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Thread: Trader Joe's

  1. #26

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    A friend of mine loves Trader Joe's. One of their managers told her that Trader Joe's wouldn't move to Oklahoma until the liquor laws were changed.

    Personally, I like Market Street in Dallas better than Whole Foods. But, I don't think we'll get any of these fine stores (other than the Whole Foods that Tulsa already has) until the liquor laws are changed. Wine is a huge profit item for them and they won't come here until they can sell it.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    I still think, if you can legally do here what's been done in other states, we could have one of these stores. In New York, IIRC, there are two separate doors for the grocery store and the liquor store with a wall dividing them. It's in essence two separate stores, but all within one complete building.

  3. #28

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Basically with the liquor store licensing laws, they would have to have a separate operator "leasing" the space next to their store, they would have to do that at every store which in effect would largely exclude them to the profits from said store. They would also have to buy from Oklahoma wholesalers and not national wholesalers or directly from wineries and such. I know many like to blame the "religious influence" for the liquor laws and while that might have been partially to blame when prohibition was repealed they haven't been able to stop much in regards to alcohol or gambling in the past 20 years. The resisting force now is the liquor distributors and liquor store lobby that wants to keep things as they are because it serves their interests to keep out large, national alcohol retailers.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    It's very frustrating. I'm not as familiar with the grocery stores in OKC, but in Tulsa, Reasor's is the only one that comes close to Kroger or Tom Thumb.

    I've heard that about the liquor lobby before. The local wine industry hasn't been too happy with them, either.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    Basically with the liquor store licensing laws, they would have to have a separate operator "leasing" the space next to their store, they would have to do that at every store which in effect would largely exclude them to the profits from said store. They would also have to buy from Oklahoma wholesalers and not national wholesalers or directly from wineries and such. I know many like to blame the "religious influence" for the liquor laws and while that might have been partially to blame when prohibition was repealed they haven't been able to stop much in regards to alcohol or gambling in the past 20 years. The resisting force now is the liquor distributors and liquor store lobby that wants to keep things as they are because it serves their interests to keep out large, national alcohol retailers.
    Now that IS annoying. I don't know how one could ever fight a lobby like that.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Not only does it definitely affect attracting some very much desired retailers, it's a serious inconvenience to the consumer.

    The present laws serve no one but liquor store owners. Why should we put their interests ahead of virtually everyone else's?

  7. #32

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    I walked through a Trader Joes in Vegas and wasn’t overwhelmed….. .personally, I’d love to have a Central Market by HEB, but I’m sure there is no way it would be supported here….

    I marvel at the olives at Central Market….....the whole place really is just incredible.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    For the longest time, I was not overly impressed with TJ's.

    It takes a while to figure it out but once you do, you'll become a huge fan. So many interesting items and most are a bargain.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Any news at all about a Trader Joes?

  10. #35

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    An article last week said they were actively looking for sites in OKC.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Keep in mind that TJ's is only now making it's way into Dallas.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
    Keep in mind that TJ's is only now making it's way into Dallas.
    Yep they just opened a store in Ft Worth.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    I've always felt it was just a matter of time and market visibility. They're opening one up in Salt Lake City (which has more restrictive liquor laws than us) and they've got tons of locations in Kansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania which don't sell beer, liquor, or wine.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    They also have stores in Omaha and Kansas City, and are opening their first stores in the Denver/Boulder area later next year. So with Dallas and Austin getting them soon Oklahoma will literally be surrounded. And the alcohol point is moot as evidenced by stores in Salt Lake City, Overland Park and Denver/Boulder (Colorado only allows 1 store in a chain to sell high point beer and wine).

  15. #40

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    The Denver store will be the one with alcohol, the Boulder one will not.

    Denver Business Journal - Trader Joe's confirms it's coming to Denver

  16. #41

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    The Denver store will be the one with alcohol, the Boulder one will not.

    Denver Business Journal - Trader Joe's confirms it's coming to Denver
    Very strange law. The Whole Foods in Boulder has the strong beer and wine and the ones in Denver do not. Super Target in Glendale (SE Denver) does though. If Oklahoma had this law there would be a huge fight over which city, OKC or Tulsa, would get the 1 store with strong beer/wine...

  17. #42

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    Basically with the liquor store licensing laws, they would have to have a separate operator "leasing" the space next to their store, they would have to do that at every store which in effect would largely exclude them to the profits from said store. They would also have to buy from Oklahoma wholesalers and not national wholesalers or directly from wineries and such. I know many like to blame the "religious influence" for the liquor laws and while that might have been partially to blame when prohibition was repealed they haven't been able to stop much in regards to alcohol or gambling in the past 20 years. The resisting force now is the liquor distributors and liquor store lobby that wants to keep things as they are because it serves their interests to keep out large, national alcohol retailers.
    Exactly and TJ's makes a lot off of beer/wine sells. Perhaps (like most of us here) are thinking those laws will be changed in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Not only does it definitely affect attracting some very much desired retailers, it's a serious inconvenience to the consumer.

