Wheeler District

[d-usa]

Is Phase 1 accurately represented in the renderings?

[LakeEffect]

Is Phase 1 accurately represented in the renderings?

Phase 1 is barely visible in the middle image. All of the housing along Runway is essentially the same as Phase 1, I believe.

[stjohn]

Sure, eventually, but when does Phase 2 start? Before the close of the decade? The discussion above was about the houses for sale today.

[bradh]

I pay HOA fees in my neighborhood. No club house and no pool. There is a massive block long brick wall that we have insurance coverage on (liability in case someone runs into it), plus pay for landscape upkeep at the entrances.

You live in Camden Place?

[Bellaboo]

You live in Camden Place?

Nope, Kingsridge in Yukon.

[HangryHippo]

Thus, one would expect those to have all the transects from town center density through less dense rural.

Wheeler isn't. It's in the middle of an existing city close to the urban center of that existing city. It's somewhat hard to explain in New Urbanist principles why it too would have a cross section of transects like a new town springing up apart from other development. It seems to be striving to be a New Urbanist neighborhood within the city, without much regard to where it is in the existing city itself. I'm not sure that's good or bad. It just is what it is.

I see your point now and it actually makes a lot of sense.

Urbanized - I’m very curious to hear your thoughts on this.

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Simple: it's not ALL of the transects. It's not even close.

Even the most "suburban" portions of development will still be among the most dense housing in the city, the state, even the region. As cafeboeuf points out, the least-dense parts of Wheeler will still as dense or more likely significantly MORE dense than OKC's close-in historic neighborhoods.

As the neighborhood matures it will resemble traditional neighborhoods clustered around a commercial center, or even a village that has been swallowed up by a larger city. Think Boston's North End, or Back Bay, Beacon Hill. Think Georgetown in D.C..

Even in OKC there are examples - though not perfect thanks to when they developed or thanks to poorly-considered changes made since inception - of more walkable (always historic) neighborhoods of more closely-clustered homes, which give way to more dense multi family, which in turn give way to commercial. The best probably being Classen-Ten-Penn/Gatewood giving way to Plaza. There once was a Piggly Wiggly, a TG&Y AND an Anthony's, in addition of course to a theater. All were eminently walkable from the surrounding dense neighborhoods.

Sure, some people drove from elsewhere - the car was already a massive influence when this neighborhood developed - but a huge part of the commercial district's business came from nearby homes, with many people walking there. If they needed something they couldn't get in the district, pre-WW2 they would walk a few blocks, catch the streetcar and ride downtown.

Places like Capitol Hill and NW 23rd/Paseo/Jefferson Park still have remnants of this lifestyle.

The point of a well-considered New Urbanist community isn't to build a continuous multistory repetitive street wall that eventually repeats all of the way to the CBD. The point in a develop like this one is to create a node of activity; a self-contained area that offers multiple living options but ALL of them walkable to goods, services, entertainment and employment options, which in turn connect to the larger community. This would hopefully then be replicated by other developments in the city, also including some walkable suburban retrofits.

Optimally in the future all of this could be connected via a robust transportation network. Yes, we are of course talking about something that will take decades if not generations, but recall that the destruction of unchecked sprawl also happened over the course of multiple generations. It's going to take a while for our city to knit itself back together, but this is a start.

[HangryHippo]

^^^^^^^
Simple: it's not ALL of the transects. It's not even close.

Even the most "suburban" portions of development will still be among the most dense housing in the city, the state, even the region. As cafeboeuf points out, the least-dense parts of Wheeler will still as dense or more likely significantly MORE dense than OKC's close-in historic neighborhoods.

As the neighborhood matures it will resemble traditional neighborhoods clustered around a commercial center, or even a village that has been swallowed up by a larger city. Think Boston's North End, or Back Bay, Beacon Hill. Think Georgetown in D.C..

Even in OKC there are examples - though not perfect thanks to when they developed or thanks to poorly-considered changes made since inception - of more walkable (always historic) neighborhoods of more closely-clustered homes, which give way to more dense multi family, which in turn give way to commercial. The best probably being Classen-Ten-Penn/Gatewood giving way to Plaza. There once was a Piggly Wiggly, a TG&Y AND an Anthony's, in addition of course to a theater. All were eminently walkable from the surrounding dense neighborhoods.

Sure, some people drove from elsewhere - the car was already a massive influence when this neighborhood developed - but a huge part of the commercial district's business came from nearby homes, with many people walking there. If they needed something they couldn't get in the district, pre-WW2 they would walk a few blocks, catch the streetcar and ride downtown.

Places like Capitol Hill and NW 23rd/Paseo/Jefferson Park still have remnants of this lifestyle.

The point of a well-considered New Urbanist community isn't to build a continuous multistory repetitive street wall that eventually repeats all of the way to the CBD. The point in a develop like this one is to create a node of activity; a self-contained area that offers multiple living options but ALL of them walkable to goods, services, entertainment and employment options, which in turn connect to the larger community. This would hopefully then be replicated by other developments in the city, also including some walkable suburban retrofits.

Optimally in the future all of this could be connected via a robust transportation network. Yes, we are of course talking about something that will take decades if not generations, but recall that the destruction of unchecked sprawl also happened over the course of multiple generations. It's going to take a while for our city to knit itself back together, but this is a start.

Thanks for the reply. I learn so much from your posts and really appreciate them.

[Urbanized]

Thanks for the reply. I learn so much from your posts and really appreciate them.

