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Thread: Cotter Ranch Tower

  1. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrunk View Post
    I really wish someone would invest some money into this dumpy old building. It really holds our skyline back. The outside is dreadful and needs to be updated.
    That's what people said about the India temple building, Braniff building, and all the storefronts on 23rd back in the 60s.

    I think it looks good on the skyline the way it is as long as it'd lit at night. It will look better if we get a few more tall new buildings added to the skyline.


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  2. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    I've just seen 2 boxy buildings from the 70s be reinvented in Dallas and Houston as landmark, eye catching buildings. Not sure where the India temple fit into this... I didn't ask for it's demolition.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    I'm with PhiAlpa on the night look with the same lighting caveat. Yes, I wish it had the design of, say, Valliance Bank Tower, but it is what it is.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    I have little issue with the exterior of the building. I'm more concerned with keeping the interior of the building up to date to make it viable.

  5. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Well, when I go to a nice restaurant, I expect the food to be pleasing to the eye as well as being tasty. All I'm saying.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrunk View Post
    Well, when I go to a nice restaurant, I expect the food to be pleasing to the eye as well as being tasty. All I'm saying.
    True, but that connection to the building isn't as clear. It is a product of it's time and isn't terrible. There are far worse buildings in OKC that could use a complete makeover. You can't just totally reinvent a building every time tastes in design change. The exterior is hardly displeasing even if it is dated.

  7. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    The ground floor is the biggest design crime this building perpetrates on downtown OKC.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    It's a fine example of International style architecture, which I happen to like. No need to update the exterior.

  9. Default Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by edcrunk View Post
    I've just seen 2 boxy buildings from the 70s be reinvented in Dallas and Houston as landmark, eye catching buildings. Not sure where the India temple fit into this... I didn't ask for it's demolition.
    Kerr McGhee thought its original facade looked dated in the 60s so they basically destroyed it and covered it with an ugly concrete facade. That basically led to it getting demo'd a few years ago. I'm sure at the time they thought the new concrete facade was eye catching too.

    I understand what your saying though as I've see a few cool renovations as well. The Tower Condominiums in Fort Worth are a great example (though that building looked way worse than chase before the renovation). I just don't think chase looks bad


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  10. #110

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by CuatrodeMayo View Post
    The ground floor is the biggest design crime this building perpetrates on downtown OKC.
    You mean you don't care for western themed leather seating groups, head shots of conservative politicians, longhorns, and a three foot tall full body portrait of the (the real) Mr. Cotter's wife?

    Regarding the exterior, it should be maintained - not updated. It's the only real example of the International style in our skyline.

    The building is perfectly serviceable. I'm sitting in a very nice office right now, with a great view looking west toward Devon, First National, City Hall and Film Row. The view of Automobile Alley from the north side of the building is stunning at night. The building needs to be maintained better, but not gutted and redone. Money would be well spent on updating the heating/cooling and a lobby redesign. Management has spent the last several months upgrading the common areas on all the floors (carpet replaced with tile, wallpaper covered and painted, upgrading smoke detectors, updating restrooms - some for the first time ever).

  11. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Id really like to keep it as well. In 50 years, it may be the gem of International like FNC is of it's time. Who knows.

    What i would like to see, is all of the windows replaced though with something more efficient. It would change the look of the building a bit, but without actually changing the curtain's style. Nothing as drastic as it's cousin in Indianapolis (was it bank of america or something?).

  12. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    I agree that the overall exterior design should be maintained, but there could be much better-designed sidewalk interaction without harming the architectural integrity of the building. The massive setbacks and plazas are the biggest liability of the structure, which I SUSPECT is what Cuatro was alluding to.

    I've always envisioned an attached (or freestanding) and (mostly) outdoor covered dining area - a la Cafe du Monde's outdoor area - on the NW plaza across form the Skirvin. If it were a place that served breakfast in the morning and/or cocktails in the evening I think it would absolutely kill thanks to proximity to hotels.

