Plaza District

[Questor]

Agree that the biggest and most walkable bar district in OKC is Bricktown. How can anyone not agree with that. I'm not wild about the crowds the area draws though. There are one or two bars I think are cool.

Campus Corner in Norman is probably the second most dense cluster of bars in a walkable area in the metro. It's a fun non-threatening crowd. The only drawback is that it is Norman... a weird alternate universe where everything is OU and Greek centric for nine months, and then completely non-existent for the remaining three.

Midtown is probably OKC's best shot at a walkable bar district that attracts the professional crowd. It has a couple of options right now and sounds like that will be growing soon.

Western Avenue is okay, but is it just me or does that area always look run down?? I'm not sure why that is. Also, there are only a handful of true bars there... although I don't really mind that because restaurants like Sushi Neko do have such great ambiance.

Paseo can actually be kind of great on nights in the summer when there's a big turnout during one of their art walks and there's lots of wine sampling going on. Otherwise it's just kind of sad down there.

Hipster Triangle... I just don't get it. It's not walkable, and OKC's concept of hipsters is just weird. Every time I go there all I see are cross-dressers, chain-smoking guys, and girls who desperately wish they were in a bigger city (probably because they are so severely outnumbered by the other two groups). Also, is OKC possibly the only major city left that allows smoking in bars?? I never see that anywhere else anymore.

Plaza District... doesn't really feel like a 'district' to me right now. But I agree it could be something in five or ten years. Realistically ten at OKC's standard pace.

Classen Curve... it just has the one bar. I think. So it's more like driving to that one pub in that one strip mall. Same goes for Memorial.

Deep Deuce, Automobile Alley... maybe one day.

Tulsa's not that much better off as far as quantity and density. But where they make up for it is in better quality of the patrons and bars / bar owners. Visiting a bar there you're more apt to run into people with interests a lot more in line with some of America's largest cities. Business owners there do seem better at keeping their finger on the pulse and knowing which bands of the moment to try and attract to their venues, or what services to offer in a bar in today's world. I never see enough of that here in OKC. A few are trying.

[dankrutka]

I don't want to discount Bricktown. It's great for visitors, Thunder games, etc. BUT this doesn't change the fact OKC needs a walkable district full of LOCAL, hip bars. Saint's in Plaza is what I'm talking about, not Bricktown's places like Coyote Ugly. This isn't a Tulsa/OKC pissing match, but in this one area OKC has a lot to learn from Tulsa. I was just in Tulsa visiting family and friends and the Brady District has improved dramatically from the last time I was there. There are literally 10-15 high quality local bars (and new restaurants, a hotel, residential, a great urban park) within a couple blocks of each other. OKC has nothing comparable. If OKC could catch up in this area it would be great for the City.

[bchris02]

I don't want to discount Bricktown. It's great for visitors, Thunder games, etc. BUT this doesn't change the fact OKC needs a walkable district full of LOCAL, hip bars. Saint's in Plaza is what I'm talking about, not Bricktown's places like Coyote Ugly. This isn't a Tulsa/OKC pissing match, but in this one area OKC has a lot to learn from Tulsa. I was just in Tulsa visiting family and friends and the Brady District has improved dramatically from the last time I was there. There are literally 10-15 high quality local bars (and new restaurants, a hotel, residential, a great urban park) within a couple blocks of each other. OKC has nothing comparable. If OKC could catch up in this area it would be great for the City.

Agreed. This is something OKC needs that pretty much all other cities of comparable size have. I've always wondered how Tulsa, being smaller, seems to outdo OKC in so many areas, this being one of them. Only since the arrival of the Thunder has the momentum really shifted in OKC's favor. Young professionals look for these things when trying to decide where to move or whether to stay around after college or move away so its good for the city as a whole to have them. Don't get me wrong, I am pro-OKC all the way, but I am simply stating the facts.

This has been discussed on City-Data forum and most people seem to blame the conservative/religious nature of OKC but I don't buy that at all.

