Wheeler District

[Richard at Remax]

This is why I've never had warm and fuzzies about this development being built to what is planned.

[jbrown84]

It may have been forgotten and depressed, but it is very close to the new Central Park so it will be a very desirable location in the near future. If Blair doesn't want to develop it w/o a boat load of corporate welfare I'm sure someone else will.

Someone may, sure, in like 30-40 years and it will be of much lesser quality.

[Spartan]

That is just a ridiculous statement. Are Penn and Walker terrifying speedways as well? Western does not HAVE to be rebuilt. Blair WANTS it to be rebuilt for the benefit of his development. I get that, he's a businessman. He's looking out for himself. But be doesn't seem to care that Western is a major north/south artery for the south side. A TIF should benefit, or at very least, not cause harm to the entire city, not just a developer and a small number of residents.

I agree, when those corridors cross the river, they're pretty terrifying as well. Walker is widely known as the quickest way through to 240, so those drivers are typically going 50+. Penn has truck traffic from all the nearby industry west and southwest of downtown.

I recognize that there is an impending clash between further-south commuters and proponents of this project, but I think it's a worthy fight. The south side has always been disconnected from downtown and cut off from prosperity in the rest of OKC.

I think walkability is a key way to create value in a community, and conversely these kinds of speedways are a major detrimental land influence. I also think it's really important to invest in economic development on Western if OKC is ever going to reduce unemployment on the south side, address crime and blight, and combat job sprawl that is leaving behind low-income residents. No other developer would have even considered connecting this project to the surrounding street grid, which is going to be an issue he'll need to overcome, but will also seriously help improve surrounding areas. You should go take a trip through the Will Rogers hood and see what I'm talking about.

I don't think anyone is going to touch this deal unless they get a bigger TIF and happen to think like Blair, which is rare. On one hand it's an amazing site he got for cheap and a natural progression of downtown, but on the other hand it's a brownfield adjacent to one of the city's most notorious public housing areas, and bifurcated by an ugly speedway.

Is OKC going to be a crappy metro with a great downtown, or is OKC going to look at broader revitalization? Toward that end, we need to start realizing that the south side is at least half of the metro.

[catcherinthewry]

I agree, when those corridors cross the river, they're pretty terrifying as well. Walker is widely known as the quickest way through to 240, so those drivers are typically going 50+. Penn has truck traffic from all the nearby industry west and southwest of downtown.

Spartan, you remind me of Trump the way you spout things as fact that are patently untrue. As someone who actually lives on the south side I can honestly say you are just making things up to support your argument.

I also think it's really important to invest in economic development on Western if OKC is ever going to reduce unemployment on the south side, address crime and blight, and combat job sprawl that is leaving behind low-income residents.

I must've missed that all things would be solved by the Wheeler District. Do you think Blair can think outside of OKC and bring world peace?

On one hand it's an amazing site he got for cheap and a natural progression of downtown, but on the other hand it's a brownfield

I'm all for helping him with the brownfield, but after that he should do what is asked of every other developer in OKC.

[ABCOKC]

Someone may, sure, in like 30-40 years and it will be of much lesser quality.

Exactly. This board talks a lot about a need for quality, and stopping bad developments. But IMO this has to be a carrot and stick situation. Of course, if a project is bad for the city we want to disincentivize it. But if OKC is serious about wanting high-quality development then we have to be prepared to reward developers who propose and build things like this.

If Wheeler is built as planned it will be, as far as I can tell, a world-class model of urbanism as well as a great place to live; and the developer isn't trying to quarantine it from its sketchy surroundings, but is actually embracing them! This is exactly the type of development we should be prepared to incentivize more heavily than we would a typical housing proposal.

We can argue the specifics of what is a reasonable amount of TIF and so on, but to treat this like a new subdivision out by 164th and Rockwell is insanity.

[Bellaboo]

^^^ + 1 ^^^

[onthestrip]

Exactly. This board talks a lot about a need for quality, and stopping bad developments. But IMO this has to be a carrot and stick situation. Of course, if a project is bad for the city we want to disincentivize it. But if OKC is serious about wanting high-quality development then we have to be prepared to reward developers who propose and build things like this.