    I rode past the Skirvin just last night and contemplated the Red Piano Bar, and how it usually seems mostly empty, which is a shame because it's a great spot. It was smoking hot when the Skirvin first reopened, but I think now it's mostly just hotel guests rather than locals on most nights, because it is not attached to any "scene" or neighborhood of venues. If Cotter had my aforementioned outdoor spot, and perhaps the space catty-corner to the Skirvin (across from B.C. Clark) were activated by a great restaurant/bar/lounge, I think the Skirvin would actually see its bar numbers go UP, because the corner would attract more locals.

    Sorry to digress, but for YEARS I have felt that intersection has tons of unexplored potential.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    That's a great idea. Maybe we will get some sort of patio dining with a new tenant in the Santa Fe ground floor space. But since Rand's newly designed entrance to The Underground was rejected because it interfered with the architecture of the building, I don't see the current ownership doing anything on the plaza. Right now, I'd settle for the concrete being resurfaced to repair all the broken and chipped up sections.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    ^

    Same issues at Bank of Oklahoma Plaza which weren't well addressed in a recent makeover.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Am I the only one that has trouble figuring out how to get around on the sidewalk level on the north side of the building?

  16. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    ^

    Same issues at Bank of Oklahoma Plaza which weren't well addressed in a recent makeover.
    I've always thought those two steel boxes they put on Kerr side were great bones for a couple of buildings that could house restaurants/coffee/newsstand/whatever, which would satisfactorily activate that side, at least.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Am I the only one that has trouble figuring out how to get around on the sidewalk level on the north side of the building?
    From the collection, Clichés R Us'ns : "You simply place one foot in front of the other and keep doing it over and over." =)
    That, or abandon the sidewalk entirely and walk down the street or on the railroad/trolley tracks. (i keed . . . i keed)

    (sorry . . . I'm still reeling from my most recent walk around Downton OKC Abbey including a visit to that little slice of paradise known as the Myriad Gardens--at least at the most recent renaming--and taking a couple of shots of The End of an Error involving getting rid of that Artistic Joke/Eyesore known, formerly, as Mummer Stage Center Theater. The sidewalks and crosswalk signals were excellent, btw.)

    Frankly, I'm experiencing a bit of difficulty getting around naming a building "Cotter Ranch Tower" . . .
    (but that's OK . . . it's not a common perceptual challenge--i live in the suburban outskirts)

  18. #118

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    Am I the only one that has trouble figuring out how to get around on the sidewalk level on the north side of the building?
    What, the millions of flagpoles that are conveniently located in the worst spot ever?

  19. #119

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Actually, apparently I must apologize to this tower as it has been accused of a crime it didn't commit. Upon further review, it is the Continental building I have so much trouble with.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Guys, if someone were to put some money into this, this could be a very cool building. Even with exterior work, this could become the second most prominent building in our skyline that people will notice. Right now, it is the second tallest yet most choose not to look at it much because of its ugliness.

    I'd love to see someone change the exterior black windows, do some cool lighting so it's visible and very noticeable at night. Heck, what would really be cool is if someone bought this place for a good price and did mixture of commerical with some residential mixed in. I don't know if its possible but how cool would it be to add some time of height on the rooftop with cool lighting and give it 50-75 more feet in height. It would balance out the skyline and push it to close to 600 feet and would be good for whoever owns the place. If anyone has any cool ideas or can come up with a rendering or pic of what it could look like, could you post something. This place has potential to be really cool and it wouldn't take as much as building a new skyscraper yet could add soooo much to our skyline.

  21. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Remember, the place is a commercial venture too. Things like lighting do NOT bring in more money, rather they simply COST money in utilities. It won't attract more tenants or higher rent just because its a little less dated from the outside. So if we are to hope for any renovations to the building, it has to be something that makes monetary sense to the owner...ie Cotter. Adding structure on the setback for retail, hey that could do it. Changing windows to be more efficient...well that only works if the building were paying the utilities instead of the tenants, or if they were seeking some sort of certification, or had some grant to help with it or something.

