Streetcar

[Bellaboo]

One thing the streetcar will do is spur a whole lot of infill development, in fact it already is going on.

[RodH]

Every thing that the city spends money on is not for everyone. That does not necessarily make it a waste of money. Most of the people I talked to about the river improvements in the original maps thought they were a waste of money. Many also thought another arena was a needless item. In retrospect, there was a lack of vision. Those items have proved their worth and I am confident that the streetcar will too.

[jackirons]

Do I want to walk that far? Do I have time to walk that far? Is it mid July and 95 and scorching? Is it mid January and my hands are numb? Is it an April rainy day?

Or is it 70 and sunny, but I don't have time to walk one end to the other? Am I from out of town and didn't bother renting a car because OKC has the streetcar to get me around downtown? Do I not want to deal with walking under the railroad viaduct, crossing EKG and navigating my way to Midtown?

It's not a waste of $130 million.

Sure it is. It's an inefficient use of funds. Improving the bus system is a much better/cheaper way to move people around town if that's really your concern.

[OKCisOK4me]

Sure it is. It's an inefficient use of funds. Improving the bus system is a much better/cheaper way to move people around town if that's really your concern.

Yeah, a bus system that no one rides because it's too confusing. Great thing about this system is it goes around and around. You don't have to learn 5 different connection points to figure out how to get somewhere. Oh and a streetcar comes around...what, every 10 or so minutes?

I'll take this $130 million investment anyday over bus, BRT or tunneled pluplans...

[jackirons]

Yeah, a bus system that no one rides because it's too confusing. Great thing about this system is it goes around and around. You don't have to learn 5 different connection points to figure out how to get somewhere. Oh and a streetcar comes around...what, every 10 or so minutes?

I'll take this $130 million investment anyday over bus, BRT or tunneled pluplans...

That can easily be done with buses at a fraction of the cost. I know they aren't as sexy as a streetcar, but everything you just said can be done just as well or better with a bus. The average streetcar costs $4M and laying streetcar track costs an average of $30M per mile. I don't know the OKC numbers but I assume they're similar. Buses range from $400k to $700k and they obviously share the road with everyone else.

But we really don't need either for that area. JUST WALK OR BIKE.

There are so many better ways to spend $130M.

[David]

Every thing that the city spends money on is not for everyone. That does not necessarily make it a waste of money. Most of the people I talked to about the river improvements in the original maps thought they were a waste of money. Many also thought another arena was a needless item. In retrospect, there was a lack of vision. Those items have proved their worth and I am confident that the streetcar will too.

+1

[Bellaboo]

That can easily be done with buses at a fraction of the cost. I know they aren't as sexy as a streetcar, but everything you just said can be done just as well or better with a bus. The average streetcar costs $4M and laying streetcar track costs an average of $30M per mile. I don't know the OKC numbers but I assume they're similar. Buses range from $400k to $700k and they obviously share the road with everyone else.

But we really don't need either for that area. JUST WALK OR BIKE.

There are so many better ways to spend $130M.

We are getting between 6 and 7 miles of track. A portion may be counted twice, but at 30M per mile then we must be getting a good deal. Our total cost is somewhere near 130 M.
I'll take the sexy any day of the week.

With our extreme weather, it's not always feasible to walk or bike.

[KayneMo]

According to the streetcar's Wikipedia page, rail installation is $50 million, and track length is ~5.6 miles when I mapped it out, which comes down to $8.9 million/mile.

[hoya]

One thing I know for sure. Success or not, I'm going to vote for the extension, just to piss certain people off.

[soonerguru]

We have a know-it-all in our midst.

[Uptowner]

One thing I know for sure. Success or not, I'm going to vote for the extension, just to piss certain people off.

Speaking of pissing people off with expansions. Wouldn’t the most efficient route to the northern core be up walker from midtown where the line already exists? It would serve the community of paseo, Jefferson Park, etc. while giving merchants in uptown a boon. Not many riders along 13th e-w and classes n-s. It would also help stem some of the speeding on 23rd if it expanded west to OCU.

[warreng88]

Sure it is. It's an inefficient use of funds. Improving the bus system is a much better/cheaper way to move people around town if that's really your concern.

It is, but again, it is confusing and it is not a good system. If, for some reason, they were able to upgrade the bus system, a lot of people still wouldn't ride it because it is a bus and that doesn't have the appeal of a streetcar. Once the streetcar is up and running, upgrade the bus system and make mass transit a good option, as now, it is not. That was always the plan that the funds would be used for Santa Fe and the streetcar, knowing BRT and bus system upgrades would come afterwards.

[aDark]

Speaking of pissing people off with expansions. Wouldn’t the most efficient route to the northern core be up walker from midtown where the line already exists? It would serve the community of paseo, Jefferson Park, etc. while giving merchants in uptown a boon. Not many riders along 13th e-w and classes n-s. It would also help stem some of the speeding on 23rd if it expanded west to OCU.

I would love to see the Streetcar run up Walker. I'm sure the Heritage Hills folks would throw absurd amounts of money at a campaign to prevent this from happening. Which is a shame. It would so cool to take the streetcar from midtown straight up to Paseo and there would be a lot of ridership back and forth, I'm sure.

[Laramie]

Today's Oklahoman (12/14/2017) titled 'Growing Pains: Streetcar construction brings long-term excitement, short-term difficulty' is a good description of the temporary inconveniences of implementing the OKC Streetcar construction.

“It’s horrible when you reduce hours because people depend on their jobs, and it’s Christmastime,” Schaffer said. “I’m doing my best to keep the place open and that’s the way it is. It’s not sustainable.”