[ljbab728]

This has been discussed on City-Data forum and most people seem to blame the conservative/religious nature of OKC but I don't buy that at all.

OKC is hardly more religious or conservative than Tulsa so that has nothing to do with it at all.

[okcustu]

OKC is hardly more religious or conservative than Tulsa so that has nothing to do with it at all.

I think it'll take a group of entrepreneurs singularly focused on one area that can lobby police, code enforcement, traffic changes if needed and the ability to promote it well. Even among fellow recent OCU alums, the Plaza is a mystery. There can be two of those groups, The Blue Dome and The Brady have matured quite well next to each other. I would say Midtown and the Plaza are in the best place momentum wise to grow "local" bar districts.

[CurtisJ]

I think it'll take a group of entrepreneurs singularly focused on one area that can lobby police, code enforcement, traffic changes if needed and the ability to promote it well. Even among fellow recent OCU alums, the Plaza is a mystery. There can be two of those groups, The Blue Dome and The Brady have matured quite well next to each other. I would say Midtown and the Plaza are in the best place momentum wise to grow "local" bar districts.

There can be many more than two. Tulsa has Brady, Blue Dome, Cherry St, Brookside and is a much smaller city than OKC, that being said, the city is much more dense than OKC. There are no empty pockets anywhere from 1st to 71st and riverside to HW 169.

Also, greenwood will probably emerge next for Tulsa, as well as further river development.

[dankrutka]

The Pearl District at 6th and Peoria is already starting to emerge. There's a nice little art bar and The Phoenix, which is a fantastic coffee/bar/deli place.

[BBatesokc]

Noticed the Chasin' Tail pet store near NW 16 and Blackwelder is out-of-business. Went there a couple of times during Plaza events (with our dogs). The staff was very friendly and the shop done nicely. However, both times we visited we noticed live tiny critters in the 'gourmet' dog treats they were selling - so we never patronized them.

[CuatrodeMayo]

Noticed the Chasin' Tail pet store near NW 16 and Blackwelder is out-of-business. Went there a couple of times during Plaza events (with our dogs). The staff was very friendly and the shop done nicely. However, both times we visited we noticed live tiny critters in the 'gourmet' dog treats they were selling - so we never patronized them.

It has been replaced by The Salvage Room -- Oklahoma City

The soft opening is tomorrow night.

[Praedura]

This is kind of short notice, but...




Yep, tonight at the Istvan Gallery



Brought to you by the United Filmmakers of Oklahoma (UFO)

UFO is an expanding group of directors, writers, actors, artists, producers, crew people and more who come together for the sole purpose of creating independent films.
Future plans include two independent features to be shot in Oklahoma and a variety of diverse film projects later this year.
All skill levels are welcome to join UFO.

More info here:
OKC 356: #3 United Filmmakers Showcase - OKC.NET

[king183]

I'm thinking of buying a home in the Plaza District and wanted the crowd-sourced opinion of the people here. It's a relatively nice house on 15th, but it's surrounded by some not so nice houses, as I'm sure you can imagine for that area. I've been hearing how this area is up and coming, which looks to be true right on 16th street, but I'm seeing little evidence of it on the housing front south of 16th. I've also been told by several friends who live in Gatewood or Miller to absolutely avoid the area because of the crime (one of my friends who lived on 15th had her house broken into twice in two months a couple years ago, so she moved).

Do you guys have any opinions as to the future of this area? I'm really hoping the development and rejuvenation right on 16th starts spreading south because I think that area could be really great.

[Teo9969]

It seems North of 16th has better prospects for the next 5 to 10 years for sure, but if you're going to hold onto the house long term, south of 16th probably has more growth potential.

I would think 15th will see growth sooner rather than later since it's so close to the Plaza, but it is going to take a little bit of time.

[ljbab728]

This is kind of short notice, but...




Yep, tonight at the Istvan Gallery



Brought to you by the United Filmmakers of Oklahoma (UFO)




More info here:
OKC 356: #3 United Filmmakers Showcase - OKC.NET

That looks like it would have been fun. Please give us more advance notice the next time something like this is planned.