Thanks Nick! Happy to help wherever I can.

[mkjeeves]

....

The point of a well-considered New Urbanist community isn't to build a continuous multistory repetitive street wall that eventually repeats all of the way to the CBD. The point in a develop like this one is to create a node of activity; a self-contained area that offers multiple living options but ALL of them walkable to goods, services, entertainment and employment options, which in turn connect to the larger community. This would hopefully then be replicated by other developments in the city, also including some walkable suburban retrofits.

Optimally in the future all of this could be connected via a robust transportation network. Yes, we are of course talking about something that will take decades if not generations, but recall that the destruction of unchecked sprawl also happened over the course of multiple generations. It's going to take a while for our city to knit itself back together, but this is a start.

Bingo. This has to be embraced for New Urbanism to have any real effect in the grand scheme.

[Urbanized]

Bingo. This has to be embraced for New Urbanism to have any real effect in the grand scheme.

Agreed. I think this can/will be the jumping off point for that. It's the reason I'm so enthusiastic about this particular development, in fact. I think it will be a reset point for consumer tastes in OKC and will be the spark which allows us to remake this city as a healthier, more efficient place, and one that offers a wide variety of living options rather than just a very few. We might not live to see the finished product, but then again, cities are living organisms that are never "finished," anyway.

[Urbanized]

Double post.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^

[LakeEffect]

^^

Double!

Also, if you look at this in context, the edges on the southwest side of Wheeler, with the single-family dwellings, are context sensitive to the adjacent existing neighborhoods. It wouldn't be fair to them to suddenly have something like the density of a T6, T5, or even a T4 right next to them. It makes sense to build up density and height in an orderly, transect-based manner. The transect map, as planned, is below. It shows how this will be context sensitive across the potential development area.

[Urbanized]

Double!

Also, if you look at this in context, the edges on the southwest side of Wheeler, with the single-family dwellings, are context sensitive to the adjacent existing neighborhoods. It wouldn't be fair to them to suddenly have something like the density of a T6, T5, or even a T4 right next to them. It makes sense to build up density and height in an orderly, transect-based manner. The transect map, as planned, is below. It shows how this will be context sensitive across the potential development area.

This is an EXCELLENT point. The layers of thought that went into the planning of this development are really impressive.

[Rover]

What are the chances Strawberry Fields develops this way vs. haphazard development? Seems to me we need them to work together... as Urbanized says, knitted together. What can we do RIGHT NOW to help require it? Don't want to be complaining later because we didn't act NOW.

[onthestrip]

Kirk Humphreys on TV equating homosexuality to pedophilia. Yikes! This cant be good for business.

http://kfor.com/2017/12/10/flash-poi...raels-capital/

[dankrutka]

Kirk Humphreys on TV equating homosexuality to pedophilia. Yikes! This cant be good for business.

http://kfor.com/2017/12/10/flash-poi...raels-capital/

Humphries should step down from the OU Board of Regents. How are you supposed to help lead a university when you spew bigotry towards LGBTQ faculty, students, and staff? I mean, he literally thinks two adults in a consensual, committed relationship is the same as molesting children.

Maybe my best professor during my time at OU (which was a long time since I earned three degrees there), was a gay professor. He was an incredibly gifted, thoughtful, and committed educator and scholar. Humphries would prevent incredible people like him from even applying to OU. It's abhorent and unacceptable, but as much as anything, it hurts the ability of the university to attract and retain faculty, students, and staff. A higher percentage of LGBTQ people are in academia specifically because it seems to be a more inclusive and accepting space than many other employment opportunities. If not for moral reasons, he should step down because he's now bad for OU's business and brand.

Just another black eye for Oklahoma education.

[HangryHippo]

I'm shocked by his comments! Yikes.

[catcherinthewry]

I'm sure this will be moved to another forum, but I totally agree. Kirk should not be a regent if he thinks a portion of the population (in general and at OU) is "wrong". There's no place for that kind of intolerance.

Does anyone know how I can voice my disapproval to the regents?

[BoulderSooner]

I'm sure this will be moved to another forum, but I totally agree. Kirk should not be a regent if he thinks a portion of the population (in general and at OU) is "wrong". There's no place for that kind of intolerance.

Does anyone know how I can voice my disapproval to the regents?

I don’t think intolerance means what some of you think it means

[HangryHippo]

I don’t think intolerance means what some of you think it means

Well thank God you're here to enlighten us with your in-depth responses.

[dankrutka]

I don’t think intolerance means what some of you think it means

This isn't just about tolerance. It's about bigotry. The logical legal extention of Humphries comments is that he believes that members of OU's LGBTQ community are commiting a crime and should be jailed by engaging in consensual adult relationships akin to molestation.

Bigotry does not fall within the realm of deserving "tolerance" because it is an affront to the very concept. He is welcome to hold these beliefs and not act on them, but he just should not be in a public position of leadership.

[Buffalo Bill]

This isn't just about tolerance. It's about bigotry. The logical legal extention of Humphries comments is that he believes that members of OU's LGBTQ community are commiting a crime and should be jailed by engaging in consensual adult relationships akin to molestation.

Bigotry does not fall within the realm of deserving "tolerance" because it is an affront to the very concept. He is welcome to hold these beliefs and not act on them, but he just should not be in a public position of leadership.

At least OU has student leaders to compensate for the idiots on the Board of Regents.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JD__Baker...35326214471681

[BoulderSooner]

That is not a logical extention of his comments at all