    The present laws serve no one but liquor store owners. Why should we put their interests ahead of virtually everyone else's?
    OK has so many laws regarding alcohol that need to be changed, done away with, or modified it's actually overwhelming knowing where to start. What's in the state's best interest? What will help the economy the most? What will be the easiest to Pass?

    Honestly, making changes to give parity across the board between distillers, wineries and breweries would help in bringing more of those businesses (breweries/distilleries mainly) to the area. Does it really make sense that a winery can have a tasting room but a brewery can't? Of course not and it's those laws that keep breweries from expanding into our state.

    Refrigeration is another big dumb law that needs to change and it could very well be that one that changes prior to allowing 'high abv' beverages into the grocers. Those laws mainly benefit the distributors and any joe shmo that wants to open a liquor store just to make money but could care less about truly knowing/loving/properly caring for the products they sell. THOSE are the small 'Mom & Pop' stores that will be on the losing end of alcohol laws lessening, the good stores will prosper.

    The million dollar question is when will this happen. I HOPE that chains like WF and TJ coming to OK this will hurry up the process.

  18. #43

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bille View Post
    Exactly and TJ's makes a lot off of beer/wine sells. Perhaps (like most of us here) are thinking those laws will be changed in the future.



    OK has so many laws regarding alcohol that need to be changed, done away with, or modified it's actually overwhelming knowing where to start. What's in the state's best interest? What will help the economy the most? What will be the easiest to Pass?

    Honestly, making changes to give parity across the board between distillers, wineries and breweries would help in bringing more of those businesses (breweries/distilleries mainly) to the area. Does it really make sense that a winery can have a tasting room but a brewery can't? Of course not and it's those laws that keep breweries from expanding into our state.

    Refrigeration is another big dumb law that needs to change and it could very well be that one that changes prior to allowing 'high abv' beverages into the grocers. Those laws mainly benefit the distributors and any joe shmo that wants to open a liquor store just to make money but could care less about truly knowing/loving/properly caring for the products they sell. THOSE are the small 'Mom & Pop' stores that will be on the losing end of alcohol laws lessening, the good stores will prosper.

    The million dollar question is when will this happen. I HOPE that chains like WF and TJ coming to OK this will hurry up the process.
    The refrigeration issue is what I want I see changed the most. It really doesn't bother me that you can't buy wine in grocery stores because OKC has some nice liquor stores that have more selection than most grocery stores do in other states. What I want is to be able to buy high point beer cold.

    One thing the state could look into as far as wine goes is allowing Oklahoma wines to be sold on groceries but other wines confined to liquor stores. That would benefit our state's economy because it would help local wineries but also not reduce the importance of the liquor stores.

  19. #44

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    The refrigeration issue is what I want I see changed the most. It really doesn't bother me that you can't buy wine in grocery stores because OKC has some nice liquor stores that have more selection than most grocery stores do in other states. What I want is to be able to buy high point beer cold.

    One thing the state could look into as far as wine goes is allowing Oklahoma wines to be sold on groceries but other wines confined to liquor stores. That would benefit our state's economy because it would help local wineries but also not reduce the importance of the liquor stores.
    I agree with the refrigeration. It's so important there are a lot of breweries that refuse (and will continue to refuse) to deliver to our state until this passes. Beer specifically isn't meant to sit warm and it prematurely ages the product so much faster then at fridge temps you probably wouldn't believe it. The problem is most people think those that want refrigerated product is so they can go out into the parking lot and do beer bongs...or have a 12pk of cold ones for the 2 mile drive to the house, not that it is preferred that the beer be as fresh and handled as best as possible. It's those that prefer a light tasteless lager or rather the cheapest beer they can find are the ones that need to be watched for. Allowing refrigeration at the liquor stores is a must and wouldn't have any affect on people going out and drinking/driving. If people are going to drink and drive, having cold beer versus having to put the beer on ice for 5-10 minutes before they drink it isn't changing anything. That argument is dumb and they need to let it go.