    Also be conscious of those things taking away from it being an International Style structure. If it's altered too much, it looses its identity. And at the end of the day, it's gonna look like what it is, some stuff slapped on to try and make it look better. It's like when you were a teenager and your parents tried to use "cool" words. Something about it just doesn't sit right.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    Remember, the place is a commercial venture too. Things like lighting do NOT bring in more money, rather they simply COST money in utilities. It won't attract more tenants or higher rent just because its a little less dated from the outside. So if we are to hope for any renovations to the building, it has to be something that makes monetary sense to the owner...ie Cotter. Adding structure on the setback for retail, hey that could do it. Changing windows to be more efficient...well that only works if the building were paying the utilities instead of the tenants, or if they were seeking some sort of certification, or had some grant to help with it or something.

    Also be conscious of those things taking away from it being an International Style structure. If it's altered too much, it looses its identity. And at the end of the day, it's gonna look like what it is, some stuff slapped on to try and make it look better. It's like when you were a teenager and your parents tried to use "cool" words. Something about it just doesn't sit right.
    Except tenants are leaving because, among things, the building is not updated and it is often uncomfortable. Most of the space Devon left is still vacant, and prospective tenants aren't going to pay market rate for a submarket building. Investments should be made now to attract tenants, fill the building, and then receive a return.

  23. Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    If that's true, then I'm all for some renovation. It wasn't long ago that the space was full and things were all ok there....my what a few years and a big ass building down the street can do LOL.

    Here's the problem I have with things like this. Infrastructure is the #1 key to keeping a tenant. The build-out is decided by the tenant so if you don't like the way a suite looks, fine...rip it out....comes out of your pocket anyway (at least partially). But if the guts of the building suck, then get off your landlord butt and do something about it. Make sure your HVAC works well and doesn't leak all over or is so loud you can't hear yourself. Keep those light fixtures working and don't take 2 weeks to replace things like ballasts. If you can't provide the electrical needed, then fork it over and get it added. And if your common areas still look like they did when the building was built, (and you aren't a historic structure), then you need to get cracking on doing something about it. Even historic structures need help keeping things working. Far too often landlords drag their feet in the name of saving a buck, only to piss the tenants off, bring the building into disrepair, and ultimately cause the venture to fail. I would hope that someone like Cotter would realize that if these things are really happening, it would be in his best interest to put some money into the place. If he thinks he's just going to sell it off, he's going to have a loss if the building is in the state you describe. Lower occupancy is a real killer to purchase price. Hey, the ROI may be long, but I personally wish we had more people committed to that long term ROI so they would hang around. I despise short term landlords just looking to turn properties over for a buck. They do nothing but a disservice to their tenants and the area.

  24. #124

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    You are so "spot on". This location could be an incredible anchor for retail / dining for its lower levels.

    The Cotter Tower could be that location but it would have to have a "new identity" to offer for the new / large anchor tenants. A band-aide will not get it this time. A complete re-do is what is needed now. I like the idea of adding a new "top" for it w/ a fresh look coupled w/ a new windows and a several large upscale retail for the lower levels. The Colcord has it new look sitting beside the new Devon Tower. The Cotter Tower could be the new look w/ the Skirvin too.

    It does need to Re-Invent itself to be put in the front again of the OKC relevance in real estate. The good news for the Cotter Ranch Tower is that Devon spend a Billion down the street and thus, helped secure the Cotter Ranch Tower's future PROVIDING, they act accordingly. ....or, they will continue to be old news.

    There is nothing Historic about this building, it is just a tower that needs to stay current, or get left behind.

    A new top, new skin, new lighting, new street experience and this tower can be the Hottest Real Estate Property in OKC. ...or not.

  25. #125

    Default Re: Cotter Ranch Tower

    One thing that would go a very long way towards modernizing and providing more space would be to expand the base as close to the street as possible, especially on the south, west and north sides where there is nothing but expansive plaza nothingness.

    Could make the whole thing a 2-story glass structure:





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