The streetcar project was announced in February 2017, with an estimated completion in late 2018. The track will run through the central business district connecting Bricktown and Midtown when completed, at a cost estimated to be more than $130 million. Linking business districts across the greater downtown area is the end goal, with hopes to drive traffic to Automobile Alley, Midtown and Bricktown by providing easily accessible public transportation.

Let's hope the businesses along the streetcar route can ride out these growing pains--this project will pay big dividends.

[DoctorTaco]

That article mentions that Kaisers has had to "change the hours they are open."

How would any of us be able to know the difference? Their hours are always random.

[Pete]

That article mentions that Kaisers has had to "change the hours they are open."

How would any of us be able to know the difference? Their hours are always random.

Kaiser's exists only to torture your soul.

[Pete]

City agency recommends streetcar fares

In its meeting today, the Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority (COTPA) will vote on a resolution to approve a proposed rate structure for the city's streetcar system.

The recommended fares are the result of a study conducted by a paid consultant, Four Nines Technologies, which was hired in 2016.

Four Nines were hired to review fares for the entire EMBARK transit system which also includes city buses, paratransit and the Oklahoma River ferry.

The consultants collaborated with city staff and conducted surveys and listening sessions around the community and also organized focus groups. They also evaluated comparisons to peer bus and streetcar systems in similar cities.

If the COTPA board approves the provisional fare structure, additional public input will be sought before any new fares are ultimately adopted.

The recommendations for the streetcar are for $1 for a 1-hour pass, $3 for a full day and $32 for a month. Youth 7-17, seniors over 60, disabled and those on Medicare would be eligible for half-price fares.

Universal passes that would cover both buses and the streetcar would be $4 a day, $14 for a week and $50 a month, with the same half-price fares available to those who qualify.

Under the proposed plan, bus fares would remain unchanged at $1.75 for a single trip and $3 for an express trip.

Streetcar passes will be available on-line and at ticket vending machines on streetcar platforms. Proof of fare payment must be carried on the streetcar and violators will be subject to a fare citation.

The streetcar is currently under construction in Bricktown, Midtown, Automobile Alley and the central business district. The system is expected to be complete and operational by the end of 2018.

[riflesforwatie]

Really glad to see some of the recommendations from the fare focus groups made it through, especially keeping the bus fares steady and bolting on streetcar access at no additional cost. For the streetcar-only fares, $3/day seems fairly reasonable, and I like $1/hour as an easy, round number.

[Anonymous.]

Really wanted free fares for at least the implementation...

The pricing seems decent, although I would like to see an annual pass. I am curious what constitutes a day pass. 24 hour period? Reset @ midnight? Does the streetcar even plan to run past midnight on Fri/Sat?

[catch22]

Really wanted free fares for at least the implementation...

The pricing seems decent, although I would like to see an annual pass. I am curious what constitutes a day pass. 24 hour period? Reset @ midnight? Does the streetcar even plan to run past midnight on Fri/Sat?

I would like to see denver's transit day which starts at 3am. Buying a day pass at any time during the calendar day is valid until 2:59am the following day, which is essentially midnight on the "transit day".

[riflesforwatie]

Really wanted free fares for at least the implementation...

The pricing seems decent, although I would like to see an annual pass. I am curious what constitutes a day pass. 24 hour period? Reset @ midnight? Does the streetcar even plan to run past midnight on Fri/Sat?

An annual pass would be great. Currently there is no option for this on the bus system, either.

The way the buses work is you get 24 hours from the time the pass is activated (i.e., the first time it's swiped at a farebox). I assume the streetcar passes will be the same.

Not sure on the hours on Fri/Sat nights.

[TheTravellers]

Saw this on Lackmeyer's chat today and totally agree with him.

Guest said:
What do you think of the $1 fare recommendation for the Streetcar?

Steve Lackmeyer replied:
The study questions were skewed and I have no faith in the survey and how it was done.

[Anonymous.]

Is COTPA pretty much for sure going to pass that fare schedule?

I completed the online survey, but did not get into a focus group. I am curious why Steve has no faith in the survey?


Doing some quick math, taking an Uber/Lyft from Bricktown to Midtown is about $6.30 (minimum fare). So depending on how many people you have with you, it might not be very enticing to try the streetcar. I really think we are missing a huge opportunity here by not having free fares. I am legitimately concerned for the success of the streetcar with this provisional fare schedule.

[catch22]

Is COTPA pretty much for sure going to pass that fare schedule?

I completed the online survey, but did not get into a focus group. I am curious why Steve has no faith in the survey?


Doing some quick math, taking an Uber/Lyft from Bricktown to Midtown is about $6.30 (minimum fare). So depending on how many people you have with you, it might not be very enticing to try the streetcar. I really think we are missing a huge opportunity here by not having free fares. I am legitimately concerned for the success of the streetcar with this provisional fare schedule.

I have heard of possibilities of companies or or groups sponsoring the streetcar with free fares during certain months or events.

[riflesforwatie]

We were told in the focus group I attended that there would be fares, that that part was already decided. The questions would be the following: how much will it cost, how will it be structured, and how will people pay?

I'm generally down with the idea of a free streetcar, at least for a period, but the problem is the same as Sunday service: how is that fair for bus riders? This is especially salient when it comes to fares. Let's face it, a downtown streetcar is going to be (primarily/largely) used by well-heeled Downtowers and visitors. So we're going to give them free public transit but charge the (primarily/largely) lower-income groups that use the bus system full-freight? (Note that, for reduced fares, you can't qualify just on the basis of low income).