[soonerguru]

I'm thinking of buying a home in the Plaza District and wanted the crowd-sourced opinion of the people here. It's a relatively nice house on 15th, but it's surrounded by some not so nice houses, as I'm sure you can imagine for that area. I've been hearing how this area is up and coming, which looks to be true right on 16th street, but I'm seeing little evidence of it on the housing front south of 16th. I've also been told by several friends who live in Gatewood or Miller to absolutely avoid the area because of the crime (one of my friends who lived on 15th had her house broken into twice in two months a couple years ago, so she moved).

Do you guys have any opinions as to the future of this area? I'm really hoping the development and rejuvenation right on 16th starts spreading south because I think that area could be really great.

Burglaries are fairly common throughout OKC. It's necessary to get a dog and an alarm system and solid doors and locks no matter what neighborhood you choose to live in.

You have to decide for yourself what your level of comfort is. if you're willing to move into a true urban frontier, you will reap the most benefits on your investment long term -- provided the area eventually gentrifies. I'm not familiar with the precise block of 15th you're looking at, but the closer to the Plaza the better, in my opinion.

Years ago, I remember parts of Jefferson Park were very sketchy. There were gang members wearing colors driving through the area, pulling drive bys, discharging their weapons, and just flat out trying to intimidate you (it usually worked). There were homicides and open-air crack deals right over by where Cheever's is now. Now look how much it has changed. People bought houses there for a song and now they're worth substantially more money.

Classen Ten Penn is a neighborhood that will take years (or even a decade or two) to gentrify, but there will be areas of more immediate gentrification, and those areas will abut the Plaza District. Don't be frightened off by your friend's experience -- that could have happened in multiple nabes in OKC that most of us would consider "safe."

[Teo9969]

Also, remember that you can make changes to deter burglaries by increasing the security (i.e. making it more difficult to enter), adding more lighting to deter people from even entering your yard at night, and having an alarm that will sound if they come in. Those things will are all preventative. But at the end of the day, if someone really wants your stuff, they are probably going to get it.

[BBatesokc]

I'm thinking of buying a home in the Plaza District and wanted the crowd-sourced opinion of the people here. It's a relatively nice house on 15th, but it's surrounded by some not so nice houses, as I'm sure you can imagine for that area. I've been hearing how this area is up and coming, which looks to be true right on 16th street, but I'm seeing little evidence of it on the housing front south of 16th. I've also been told by several friends who live in Gatewood or Miller to absolutely avoid the area because of the crime (one of my friends who lived on 15th had her house broken into twice in two months a couple years ago, so she moved).

Do you guys have any opinions as to the future of this area? I'm really hoping the development and rejuvenation right on 16th starts spreading south because I think that area could be really great.

Years ago I lived in that area and even had rent houses with a partner in the surrounding neighborhood.

The reality is the area has been severely crime-ridden for a very long time - burglaries, prostitution, drug crimes, gangs, etc.

Will it revive at some point - probably. But I honestly don't see the area south of 16th getting noticeably better for a very long time (10+ years at least). We looked there again before buying and decided it just wasn't worth it.

The Plaza area is nice to walk, shop, and patronize, but I doubt you'd find yourself walking the dog, jogging, riding a bike, etc. on any of the surrounding streets (especially to the south, or making friends with too many of your neighbors).

When I did live in the area some renters I had were broken into, but I never was. I had two attempts, but both times they fled as soon as the alarm went off. My only renters that suffered from theft were those who did not have alarms that they used or left things outside or cars not in the garage.

What I hated though was both times the would-be burglars with my home kicked in the back door prior to the alarm going off. While they stole nothing, I had to totally replace the back door and door jams both times.

That's when I moved to a bit more deterrence that I use to this day.

I know you didn't ask specifically about burglary deterrence, but here are the things we do and have used over the years.

