Wheeler District

[wunderkind]

No kidding on this - scratching my head as to what need it meets in those with constant negative/critical comments. Like, OK- then, don't live there. As Chris Rock said (years ago) about people hating on rap music: "Its not FOR you!"

[Ginkasa]

What is in the mind of this massive group of people that feel compelled to express their hatred for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You don't like it, then don't buy there, don't eat there, don't spend your money there... That type of anger has to come from a place of deep unhappiness.

I think that's overstating it a bit. Its the internet - an headline read quickly while scrolling during a lunch break. Posting a comment with the first thought on one's mind costs nothing and is done quickly and easily. The culture incentivizes opinions be communicated in as inflammatory a manner as possible, no matter how initially innocuous. There are surely people who do fulfill the rage-filled internet troll stereotype in their daily lives, but for the most part I expect people who comment even very negatively live fulfilling lives and are just expressing their own personal views in the way the current culture has taught them to.

(which isn't to say I agree with the specific negative views on Wheeler or that I enjoy negative nancies on the internet; I'm just saying I wouldn't assume someone's personality and life situation just from an internet comment)

[Pete]

I think that's overstating it a bit. Its the internet - an headline read quickly while scrolling during a lunch break. Posting a comment with the first thought on one's mind costs nothing and is done quickly and easily. The culture incentivizes opinions be communicated in as inflammatory a manner as possible, no matter how initially innocuous. There are surely people who do fulfill the rage-filled internet troll stereotype in their daily lives, but for the most part I expect people who comment even very negatively live fulfilling lives and are just expressing their own personal views in the way the current culture has taught them to.

(which isn't to say I agree with the specific negative views on Wheeler or that I enjoy negative nancies on the internet; I'm just saying I wouldn't assume someone's personality and life situation just from an internet comment)

Fair enough, however...

Something has to be inside for it to come out.

The internet just removes a filter, similar to drinking. And there have been studies that confirm the old adage, "Drunk words are sober thoughts".

[soonerguru]

It's a small mind that can't comprehend how different people like different things at different stages in life.

I love this development but I just spent 25 years in incredibly dense areas and I'm very happy on my centrally-located 1/3 acre with 20 mature trees. At the same time, I completely understand the appeal of Wheeler and why people want to live downtown. I also understand they don't need all 1.5 million people in the OKC area to want to live in the Wheeler District, just a few thousand and clearly they are having no trouble selling homes and drawing businesses.

I also highly doubt any of those people have even bothered to walk around down there and take it all in because there is no way not to be impressed, even if you don't want to buy a home there.


What is in the mind of this massive group of people that feel compelled to express their hatred for something that has absolutely nothing to do with them? You don't like it, then don't buy there, don't eat there, don't spend your money there... That type of anger has to come from a place of deep unhappiness.

Or envy.

One thing I noticed on that thread that a lot of the people said things like, "I don't want to live that close to other people." Well, fine, don't, lol. I mean, there are plenty of places in the country to move to if you are so inclined.

Also, a lot of Okies really don't like new things, and are seemingly repelled by them.

[PhiAlpha]

Or envy.

One thing I noticed on that thread that a lot of the people said things like, "I don't want to live that close to other people." Well, fine, don't, lol. I mean, there are plenty of places in the country to move to if you are so inclined.

Also, a lot of Okies really don't like new things, and are seemingly repelled by them.

but…but…but…WHERE WILL THEY ALL PARK?!?!?

[PhiAlpha]

The OKC page on Reddit is convinced this will be a massive failure.

LOL. And yet…it’s already a success.

[Pete]

Not only is Wheeler a success, but it's a huge success.

They are selling homes as fast as they can be built, have lured nice restaurants, services and retailers, constructed an elementary school... And they are just getting started.


It may not be for you but anyone trying to argue it is not wildly successful reveals themselves to be ignorant.

[Just the facts]

I think that's overstating it a bit. Its the internet - an headline read quickly while scrolling during a lunch break. Posting a comment with the first thought on one's mind costs nothing and is done quickly and easily. The culture incentivizes opinions be communicated in as inflammatory a manner as possible, no matter how initially innocuous. There are surely people who do fulfill the rage-filled internet troll stereotype in their daily lives, but for the most part I expect people who comment even very negatively live fulfilling lives and are just expressing their own personal views in the way the current culture has taught them to.

(which isn't to say I agree with the specific negative views on Wheeler or that I enjoy negative nancies on the internet; I'm just saying I wouldn't assume someone's personality and life situation just from an internet comment)

Every on-line article should have a 3 question quiz about the article that the reader must pass with a 100% score before being allowed to comment.

[Pete]

I've been active on the Internet almost since inception. I've run several forums even before OKCTalk. I've met dozens and dozens of people IRL that I first met electronically.

And one thing I've learned is this: Anyone who says, "I'm not really an a-hole but I like to play that role online" really is an a-hole that can maintain in-person niceties on a superficial level but is generally an angry and hateful person. Not all the time and not exclusively, but those qualities are an integral part of the personality.

I believe very, very strongly that the internet just removes a filter. And as I said before, something has to be inside before it can come out. So much so that when I find myself getting angry or impolite online, I try very hard to stop and remind myself that is not who I want to be; I try to take responsibility, own my actions, grow, and be a better person.

So, to dismiss very ugly comments as "just being on the internet" is to remove accountability for words and actions. And the more a person does that, the more they are indulging their own worst impulses without restraint or healthy examination, and the cycle feeds on itself.

[Rover]

Kind of interesting. I thought all wheeler properties were tied into geothermal?

Geothermal hvac still requires electricity to run compressors, fans, etc. Photovoltaic solar panels produce electricity. They are very complementary.

