Hill, The

[MGE1977]

Downtown is risky. But, there's some reward to the risk. It's fun. It's easy to walk everywhere. It feels more like you're living in a big city than anywhere else in town, and some people don't really want a yard.

You're very right. If I were young and hip again, I wouldn't want a yard. Really I'd just take Hip. I suppose that a guy in my position, with a family, and good not huge cashflow, values the other side of city living (the one that's like grandparents - good for a visit, but hurry give the kids back Biggest Loser is on...).

I'll just say again that I think it is too big a chunk. We'll see when this tier II thing blows wide open, and money types start circling the want ads.

[OKCRT]

If someone would build a high rise tower (40-50 stories) downtown I would sign up instantly,as long as it was priced right. I would love living on the 40th floor over looking the city.

I would not want to live in a 5-10-15 story building downtown.

Build it and they will come!

[Steve]

You're very right. If I were young and hip again, I wouldn't want a yard. Really I'd just take Hip. I suppose that a guy in my position, with a family, and good not huge cashflow, values the other side of city living (the one that's like grandparents - good for a visit, but hurry give the kids back Biggest Loser is on...).

I'll just say again that I think it is too big a chunk. We'll see when this tier II thing blows wide open, and money types start circling the want ads.

"Tier II thing blows wide open" ... care to elaborate?

[circuitboard]

If someone would build a high rise tower (40-50 stories) downtown I would sign up instantly,as long as it was priced right. I would love living on the 40th floor over looking the city.

I would not want to live in a 5-10-15 story building downtown.

Build it and they will come!

I agree, build a highrise with great views, great amenties and a REAL parking garage and I would be all over it!

[soonerguru]

Many of us on this message board were terribly disheartened when the pedantic, crass, suburban The Hill was given the green light over the innovative, mixed-use design of McDermid's concept, which also contained multiple price points.

We were pretty sure The Hill would fail, but I doubt any of us could have predicted what an abortion it would turn into.

The Urban Renewal group needs to be scrambled. They cannot effectively make decisions for OKC. Their track record is abysmal, and pretty much has been for several decades. Can they be dismantled and re-formed in another context?

[jbrown84]

"Tier II thing blows wide open" ... care to elaborate?

MGE was anti-MAPS 3, so I imagine he's not buying that OKC can become a true Tier II city.

[Spartan]

I am not aware of such places. Not without a yard, and community and such.

I know that there are small demographics of this city to whom money is no object and the communities of which I am aware stay full of them. I just don't think that buying a new property in the vicinity of downtown is worth that dough, especially since you are buying absolutely no history with the property.

I really don't know if we are this Big Time, that's what I am getting at.

I agree that it is fascinating how this concept of downtown living can work in OKC .. but we already kind of moved past the "will this work?" stage and it is in fact working very well with a large number of developments. The Hill has been a colossal failure, but OCURA had a number of excellent alternatives to chose. One was a mixed-use community called "Ellison Park" proposed by architect Anthony McDermid -- Ellison would have had restaurants and boutiques with a mix of for-rent apartments. Instead they went with the most boring proposal offered just because it would have been for-sale condos.

There are a number of projects that have been successful that would affirm to you that we are "this Big Time." The Centennial (on the Bricktown Canal), which has similarly expensive units, was a home run. Block 42 and Central Avenue Villas sold pretty well. Those are both for-sale, but CAV was less expensive smaller units, and Block 42 is a very interesting project unlike The Hill. The Brownstones at Maywood Park are beginning to sell off the remaining units, and those are much much nicer than The Hill (just ask Betts lol). Apartments have gone over well all around downtown -- Park Harvey, The Montgomery, Deep Deuce, etc.