Some will say this entire effort is overkill, but we find it unobtrusive and its prevented a single break-in from happening (or even attempts) and we continued to live in a crime ridden area until this year.
1.) Motion sensors around our property (we have 8 of these covering the entire property). You get an audible tone whenever someone comes onto your property. Not only does it alert you to someone's presence, but often when someone walks up to your door they too hear the buzz and know you've been alerted. When we go out of town we leave the receiver with our neighbor and just turn a couple of sensors on. Amazon.com: Chamberlain CWA2000 Wireless Motion Alert: Camera & Photo

2.) Motion activated flood lights with built-in camera and audio alert. We have these over our driveway and back porch. Ours is a different brand and also utilizes 'the cloud' to backup video footage and streams live to my smartphone and has battery backup. I really like these! Someone walks up to driveway at night and it announces, "You're trespassing!" Plus lights them up and takes video of them and alerts me via a text message. Also great to keep your cars or yard decoration safe(er). Ours has a remote to turn them off and on (less annoying when coming and going at night). Amazon.com: SmartGuard 120W 4-in-1 security system: motion activated light+camera+SD card memory+audio warning: Electronics

3.) Wireless motion activated lights. We have several of these attached to trees, side of the house, pool house, fence, etc. Battery operated and run off LED's (very bright). They activate when they sense motion. Helps to startle trespassers, alert you and neighbors and provides the needed light to our security video cameras pointed towards those directions. Also just good for lighting up your path while walking around your property at night. Amazon.com: Mr. Beams MB363 Wireless LED Spotlight with Motion Sensor and Photocell, Black, 3-Pack: Home Improvement

4.) A good security camera system. We started with this brand below and then moved to a different higher resolution brand that didn't require proprietary cameras and cable and had cloud ability, battery backup and a DVD burner. The key features to look for are resolution (600 lines+), night capability, an ease to use DVR and smartphone notification. A dedicated monitor is nice, but ours can be viewed by any TV in the house on a specific channel. Also critical to either hide the DVR well or put it in a DVR lock box mounted to the wall or foundation. *$999.00 after $100 Instant Savings* Revo 16 Channel Surveillance System with 8 High-Resolution 600TVL Cameras & 2 TB Hard drive. - Sam's Club

5.) Keypad locks. Love these, specially when the kid was living at home (as he was terrible at losing his keys). No key to lose or have stolen. Plus, we can assign a temporary code for a one-time use on the door coming into the garage or pool house if someone needs to leave something for us and we don't want it on the porch. Amazon.com: Schlage FE575 PLY 626 ELA Plymouth Keypad Entry with Auto-Lock and Elan Levers, Brushed Chrome: Home Improvement

6.) Locking mailbox. We had some neighbors suffer from mail theft (Netflix DVD's, birthday cards, etc) so we got a locking mail box. Also great when you go out of town because nobody can see your mail piling up and realize you're gone. Amazon.com: Solar Group MSK00000 Extra Large Lockable Security Wall Mount Mailbox, Black: Home Improvement

7.) A good alarm system is key - but you've gotta use it for it to be useful. We turn ours on even if we are just going to 7-11. We also got two wireless panic remotes. These are great to keep on you, but don't leave one in your car for obvious reasons. A system that sends you a text or phone call is good too.

8.) We also have an inside dog that will bark if anyone comes onto the property and has learned when the motion sensors go off that that means someone is around and he goes on alert.

If nothing else its good piece of mind and when added over time it really doesn't cost that much and it all pretty much blends into the background and isn't noticed. Honestly, I don't fear a burglary that much (that's what insurance is for), I just don't want the inside of the house vandalized or my wife to be in danger of physical attack from an intruder.

I really wish a group of 4-8 home buyers (or a developer) could go in and buy a stretch of homes and rehab them (starting on 15th street). If you could get pockets of rehabbed homes then I think more buyers would consider this a real option.

