Streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

I think that it is now time to retire the thread "Mass Transit Announcement" and start a thread on the progress of the newly approved transit initiative.

As you can imagine, there will be a great deal of public dialogue and input solicited.

[Urban Pioneer]

Streetcar projects eligible for new USDOT grants

Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) announced $280 million is available in federal grants for urban circulator projects, such as streetcar and bus systems.

The money represents the first batch of funding provided by the Obama Administration through the Livability Initiative, a joint venture comprising USDOT, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will provide a maximum of $25 million per streetcar or other urban circulator project using discretionary funds from the New Starts/Small Starts program. The administration will place priority on projects that “connect destinations and foster the redevelopment of communities into walkable, mixed-use, high-density environments,” according to a prepared statement.

The FTA expects to announce grant recipients in early 2010.

[LakeEffect]

Streetcar projects eligible for new USDOT grants

Yesterday, the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) announced $280 million is available in federal grants for urban circulator projects, such as streetcar and bus systems.

The money represents the first batch of funding provided by the Obama Administration through the Livability Initiative, a joint venture comprising USDOT, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) will provide a maximum of $25 million per streetcar or other urban circulator project using discretionary funds from the New Starts/Small Starts program. The administration will place priority on projects that “connect destinations and foster the redevelopment of communities into walkable, mixed-use, high-density environments,” according to a prepared statement.

The FTA expects to announce grant recipients in early 2010.

Isn't that press release a week or two old?

[Urban Pioneer]

Isn't that press release a week or two old?

It is. But it is particularly relevant now as we will have the matching funds to begin to pursue additional federal funds to build an even bigger system and reach further areas. It is the first wave of funding announced specifically including streetcars in any recent history.

[okclee]

Since MAPS 3 includes 5 to 6 miles of streetcar.

What is everyones opinion to the ideal route for these 5 to 6 miles?

[Urban Pioneer]

Tentatively, the goal is to connect major neighborhoods, districts, and employment centers in the central city area together. Also, to design the system to be easily expanded into other areas.

[Platemaker]

This route is right at 6 miles, follows very closely to the Fixed Guideway Study, but includes Broadway and less 'jogs'. I think it would be a very easy to learn system.

Downtown... you'd be within 1.5 blocks of the streetcar no matter where you were.

[PLANSIT]

This route is right at 6 miles, follows very closely to the Fixed Guideway Study, but includes Broadway and less 'jogs'. I think it would be a very easy to learn system.

Downtown... you'd be within 1.5 blocks of the streetcar no matter where you were.

You can't cross the BNSF at 13th. You'd have to build an overpass, which would blow the budget. 4th, 5th, or 23rd are your best bets.

[Platemaker]

You can't cross the BNSF at 13th. You'd have to build an overpass, which would blow the budget. 4th, 5th, or 23rd are your best bets.

That's 10th street.

[PLANSIT]

That's 10th street.

Same thing applies.

[proud2Bsooner]

This map seems to be fairly correlative to Platemaker's but it looks like it goes further south to the southern tip of the park.

[Platemaker]

Same thing applies.

The map was just for fun... 10th street is the alignment proposed in the Fixed Guideway Study.

[Laramie]

This route is right at 6 miles, follows very closely to the Fixed Guideway Study, but includes Broadway and less 'jogs'. I think it would be a very easy to learn system.

Downtown... you'd be within 1.5 blocks of the streetcar no matter where you were.

This will be a great start and it does enhance the City's image; however, it does little for mass transit. Oklahoma City is spread out and not as densely populated as most cities.

As they expand beyond 6 miles, I'm sure places of interests (Zoo area, Western Heritage Museum, Stockyards) will be our priority!

[mugofbeer]

Is it proposed to be a street car (a la the vintage system on McKinney Ave in Dallas) or a street level light rail system?

[Platemaker]

Is it proposed to be a street car (a la the vintage system on McKinney Ave in Dallas) or a street level light rail system?

a MODERN streetcar

[Urban Pioneer]

Is it proposed to be a street car (a la the vintage system on McKinney Ave in Dallas) or a street level light rail system?