[betts]

I do think MAPS 3 passing will ultimately make all of these developments successful. The streetcar is going to completely change how people view downtown, I truly believe. Even the Hill will ultimately be finished and people will move in, whether it's then rentals or for purchase housing (perhaps at lower price points). There will be people who ultimately think living downtown is a good idea who may want the more house-like condos you get with the Hill, as it offers a very different feel than all of the others. I agree it's not what should have been built there, but now that it has, I'd like to see it be successful in some fashion.

[wsucougz]

Even the Hill will ultimately be finished and people will move in

I agree that something will eventually be built on that hill, but it won't be the hill.

[Spartan]

Really, Canfield has just made the site even less desirable because he's put suburban rowhomes along ALL of the possible street frontage that faces any adjacent neighborhoods.. so any different development is going to have to go on without ANY street frontage pretty much (and I say that acknowledging a tiny bit towards the south side of the site). I don't know about that. I think we just have to finish The Hill as planned.

[Steve]

It sounds like this could be an intriguing project for the right person.

[soonerguru]

It sounds like this could be an intriguing project for the right person.

Will there be anything about this in the Oklahoman soon?

[Steve]

Don't read anything into my comment. Just saying this could be a good project for someone who appreciates a big challenge.

[wsucougz]

I think we just have to finish The Hill as planned.

Who in their right mind would do this? It's done. The Hill will never be built "as planned."

[Steve]

I suspect Canfield will not finish "The Hill." But I doubt "it's done." The answer, I suspect, is in the gray area people aren't as eager to explore.

[kevinpate]

I suspect Canfield will not finish "The Hill." But I doubt "it's done." The answer, I suspect, is in the gray area people aren't as eager to explore.

I'll profess being dense. conversion to mixed income level rental units?
long day after a longer night. I'm just not really following.

[Steve]

I'm not an urban planner. But it seems as if the remainder of the Hill, including some of the partly finished units, could be recast somehow. Deep Deuce itself is the product of daring, innovative thinking. Who says a similar outcome can't be possible for the Hill?

[shane453]

I'm not an urban planner. But it seems as if the remainder of the Hill, including some of the partly finished units, could be recast somehow. Deep Deuce itself is the product of daring, innovative thinking. Who says a similar outcome can't be possible for the Hill?

Right- I've never actually been inside the units, but maybe they're even large enough to turn into some kind of live/work concept, providing more mixed use along the street frontage. The cottage homes on 23rd have been turned into great retail spaces, as have the homes on NW 9th in Automobile Alley. The same could be done with the Hill. Maybe each of the individual units could be split in two- upper and lower units- to offer smaller and more affordable units.

If there is someone out there who is innovative, and if the developer/OCURA is willing to allow the project to change hands, they can definitely make the Hill work in a new way.

[Steve]

Basically, what I'm suggesting is this might be a good challenge for someone with a brain for attacking such puzzles - like Shane or Blair (both of whom dwarf me in mental capacity!)

[mmonroe]

give it to me, i'm broke and have bad credit... let me get a loan.

[flintysooner]

I doubt anyone is presently ready to face reality.

[Spartan]

Who in their right mind would do this? It's done. The Hill will never be built "as planned."

I think that the overwhelming sense of doom in trying to salvage something else out of the site (due to a lack of frontage) is more compelling than the overwhelming doom of trying to finish the project as planned..that's just my personal opinion though.

[soonerguru]

I doubt anyone is presently ready to face reality.

This could take years.

My greatest concern with OCURA handing this off to someone with a less than optimal design and concept is that it would fail and spread the stench of failure around to other downtown properties.

Quagmire accomplished?

[Architect2010]

Those homes that are finished along the front could be made into some pretty neat shops ala the two remodeled homes on 9th and Broadway next to the Iguana.

[Richard at Remax]

When I was looking at places DT back in July I toured the Hill. They were very traditional inside and felt very suburban. Plus the fact that they in fact were ridiculously overpriced. The sales guy was real nice but when I asked him about when phases 2 and 3 were going to get started he said they were about to get financing and should start on them in Oct. Obviously that didn't happen.