[tillyato]

Figured I'd give my $0.02 on the topic as well. I live on the north side of 16th Street (near St. Francis), bought our house about 6 months ago. Maybe we've been lucky, but neither us nor any of our nearby neighbors have experienced any crime problems since we moved in. I'm sure the situation is different on the other side of 16th Street, and that the further away from the Plaza District you get the less gentrification you will find. However, in Gatewood you routinely see people out jogging, walking their dogs, etc. throughout the neighborhood.

There are still pockets of the Gatewood area that have yet to gentrify, and even more so in the Classen Ten Penn area. I really think a lot of these areas are a block by block determination, so it's hard to classify the entire neighborhood one way or the other. At the end of the day I believe the Classen Ten Penn area will be reviving (I believe in a recent chat Steve said this might be one of the next major developments you see happen near the Plaza District), but don't expect it to be fully revived in the next couple of years.

My wife and I love the Plaza District and hope to see more development on the south side of 16th in the near future. There are new shops, restaurants, and bars opening up every couple of months, and it's exciting to be within walking distance to so much great stuff. Buying a house on 15th near the Plaza could end up being a great investment, but depending on the rest of the neighborhood, it could take years (5-10 years) to really come to full fruition. Whether that is the right decision for you has in large part to do with your tolerance for living in a neighborhood going through transition versus a neighborhood that has already transitioned. From what I've heard, the area is substantially better than it was even 5 years ago, so who know what it will look like in another 5 years.

[Mr. Cotter]

I'm in the middle of buying a house in the core, but landed a few blocks north of here. I just don't see the neighborhood south of the Plaza turning around any time soon (but I'd love to be wrong). I've looked at a house in just about every neighborhood inside the 235 - 44 - River loop, and there are areas that are poised for a much quicker rebound than south of 16th, west of Classen.

Not too far from there, and for not too much more cash, Crestwood is a viable option. That was my second choice neighborhood. PM me if you want some free advice based on my recent experience.

[Teo9969]

When you're looking, take note of the number of multi-family homes, as the more of them there are on the street, the less likely you will see significant effort made at gentrification.

I have often wondered if the Plaza is going to wrap around any of the streets to the point that it is also located on 15th or 17th, or if it's going stay solely on 16th. At some point, it's going to have to start rezoning residential for commercial. That's probably 7 to 10 years down the line.

[tillyato]

I have often wondered if the Plaza is going to wrap around any of the streets to the point that it is also located on 15th or 17th, or if it's going stay solely on 16th. At some point, it's going to have to start rezoning residential for commercial. That's probably 7 to 10 years down the line.

I've wondered this also, but have always thought (at least for more retail/restaurants) it more likely to expand further in an east/west line, past Blackwelder to the east and Indiana on the west, at least in the near future. There are a number of apartment complexes just north of 16th between Indiana and Gatewood on 17th that seem like they would be prime candidates for some sort or redevelopment in the next 5-10 years as well, either retail or redeveloped residential.

[BBatesokc]

Figured I'd give my $0.02 on the topic as well. I live on the north side of 16th Street (near St. Francis), bought our house about 6 months ago. Maybe we've been lucky, but neither us nor any of our nearby neighbors have experienced any crime problems since we moved in. I'm sure the situation is different on the other side of 16th Street, and that the further away from the Plaza District you get the less gentrification you will find. However, in Gatewood you routinely see people out jogging, walking their dogs, etc. throughout the neighborhood.

There are still pockets of the Gatewood area that have yet to gentrify, and even more so in the Classen Ten Penn area. I really think a lot of these areas are a block by block determination, so it's hard to classify the entire neighborhood one way or the other. At the end of the day I believe the Classen Ten Penn area will be reviving (I believe in a recent chat Steve said this might be one of the next major developments you see happen near the Plaza District), but don't expect it to be fully revived in the next couple of years.