[warreng88]

I have a friend and former coworker that years ago drove by this and was talking to me about it. She said no one should live that close to their neighbors and every needs a big backyard because people have pets. I ended up wasting about 30 minutes of my time explaining why it is a great development when I should have just said, "if you don't like it, don't live there but don't tell other people what they are supposed to and not supposed to like. If I had the money, I would move there in a minute, but I don't".

[Urbanized]

I have a friend and former coworker that years ago drove by this and was talking to me about it. She said no one should live that close to their neighbors and every needs a big backyard because people have pets. I ended up wasting about 30 minutes of my time explaining why it is a great development when I should have just said, "if you don't like it, don't live there but don't tell other people what they are supposed to and not supposed to like. If I had the money, I would move there in a minute, but I don't".

She’d probably be shocked by how many people in high rise apartments have pets.

[warreng88]

She’d probably be shocked by how many people in high rise apartments have pets.

Yep. I told her my brother lives in Brooklyn with two mid-size dogs in a 600 sf apartment. It is doable...

And again, it doesn't f&*king matter. Why does someone have to hate on something they have absolutely no intention of buying because they don't like it?

Sorry Chad, my rant for the day...

[onthestrip]

The only legitimate criticism Wheeler should get is the massive TIF package they got of $85 million or whatever. It was unnecessarily large for a subdivision. Its success has shown the TIF was basically a give away.

Other than that, anyone saying this wont or isnt working is delusional.

[Teo9969]

I wonder if they're starting to think of where the next OKC based development will be?

How many acres do you all think is necessary to really create something like this?

[Pete]

^

They own all that property on the east side of Western, so it's going to take them a couple of decades to max out.

[stlokc]

I mentioned this in a different thread a while back, but I think the land north of the "Britton" district could be ripe for something like this. I'm talking about west of Broadway Extension, east of the train tracks, between 97th and 104th. This is a strange area of nothingness that is nevertheless very well-placed geographically within the metro area, only a few blocks north of an emerging urban district and well-designed roads could merge perfectly with an existing neighborhood. Some of that area has a tradition of struggling a bit, this could be a huge shot in the arm.

Keep in mind, I don't live in OKC and I have no money to do this but it's just kind of a dream. I have always been perplexed about that area.

[Teo9969]

^

They own all that property on the east side of Western, so it's going to take them a couple of decades to max out.

Really? I don't feel like it's going to take a couple of decades unless they're purposefully slow (not a bad strategy, mind you). I could easily see them completing the rest of the West Side by end of decade and the East side probably will be mostly housing so, that *could* potentially be done reasonably within 6-8 years of there continues to be a decent chunk of single family homes.

If they start making it substantially denser from here then, yeah, I could see it taking that amount of time (which is why I like the slow strategy)

Still, I'd think with the success of Wheeler that by the time they're at 70% they could be kicking off another project because they likely have enough capital back and surely the confidence of their investora to deliver returns.

[chssooner]

The only legitimate criticism Wheeler should get is the massive TIF package they got of $85 million or whatever. It was unnecessarily large for a subdivision. Its success has shown the TIF was basically a give away.

Other than that, anyone saying this wont or isnt working is delusional.

Or, is it a success because of the TIF? Take away the TIF, it probably isn't AS successful. $85 million is a lot for this project.

Granted, you can't do that with 100% certainty, as I think the project as a whole, assuming the economy recovers, will more than make up for that over time. Like I said, I want it to stay successful, and I will gladly be wrong if it stays on its current trajectory.

[Teo9969]

If I recall, they didn't take the whole TIF award up front, which is more to say than most developers

[April in the Plaza]

I mentioned this in a different thread a while back, but I think the land north of the "Britton" district could be ripe for something like this. I'm talking about west of Broadway Extension, east of the train tracks, between 97th and 104th. This is a strange area of nothingness that is nevertheless very well-placed geographically within the metro area, only a few blocks north of an emerging urban district and well-designed roads could merge perfectly with an existing neighborhood. Some of that area has a tradition of struggling a bit, this could be a huge shot in the arm.

Keep in mind, I don't live in OKC and I have no money to do this but it's just kind of a dream. I have always been perplexed about that area.

Garrett and Co. has put together the biggest position in that area. They definitely build some SFHs through their real estate arm, although I haven't seen them develop anything approaching the level and scale of Wheeler or Carlton Landing.

[David]

What has Wheeler been using the TIF award for, anyway? There's a lot of infrastructure being installed for this project and it seems rational to use the TIF money to pay for it if that is what has been happening.

[Richard at Remax]

According to this it was $120 million

"In 2017, Oklahoma City Council approved a plan to create a $120 million tax increment financing (TIF) district for the Wheeler development (ad valorem tax increase will generate $11 million over the long term), calling for 2,000 housing units in addition to office, retail and other commercial space constructed over the next two decades."

https://housinginnovation.co/design/...oklahoma-city/

and here https://www.okgazette.com/news/wheel...orward-2981181

[Richard at Remax]

Not only is Wheeler a success, but it's a huge success.

They are selling homes as fast as they can be built, have lured nice restaurants, services and retailers, constructed an elementary school... And they are just getting started.


It may not be for you but anyone trying to argue it is not wildly successful reveals themselves to be ignorant.

Current data doesn't reflect this. Currently there are 17 active homes for sale in there, with an average of 89 days on market. Actual DOM range from 5-334 days. Active average PPF is $349.47

Pending data shows there are 5 under contract. Average DOM is 38. Range is 0-159 DOM. PPF is $335.23

Sold data in last 6 months is 16 total homes. Average DOM is 24. Range is 0-139. PPF is $327.10.

Shows me, just like most places, that home sales have cooled a bit in there. It's def the most inventory I've seen for sale at one time.

[Pete]

^

Aren't some of those still under construction?