If Wheeler is built as planned it will be, as far as I can tell, a world-class model of urbanism as well as a great place to live; and the developer isn't trying to quarantine it from its sketchy surroundings, but is actually embracing them! This is exactly the type of development we should be prepared to incentivize more heavily than we would a typical housing proposal.

We can argue the specifics of what is a reasonable amount of TIF and so on, but to treat this like a new subdivision out by 164th and Rockwell is insanity.

Of course it will be different, mostly because it will be much more dense, which likely makes it more profitable when scaled to 164th and Rockwell neighborhoods. The road isnt any more expensive in Wheeler as it is in the burbs, but in Wheeler they will be fitting many more housing units along that new road. So I dont get the $60 million in TIF. I can certainly understand some, but $60 mil is just an incredible amount for something that isnt much different than in the burbs, other than more density, sidewalks, and and some green space.

[TexanOkie]

Of course it will be different, mostly because it will be much more dense, which likely makes it more profitable when scaled to 164th and Rockwell neighborhoods. The road isnt any more expensive in Wheeler as it is in the burbs, but in Wheeler they will be fitting many more housing units along that new road. So I dont get the $60 million in TIF. I can certainly understand some, but $60 mil is just an incredible amount for something that isnt much different than in the burbs, other than more density, sidewalks, and and some green space.

The increased density and urban design does bring with it it increased design costs and public infrastructure costs compared to suburban development. It's also a riskier proposition for a bank to finance because of its novelty. Combine that with the fact that this is a brownfield and not a greenfield site, means that the profitability comparison is not near as direct as comparing it to a new subdivision on the northern edges of the city. The potential rewards may be greater, but it is a significantly costlier and riskier undertaking.

[Pete]

^

Not to mention, the entire area is in uncharted territory for new development, which is perhaps the biggest risk of all.

And, the spirit of TIF is to help kick-start blighted areas. That definition gets bastardized to include almost anything including properties right in the heart of downtown, but Wheeler is the perfect application for TIF.

If we don't do it here, we shouldn't be doing it anywhere.

[onthestrip]

The increased density and urban design does bring with it it increased design costs and public infrastructure costs compared to suburban development. It's also a riskier proposition for a bank to finance because of its novelty. Combine that with the fact that this is a brownfield and not a greenfield site, means that the profitability comparison is not near as direct as comparing it to a new subdivision on the northern edges of the city. The potential rewards may be greater, but it is a significantly costlier and riskier undertaking.

Didnt know smaller homes, row homes, zero lot line homes, and apartments were novelty.

Another argument against the high amount of TIF here is that this project can be done in phases that limits the risk. Build a street or two, start selling lots or building housing and sell or rent those. They do well, repeat, and add more amenities and quality of life components as you go. At least with a big retail project or a large apartment complex, you have to start it all at once which pretty much requires all your financing up front. Not so with Wheeler. The Residences at 21c will basically require $70 million at the get go, and you then have to wait a year and a half before you see a drop of return. Much riskier if you ask me than spending a few million to get some roads and utilities into a position to start selling or renting housing. If those go well, you keep going.

[Teo9969]

^

Not to mention, the entire area is in uncharted territory for new development, which is perhaps the biggest risk of all.

And, the spirit of TIF is to help kick-start blighted areas. That definition gets bastardized to include almost anything including properties right in the heart of downtown, but Wheeler is the perfect application for TIF.

If we don't do it here, we shouldn't be doing it anywhere.

Exactly this.

Even though I think the city could restructure what is currently given to, again, incentivize urgency, I think it would be a mistake to not give TIF here.

[TexanOkie]

Didnt know smaller homes, row homes, zero lot line homes, and apartments were novelty.

Another argument against the high amount of TIF here is that this project can be done in phases that limits the risk. Build a street or two, start selling lots or building housing and sell or rent those. They do well, repeat, and add more amenities and quality of life components as you go. At least with a big retail project or a large apartment complex, you have to start it all at once which pretty much requires all your financing up front. Not so with Wheeler. The Residences at 21c will basically require $70 million at the get go, and you then have to wait a year and a half before you see a drop of return. Much riskier if you ask me than spending a few million to get some roads and utilities into a position to start selling or renting housing. If those go well, you keep going.