My wife and I love the Plaza District and hope to see more development on the south side of 16th in the near future. There are new shops, restaurants, and bars opening up every couple of months, and it's exciting to be within walking distance to so much great stuff. Buying a house on 15th near the Plaza could end up being a great investment, but depending on the rest of the neighborhood, it could take years (5-10 years) to really come to full fruition. Whether that is the right decision for you has in large part to do with your tolerance for living in a neighborhood going through transition versus a neighborhood that has already transitioned. From what I've heard, the area is substantially better than it was even 5 years ago, so who know what it will look like in another 5 years.

16th and Francis and 15th and Blackwelder are like night and day - and yet only blocks apart. We actually spent the better part of 3 years looking for a home more in your area -Classen to Broadway, and 13th to 23rd with no luck (either too expensive upfront, or too expensive going forward).

We have lots of friends in your general area, and while they say they've been victims of crime (mostly just casual theft), they feel very secure.

I'd certainly consider investing in the 15th and Blackwelder area, I just wouldn't live there with a family.

That being said, the revitalization of the Plaza is the best thing to happen in that area in a long time.

[EBAH]

I'm in the middle of buying a house in the core, but landed a few blocks north of here. I just don't see the neighborhood south of the Plaza turning around any time soon (but I'd love to be wrong). I've looked at a house in just about every neighborhood inside the 235 - 44 - River loop, and there are areas that are poised for a much quicker rebound than south of 16th, west of Classen.

Not too far from there, and for not too much more cash, Crestwood is a viable option. That was my second choice neighborhood. PM me if you want some free advice based on my recent experience.

While I do think that the area S of 16th has long term potential, I'm not sure if it's going to be in the time frame you're looking for. But, we'd LOVE to have you in Crestwood, I've lived there for quite a while, great neighborhood! and still very close to the Plaza.

[Buffalo Bill]

16th and Francis and 15th and Blackwelder are like night and day - and yet only blocks apart. We actually spent the better part of 3 years looking for a home more in your area -Classen to Broadway, and 13th to 23rd with no luck (either too expensive upfront, or too expensive going forward).

We have lots of friends in your general area, and while they say they've been victims of crime (mostly just casual theft), they feel very secure.

I'd certainly consider investing in the 15th and Blackwelder area, I just wouldn't live there with a family.

That being said, the revitalization of the Plaza is the best thing to happen in that area in a long time.

No big, but I think he was referring to St. Francis church, around Kentucky Avenue, not Francis Avenue.

[ljbab728]

Years ago I lived in that area and even had rent houses with a partner in the surrounding neighborhood.

The reality is the area has been severely crime-ridden for a very long time - burglaries, prostitution, drug crimes, gangs, etc.

Will it revive at some point - probably. But I honestly don't see the area south of 16th getting noticeably better for a very long time (10+ years at least). We looked there again before buying and decided it just wasn't worth it.

The Plaza area is nice to walk, shop, and patronize, but I doubt you'd find yourself walking the dog, jogging, riding a bike, etc. on any of the surrounding streets (especially to the south, or making friends with too many of your neighbors).

When I did live in the area some renters I had were broken into, but I never was. I had two attempts, but both times they fled as soon as the alarm went off. My only renters that suffered from theft were those who did not have alarms that they used or left things outside or cars not in the garage.

What I hated though was both times the would-be burglars with my home kicked in the back door prior to the alarm going off. While they stole nothing, I had to totally replace the back door and door jams both times.

That's when I moved to a bit more deterrence that I use to this day.

I know you didn't ask specifically about burglary deterrence, but here are the things we do and have used over the years.

Some will say this entire effort is overkill, but we find it unobtrusive and its prevented a single break-in from happening (or even attempts) and we continued to live in a crime ridden area until this year.
1.) Motion sensors around our property (we have 8 of these covering the entire property). You get an audible tone whenever someone comes onto your property. Not only does it alert you to someone's presence, but often when someone walks up to your door they too hear the buzz and know you've been alerted. When we go out of town we leave the receiver with our neighbor and just turn a couple of sensors on. Amazon.com: Chamberlain CWA2000 Wireless Motion Alert: Camera & Photo

