paper and on this board, I wouldn't have even known they were considering this. I contacted one of the professors who is involved in just about everything at the school and he didn't even know about it. I had to gave him a link so he could read it for himself. The staff hadn't even been brought into the loop when it was already being discussed in the press.

I went through the fund fraising for Sarkeys and this one didn't even get started compared to that. Some people were leaning that way but until I get a letter asking for money, as far as I am concerned, this was still in the realm of "do you guys think this is a good idea?" My personal belief is that no donors were interested and this never got any traction beyond hopes and dreams on the part of a small group. Whatever the community thought, a reading of what has been quoted in the press never said they were definitely going - it has been in the planning, consideration stage.

You did not know they were considering what?? The move to downtown?

[PennyQuilts]

You did not know they were considering what?? The move to downtown?

I knew they were considering it because of what I read in the paper and from this board. When I contacted faculty to get the inside story (since I hadn't heard from the law school and I would expect to), the professor that I spoke to had not even heard about it. They hadn't even briefed the staff before they went public. Now, that was months ago and since that time they have been filled in. But I have not had any requests for funds (and this is highly unusual).

Anyway, here's a site, just if anyone is interested, about when they signed the notice of intent to negotiate. http://law.okcu.edu/index.php/hotnew...move-downtown/ That is pretty much as far as it has gone.

I am going to somewhat backtrack on my hard line about the school giving the wrong impression. My personal belief, is that a small group got out there without really covering their bases ahead of time. This is a really, really bad time to be hitting up donors. But they knew that last year.

[DirtLaw]

I knew they were considering it because of what I read in the paper and from this board. When I contacted faculty to get the inside story (since I hadn't heard from the law school and I would expect to), the professor that I spoke to had not even heard about it. They hadn't even briefed the staff before they went public. Now, that was months ago and since that time they have been filled in. But I have not had any requests for funds (and this is highly unusual).

Anyway, here's a site, just if anyone is interested, about when they signed the notice of intent to negotiate. http://law.okcu.edu/index.php/hotnew...move-downtown/ That is pretty much as far as it has gone.

I am going to somewhat backtrack on my hard line about the school giving the wrong impression. My personal belief, is that a small group got out there without really covering their bases ahead of time. This is a really, really bad time to be hitting up donors. But they knew that last year.

Well I think the prof may just be out of the loop. There were feasibility studies done and I know someone that is starting there in the fall and at his summer intro gathering they mentioned that there was a good chance that by the time his class graduates they will be in the new building or at least starting the move. In the recent alumni magazine there was an article about the move downtown.

[OKCMallen]

Signing a letter of intent to lease all that space is a pretty big move, Penny. That's beyond just spitballing, isn't it?

At any rate, I am still disappointed. I think it would have been awesome.

[PennyQuilts]

Signing a letter of intent to lease all that space is a pretty big move, Penny. That's beyond just spitballing, isn't it?

At any rate, I am still disappointed. I think it would have been awesome.

They signed a letter of intent with only an agreement to negotiate. So says the article. I am sorry the whole situation went the way it did. Personally, it matters not to me if it went downtown. I was too busy working to get an education and was glad it was close enough that I could balance family and school. I worked downtown in school and it honestly never crossed my mind that the school's current location was a drawback.

[architect5311]

...As well as going thru the process of interviewing and selecting an architectural firm for the project.

[Spartan]

...As well as going thru the process of interviewing and selecting an architectural firm for the project.

See, that's what I'm thinking. I see this as a COMPLETE reversal of policy, and I don't think it's any coincidence with OCU's new president coming in. The new guy hasn't been around in a while and he obviously doesn't have Tom McDaniel's commitment to downtown, although that could be spun as a good thing for OCU--fresh eyes, and willing to put OCU's needs ahead of downtown's. Though, I just thought Tom McDaniel did a LOT for OCU and was on to a really good idea.

Am I wrong in thinking this? Honestly, I'm surprised we are debating how seriously OCU was looking into this anyway. And it could have just been that OCU wasn't about to start a huge fundraising campaign until investments improved a little more because it wasn't necessary..they were going to be renting the facility from Fred Jones, who would renovate it for them. It was a heck of a deal.

[Larry OKC]

They tied the move to certain events taking place and those events didn't take place. Be fair. The fact that people didn't pay attention to the details of the proposal is a reflection on them, not the University.

Which events didn't take place? It was tied to MAPS 3 passing (it did) and the Streetcar route connecting the Campus to the Fred Jones building (yet to be determined but with McDaniels as the head of the Citizen Oversight Committee, this one seemed to be in the bag.

[Comm'l Real Estate Guy]

See, that's what I'm thinking. I see this as a COMPLETE reversal of policy, and I don't think it's any coincidence with OCU's new president coming in. The new guy hasn't been around in a while and he obviously doesn't have Tom McDaniel's commitment to downtown, although that could be spun as a good thing for OCU--fresh eyes, and willing to put OCU's needs ahead of downtown's. Though, I just thought Tom McDaniel did a LOT for OCU and was on to a really good idea.

Am I wrong in thinking this? Honestly, I'm surprised we are debating how seriously OCU was looking into this anyway. And it could have just been that OCU wasn't about to start a huge fundraising campaign until investments improved a little more because it wasn't necessary..they were going to be renting the facility from Fred Jones, who would renovate it for them. It was a heck of a deal.

Exactly.

[OKCMallen]

I agree with Spartan on this one. One president wanted it. The new one didn't.

And Penny, it's not just OCU Law's location that's meh. The facility is very meh, as well.

[earlywinegareth]

Here's a link to Steve's story in the Oklahoman back in Nov 09: http://newsok.com/ocu-officials-plan...rticle/3418328

[PennyQuilts]

I agree with Spartan on this one. One president wanted it. The new one didn't.

And Penny, it's not just OCU Law's location that's meh. The facility is very meh, as well.

You'd have more to go on than I would since Sarkeys didn't open until after I left. I was still in the Gold Star building (but I loved it).

[DirtLaw]

I agree with Spartan on this one. One president wanted it. The new one didn't.

And Penny, it's not just OCU Law's location that's meh. The facility is very meh, as well.

Sarkeys is not too bad, it is just not too nice either. Having a facility with the library attached would be nice to have. I never used the library after my 1L years, but maybe if it was attached I would have. (not that the gold star is far from Sarkeys, but I just never used it)

[OKCMallen]

Gold Star is a very cool building. Even though it's older and the space isn't modern, it's a lot neater and has more character than Sarkey's. Sarkey's is just very blah. A new facility could have been awesome, and that space in Sarkey's could have been used easily by any number of lecture-based departments.

[Spartan]

The Fred Jones plant would have a lot more similar to the Gold Star than Sarkey's.