    Not sure how they could legally allow local wineries to sell here and not imported ones. Moreover, how would they define it? There are some wineries in the state that have the wine made out of state. Then they ship it in and slap their label on it and sell it as their own. Seems like a hard thing to regulate when they could just allow all wineries into the grocers and the local folks could capitalize (if they wanted) on being able to sell their product for less. Honestly though, being a beer guy I'm partial to beer and the wineries already get 'special treatment' that breweries don't. With beer, I'm fine with visiting my local bottle shop for my shopping list and the same goes for wine, I just wish I wasn't limited to selection because somebody thinks I'm so irresponsible I can't wait until I'm out from behind the wheel of my vehicle before I start drinking it.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    I doubt that the liquor stores would be in favor of refrigerated products due to the cost of updating their stores to be competitive with retailers that already have that expense.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Some liquor store owners would like to add refrigeration but I think the vast majority do not. Reach in coolers are not that expensive and there are always used ones available but that doesn't keep a bunch of people from blocking progress. I also think the "cold, low point beer" lobby has much to do with liquor stores adding refrigeration.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    Some liquor store owners would like to add refrigeration but I think the vast majority do not. Reach in coolers are not that expensive and there are always used ones available but that doesn't keep a bunch of people from blocking progress. I also think the "cold, low point beer" lobby has much to do with liquor stores adding refrigeration.
    It's an added expense sure but it wouldn't be one they HAD to take on it'd just be in their best interest. Some places are so small I'm not sure they would even have the room to add much anyway. That said, there are few certain stores (the best ones obviously) that would be installing refrigeration the very second they could. The hardest part for them would be how much to do. There's a store we visit down in Texas that has a pretty good selection and no lie, 90% (or more perhaps) of their beer is refrigerated as soon as it arrives. The owner told me he spends $5k a month on his electric and most of that is because of all the coolers. Obviously that's on the extreme end for a smaller mom/pop but it's his choice to do so and it should be everybody's choice. Again, teaching those opposed that the end goal is to have a better product is going to be the hard part here.

    Who are you referring to when you say 'cold, low point beer lobby'?

    'Low point beer' that's another prohibition term that's outdated and doesn't really make any sense(actually it didn't back in '33 either but it served to get alcohol flowing in the US again and most everybody wanted that so it didn't take much) . By definition, low point is anything 3.2%ABW (4.0% ABV) or less. So, a beer can be 4.1% ABV and considered 'high point'. Dumb. Actually, now that I think about it, it may be easier just to do away with that term and then just put a cap (up high) on ABV to keep spirits out of the grocers...sure seems like it would be less trouble.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bille View Post
    Who are you referring to when you say 'cold, low point beer lobby'?
    The distributors of what you can buy in grocery and convenience stores. Some of them don't distribute anything "stronger" than those products and having a monopoly on a certain market segment makes them happy.

    We still have 3.2 beer in grocery stores here in Colorado (except for the one store liquor license as discussed previously) and it changing it comes up every legislative session but the same type of lobbyists block any meaningful reform to liquor laws just like in Oklahoma. One difference here is the number of large micro breweries, many are bumping up against the threshold of how much they can make a year and still have a microbrew tavern/restaurant. Getting over a certain threshold would require them to distribute everything through the three tier system and that triggers some different tax implications as well.

  24. #49

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedogok View Post
    The distributors of what you can buy in grocery and convenience stores. Some of them don't distribute anything "stronger" than those products and having a monopoly on a certain market segment makes them happy.

    We still have 3.2 beer in grocery stores here in Colorado (except for the one store liquor license as discussed previously) and it changing it comes up every legislative session but the same type of lobbyists block any meaningful reform to liquor laws just like in Oklahoma. One difference here is the number of large micro breweries, many are bumping up against the threshold of how much they can make a year and still have a microbrew tavern/restaurant. Getting over a certain threshold would require them to distribute everything through the three tier system and that triggers some different tax implications as well.
    Hmm, I was under the assumption that the distributors handled all percentages and their only limiting factor was the brands they carried. Perhaps they have the market cornered (for now) but that sure seems to be putting all their eggs in one basket.

    The lack of brewpubs IMO in OK is due to the inability to produce beer in excess of 3.2ABW, if they plan on self-distributing anyway. If they go through a distributor they could produce higher abv beers but there are hoops to jump through that cost more time, money, hassle, etc.

    I have to wonder how much influence (if any) TX distributors may have on legislation being stalled here in OK. North Texas, not to mention other surrounding states, could stand to loose a lot of revenue if laws were changed here in OK. Not only are there groups of craft beer fans traveling out of state for beer unavailable here there are just as many (if not more) BMC fans doing the same so they can get their hands on some 'Texas Six Point!'. Those guys in TX certainly love that misunderstanding and how gullible people are that they wouldn't spend 5 minutes online to verify what they are getting isn't twice as strong. Of course most of those same people think higher abv=better beer too.

    Oh man, it saddens me when I think of how much our state still has to learn, especially if we ever expect to get any of these archaic laws changed or abolished.

  25. #50

    Default Re: Trader Joe's

    More screwed up liquor laws and bureaucrats run amok....

    Denver Post - Beer stops flowing at Crooked Stave barrel room over licensing issue

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