The project is already going to be built in phases. You can't do something this size without doing it in bite-sized chunks. However, and I can't stress this enough--this is not your typical zero-lot-line residential development. It's an integrated, vertical and horizontal mixed-use environment on a scale Oklahoma has not seen since before World War II. This kind of development does not fit into the easy-to-classify boxes for traditional development financing that have become the norm since the widespread industry standardization, spread of auto-oriented zoning, and government rubberstamping of the same that has taken place over the last 70 years. In that sense, development like this is a novelty. It is especially a novelty in this part of the country.

[warreng88]

Didnt know smaller homes, row homes, zero lot line homes, and apartments were novelty.

As a loan officer at a bank who finances a lot of single family homes and land developments, I can say it is distinctly different. First of all, the location. It is not in the burbs (Edmond, piedmont, Yukon, Mustang, Moore, Norman) where most of the development is going on and that is due to schools. Banks don't know how this will work out, so the LTV will be lower and the lot takedown cost will be higher than it would be in a traditional neighborhood.

There is not a lot of development going on like this anywhere in the city, so comps will be difficult to come by. I know several developers who want to build condos downtown, but are afraid of what they are going to appraise for. Not for their sake, but for the end user. This might cause the buyer to have to bring significantly more cash to closing than a typical home.

A lot of this might be mitigated by the Humphrey's strength as guarantors, but banks will still think it is riskier. If this was the third development of its kind in the past couple of years and each of previous ones worked out well with more of these kinds of developments in the future, that would be one thing, but it is completely different than any other development in the city.

[catcherinthewry]

I know several developers who want to build condos downtown, but are afraid of what they are going to appraise for.

They should just ask the city to repay them for all of their infrastructure costs like Blair is doing. Problem solved.

[Teo9969]

They should just ask the city to repay them for all of their infrastructure costs like Blair is doing. Problem solved.

That's just absurd.

[Spartan]

Spartan, you remind me of Trump the way you spout things as fact that are patently untrue. As someone who actually lives on the south side I can honestly say you are just making things up to support your argument.




I must've missed that all things would be solved by the Wheeler District. Do you think Blair can think outside of OKC and bring world peace?



I'm all for helping him with the brownfield, but after that he should do what is asked of every other developer in OKC.

Okay, I just can't even. The south side's commercial corridors are perfect the way they are. Wheeler District will just be more of the same for the south side. And maybe some day Blair will become like all the other OKC developers, you know, doing great development all around without ANY public subsidy, and stop wasting his time with these community building projects.

[warreng88]

Wheeler district TIF gets nod

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record January 17, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – City Council members moved a step closer to a new variant in the tax increment finance district concept Tuesday to support residential and commercial development just south of the Oklahoma River.

Developer Blair Humphreys was praised repeatedly for being willing to shoulder the risk in getting the Wheeler district off the ground. Cathy O’Connor, president of The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, said the structure of the TIF district left City Hall without any moral obligation to pick up costs if Humphreys’ plan fails.

“It’s an ambitious project that represents the development of a blighted area,” O’Connor said. “But this TIF district is a little bit different from some of the other ones we have looked at in the past. … The developer will assume all of the financial risk for financing TIF improvements.”

The costs to be funded by the TIF district total $120 million, with half going toward financing assistance and the remainder for public education: the Western Gateway Elementary School and a middle school or high school as needed. O’Connor said the total private investment in the area is projected to be at least $576 million.

Oklahoma state law allows municipalities to access funds for economic development by defining a region and locking property values at a base level while setting aside ad valorem tax revenue as it naturally increases over that base over years. The additional revenue is then funneled into projects within the district, making the surrounding area more attractive for additional development. Depending on the district design, sometimes that money can be generated early with debt and paid off as the area grows.

In Wheeler’s case, officials project the ad valorem tax increase will generate about $50,000 in its early years and $11 million over the long term.