It is the modern more European system currently only employed in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland.

Watch the video on the left of the page at-

Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City

about the Seattle Streetcar System. It gives a quick and excellent explanation about the type of system that is proposed.

[Pete]

That's a solid proposal, Platemaker.

I know we only will have so much money but it sure would be nice to extend it north from Saint Anthony's to 23rd or even 36th, as it would greatly help 23rd Street, The Paseo and all those great historical neighborhoods.

I could see a loop added on in the vein, then circling back towards the Capitol.

[mugofbeer]

OK, its like a single car light rail in Denver, SLC or Dallas.

[PLANSIT]

OK, its like a single car light rail in Denver, SLC or Dallas.

Yes, single vehicle, but with low-level boarding and articulation capabilities. Operates at-grade for nearly all of its line.

[Platemaker]

Not exactly... I'm suprised you haven't visited... Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City

[mugofbeer]

Not exactly... I'm suprised you haven't visited... Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City

Just saw the video. There are portions of each of the systems I listed in the respective Downtown areas that are at street level and operate the way the video portrays. Those systems all have 2-3 cars. These just look like one-car versions of the same thing.

[PLANSIT]

Just saw the video. There are portions of each of the systems I listed in the respective Downtown areas that are at street level and operate the way the video portrays. Those systems all have 2-3 cars. These just look like one-car versions of the same thing.

Right, but Modern Streetcars are utilized in very urban, at-grade environments. LRT can do both, however, the more vehicles you have, length and turn ability becomes a problem. If a train is 4 cars long, it just doesn't work as well in short block scenarios. Hence, Modern Streetcar, 1 car, articulated, level boarding, and runs at slower speeds.

[okclee]

Urban Pioneer, what is your opinion for the 5 to 6 mile route?

[Urban Pioneer]

Urban Pioneer, what is your opinion for the 5 to 6 mile route?

Well, to be honest, I would like to keep my opinion to myself and allow public dialogue and engineering analysis to determine the route.

I will say that I advocate for the best use of the money that is before us. What may look like a great route/street to traverse down may be quite expensive because of underground utility relocation needs and such. That is why the engineering analysis will be so important.

I do advocate for linear lines as they are more easily expandable versus loops and the mayor supports that concept.

Project 180 may offer some great opportunities for "shared" costs or at least reasonable preparations for streetcar lines.

Example: Design light poles and electrical services in 180 so that they can easily accommodate power infrastructure.

[bdhumphreys]

I do advocate for linear lines as they are more easily expandable versus loops and the mayor supports that concept.

I am also a proponent of a linear line concept.

In choosing the location of the lines, I think it is important to determine what we are trying to accomplish with the streetcar system. Certainly, connecting some popular, relatively high-traffic nodes is important, but the streetcar is likely to provide the most long-term value to the city if we use it as an impetus for new development at densities that can sustain transit into the future.

Thus, while Sheridan between Bricktown and the new Devon Tower is an obvious segment, it would be advantageous to extend the line further west along Sheridan and/or Main to catalyze that area (which it seems is a requisite of the OCU Law School proposal). Also, N. Broadway has the right-of-way and a wonderful mix of built fabric, but remains mostly underdeveloped. Streetcar along this stretch would have a major impact, and could be extended south along Robinson, in the future, to tie into the Central Park area and eventually the Oklahoma River.

--

On a different note, just to throw some outside-the-box thought, what if we connected Bricktown to Penn Square Mall via Sheridan and Classen (which is 6.1 miles). Then you would give downtown residents access to everything, including multiple grocery stores. Dense historic neighborhoods along Classen, which were built for streetcar, would be able to commute to work. And Penn Square could serve as a park&ride facility that is convenient to thousands.

See route: from:sheridan and mickey mantle to:35.466542,-97.526751 toenn square mall - Google Maps

This is not necessarily my favorite route, but it does have some advantages.