2.) Motion activated flood lights with built-in camera and audio alert. We have these over our driveway and back porch. Ours is a different brand and also utilizes 'the cloud' to backup video footage and streams live to my smartphone and has battery backup. I really like these! Someone walks up to driveway at night and it announces, "You're trespassing!" Plus lights them up and takes video of them and alerts me via a text message. Also great to keep your cars or yard decoration safe(er). Ours has a remote to turn them off and on (less annoying when coming and going at night). Amazon.com: SmartGuard 120W 4-in-1 security system: motion activated light+camera+SD card memory+audio warning: Electronics

3.) Wireless motion activated lights. We have several of these attached to trees, side of the house, pool house, fence, etc. Battery operated and run off LED's (very bright). They activate when they sense motion. Helps to startle trespassers, alert you and neighbors and provides the needed light to our security video cameras pointed towards those directions. Also just good for lighting up your path while walking around your property at night. Amazon.com: Mr. Beams MB363 Wireless LED Spotlight with Motion Sensor and Photocell, Black, 3-Pack: Home Improvement

4.) A good security camera system. We started with this brand below and then moved to a different higher resolution brand that didn't require proprietary cameras and cable and had cloud ability, battery backup and a DVD burner. The key features to look for are resolution (600 lines+), night capability, an ease to use DVR and smartphone notification. A dedicated monitor is nice, but ours can be viewed by any TV in the house on a specific channel. Also critical to either hide the DVR well or put it in a DVR lock box mounted to the wall or foundation. *$999.00 after $100 Instant Savings* Revo 16 Channel Surveillance System with 8 High-Resolution 600TVL Cameras & 2 TB Hard drive. - Sam's Club

5.) Keypad locks. Love these, specially when the kid was living at home (as he was terrible at losing his keys). No key to lose or have stolen. Plus, we can assign a temporary code for a one-time use on the door coming into the garage or pool house if someone needs to leave something for us and we don't want it on the porch. Amazon.com: Schlage FE575 PLY 626 ELA Plymouth Keypad Entry with Auto-Lock and Elan Levers, Brushed Chrome: Home Improvement

6.) Locking mailbox. We had some neighbors suffer from mail theft (Netflix DVD's, birthday cards, etc) so we got a locking mail box. Also great when you go out of town because nobody can see your mail piling up and realize you're gone. Amazon.com: Solar Group MSK00000 Extra Large Lockable Security Wall Mount Mailbox, Black: Home Improvement

7.) A good alarm system is key - but you've gotta use it for it to be useful. We turn ours on even if we are just going to 7-11. We also got two wireless panic remotes. These are great to keep on you, but don't leave one in your car for obvious reasons. A system that sends you a text or phone call is good too.

8.) We also have an inside dog that will bark if anyone comes onto the property and has learned when the motion sensors go off that that means someone is around and he goes on alert.

If nothing else its good piece of mind and when added over time it really doesn't cost that much and it all pretty much blends into the background and isn't noticed. Honestly, I don't fear a burglary that much (that's what insurance is for), I just don't want the inside of the house vandalized or my wife to be in danger of physical attack from an intruder.

I really wish a group of 4-8 home buyers (or a developer) could go in and buy a stretch of homes and rehab them (starting on 15th street). If you could get pockets of rehabbed homes then I think more buyers would consider this a real option.

I don't want to derail this thead into a discussion of home security but I was wondering if your motion detectors are able to tell the difference between a person walking up to your house or a dog or cat. I would hate to be woke up in the middle of the night because some animal decided to visit.

[BBatesokc]

No big, but I think he was referring to St. Francis church, around Kentucky Avenue, not Francis Avenue.

Re-read on a real computer screen (instead of my phone) and you are correct. My mind probably led me down that wrong path because I lived on Francis many moons ago (scariest house I ever lived in).

The church is around 20th is it not (straight North and a bit West of Blackwelder)? Certainly much closer to the Plaza and nicer than 15th, but I do see where it would still be street by street and house by house. Mostly two stories in that area isn't it?