Wheeler is part of a larger proposal referred to as the Western Gateway Project reviewed by council members Tuesday. The plan divides the area along Western Avenue into two sub-districts to stagger the timing of tax revenue collections. The ordinance is set for final hearing Jan. 31.

Humphreys relocated an operating Ferris wheel to anchor the 150-acre project just north of SW 20th Street. He started buying parcels in 2006. Construction on single-family homes, apartments, town homes and condo-flats; 20,000 square feet of office space; and at least 3,000 square feet of retail or restaurants will begin early this year. Humphreys said the first families will move in early 2018.

He said that would be impossible, however, without the presence of schools nearby to serve the area.

Councilman Ed Shadid praised Humphreys with the rest of his peers on the council, although he did question the steep price tag of municipal assistance. He asked that housing be afforded for a wide range of socioeconomic levels.

Humphreys said he intends to build at least 20 percent of the residences in an affordable range with assistance via community land trusts or other government programs. Wheeler will also offer houses beginning at as little as 700 square feet for single residents or couples.

“Our hope would be that we can serve people in the 70 percent AMI (area median income) all the way up to 120,” Humphreys said. “When you go below that, you really have to start to package other federal programs in order to address the affordability issues.”

[Spartan]

Major kudos to both Blair and the city (esp O'Connor and Greenwell) for inking a great deal for OKC!

Sounds 100% promising but not totally sure the CLT model is the right affordability mechanism for OKC..that'll be interesting to see.

[aDark]

Major kudos to both Blair and the city (esp O'Connor and Greenwell) for inking a great deal for OKC!

Sounds 100% promising but not totally sure the CLT model is the right affordability mechanism for OKC..that'll be interesting to see.

Spartan, I am uncertain if your most recent comment is meant as sarcasm. You seem to be congratulating Blair and the city while just recently criticizing the same. You stated, " And maybe some day Blair will become like all the other OKC developers, you know, doing great development all around without ANY public subsidy, and stop wasting his time with these community building projects."

Are you for the Wheeler District TIF financing or against it?

[Teo9969]

Spartan, I am uncertain if your most recent comment is meant as sarcasm. You seem to be congratulating Blair and the city while just recently criticizing the same. You stated, " And maybe some day Blair will become like all the other OKC developers, you know, doing great development all around without ANY public subsidy, and stop wasting his time with these community building projects."

Are you for the Wheeler District TIF financing or against it?

I believe he's saying that the great OKC developers are all taking public incentives, so why should Blair and his team at Wheeler be any different, because he's always responding to posters who are definitely against Blair receiving public incentives (indeed, Wheeler is asking for a lot more than most developers, but it's really a completely different case.

[Spartan]

Spartan, I am uncertain if your most recent comment is meant as sarcasm. You seem to be congratulating Blair and the city while just recently criticizing the same. You stated, " And maybe some day Blair will become like all the other OKC developers, you know, doing great development all around without ANY public subsidy, and stop wasting his time with these community building projects."

Are you for the Wheeler District TIF financing or against it?

Fair question, and my apologies for the sarcasm before. I am hugely supportive of the city doing anything within its means to help Blair. The guy is a developer who gets it and cares about OKC and is clearly trying to build his legacy where no one else will go.

I'm also getting increasingly proud that Greenwell reps the ward I grew up in. It's hard to believe who he replaced..Brian Walters lol

The sarcasm earlier is bc we seemingly grant basically anyone a TIF if they can claim structured parking is vital public infrastructure. Then we absolutely balk at large TIFs for Clayco or Blair to do an actually catalytic project. It doesn't make sense. If we give a $1 million TIF on a bunch of $3-5 million dollar deals, ultimately it's no different than doing a $60-80 million TIF on a $500 million deal, on which you actually come out way ahead and produce something that is truly impossible without public help.

[LakeEffect]

The sarcasm earlier is bc we seemingly grant basically anyone a TIF if they can claim structured parking is vital public infrastructure. Then we absolutely balk at large TIFs for Clayco or Blair to do an actually catalytic project. It doesn't make sense. If we give a $1 million TIF on a bunch of $3-5 million dollar deals, ultimately it's no different than doing a $60-80 million TIF on a $500 million deal, on which you actually come out way ahead and produce something that is truly impossible without public help.

nm

[ljbab728]

O’Connor: Wheeler District development moving forward
By Cathy O’Connor
The Journal Record

The Oklahoma City Council approved a $120 million tax increment financing plan for the Western Gateway TIF District near downtown, which includes the Wheeler District, recognized by the iconic Ferris wheel on the river. The project area is east of S. Blackwelder Avenue and west of S. Walker Avenue, between the Oklahoma River on the north and Twin Creek on the south.

The Wheeler District is proposed as a vibrant, mixed-used community that will include residential and commercial development, as well as open space. The 150-acre master planned development will include as many as 2,000 units of housing. One of the goals of the development is to encourage a range of housing types including town houses, small lot single-family homes and multifamily apartments. The development will also include commercial and retail development and is designed to integrate with the existing neighborhoods by extending the street grid. Plans for the district were developed by the Humphreys Co. over the past several years, including many hours of community engagement and other forms of public input.

The tax increment financing plan calls for $60 million in infrastructure projects such as water, sewer, drainage, grading, streets and alleys, trails and bike paths. TIF will also help fund the development of a new elementary school in the area and eventually a mid/high school. It is an investment in raising a vibrant community from a blighted and economically depressed area.

The Western Gateway TIF is structured so that financing and risk are assumed by the developer. Once private development creates an incremental increase in property taxes, that increment will be used to repay the developer’s cost to finance and install infrastructure. The developer believes, as we do, that an investment in this area south of the Oklahoma River will bring success to the Wheeler District and have a ripple effect on surrounding neighborhoods.

With the approval of the City Council, Blair Humphreys plans to break ground as early as April. The development will progress over 10 phases, beginning with housing and the elementary school.
Cathy O’Connor is the president of the Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City.

[Laramie]

The Oklahoma City Council approved a $120 million tax increment financing plan for the Western Gateway TIF District near downtown, which includes the Wheeler District, recognized by the iconic Ferris wheel on the river. The project area is east of S. Blackwelder Avenue and west of S. Walker Avenue, between the Oklahoma River on the north and Twin Creek on the south.

The hurdle needed to spark the Wheeler District development. Can't wait to see the final plans on this. The area is so beautiful at night with the iconic Ferris Wheel accented by the surrounding land just waiting to be developed.

[Spartan]

Wow an April ground-breaking. Awesome to see this becoming reality.

With the parallel timing on a lot of new development in Capitol Hill, it will be very meaningful just to have tangible development moving forward here, too.

Wow an April ground-breaking. Awesome to see this becoming reality.

With the parallel timing on a lot of new development in Capitol Hill, it will be very meaningful just to have tangible development moving forward here, too.

Spartan, you remind me of Trump the way you spout things as fact that are patently untrue. As someone who actually lives on the south side I can honestly say you are just making things up to support your argument.

I must've missed that all things would be solved by the Wheeler District. Do you think Blair can think outside of OKC and bring world peace?

I'm all for helping him with the brownfield, but after that he should do what is asked of every other developer in OKC.

I had to scroll past the above post I already read while seeing the new update in this thread. While obviously I already read this, I was still surprised to see such comments. This is the kind of post that can have long-term damaging affects on your credibility, and I will keep this post in mind whenever I see your username. You're the guy who thinks the southside is fine the way it is and that the southbound roadways crossing the river are perfectly safe.

On top of that, you obviously feel strongly enough about this that you oppose this development and don't see how it's a worthy public investment for the benefit of surrounding areas. I think at that point, there just isn't much else to really say. You see things your way, I see things my way, and I will continue to think of ways of improving the southside which I do think HAS to change.

We give so much lip service to "MAPS FOR Neighborhoods," but what neighborhoods? Obviously "neighborhoods" only means certain neighborhoods of the city. On the bright side, the fact that this is a done deal and moving forward, means that at least the City is actually trying here. That means a lot.