Mom loses custody for alienating dad

[possumfritter]

http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/576619

[Midtowner]

There's nothing terribly novel about this. Parental alienation syndrome is quite real, and judges have used this sort of behavior to transfer custody many times over the years. If you have kids and are separated from the other parent, it is in the best interests of your children to work together to raise them, to communicate about what's in their best interests and to not badmouth the other parent. Also, it appears mom ignored several court orders and that dad wasn't a psychopath. That'll lose you custody just about every time.

[MustangGT]

Fortunately my ex and I responded properly. My son is a junior in college studying architecture with a very high GPA.

[PennyQuilts]

I have seen very few actual custody transfers on the actual basis of parental alienation. It is so hard on the children that have been alienated that the courts resist it, moreover, most of the time the kids have been with the alienating parent for a sustained period of time and fight like the devil against going to the parent they've been turned against. I worry about the children in this case but hope to god the message gets out so parents realize that they could lose their kids if they keep alienating. If I had my way, someone would take them out and beat them. Alienating parents are the most arrogant, self centered individuals on the planet. They murder a relationship that their child has a right and need for. Alienating parents are just about on the level with pedophiles, in my book. As a guardian ad litem, few things a parent can do are more abusive. And I include sexual abuse, to some extent.

[possumfritter]

PA and PAS are indeed quite real. It would be considered "novel" if a Judge in Oklahoma County District Court were to rule as the Judge in Toronto did. I have not yet heard of such a case in Oklahoma County District Court. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and I, by no means, know every case that has come up in Family Court.

I really enjoyed both your inputs!

[possumfritter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj3x6yN_kEs

[Midtowner]

PA and PAS are indeed quite real. It would be considered "novel" if a Judge in Oklahoma County District Court were to rule as the Judge in Toronto did. I have not yet heard of such a case in Oklahoma County District Court. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, and I, by no means, know every case that has come up in Family Court.

I really enjoyed both your inputs!

I don't think that it'd be novel based on those facts.

I've seen it happen in Canadian County though, based on very similar facts.

[Midtowner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj3x6yN_kEs

That video seems familiar. Obviously, he's going about it wrong. If he has a visitation order, he can get the courts to enforce it. If he doesn't have visitation, he can get it--at least, assuming he's not a child molester or something along those lines. Parents have a constitutional right to have access to their children. For a court to deny visitation takes either one parent simply laying down and letting it happen or there to be some pretty strong proof. Clearly this guy has the money to send out flyers all over town. He needs to be spending that money on a lawyer, not a fruitless PR battle.

DHS doesn't enforce custody orders.

[possumfritter]

Midtowner...Sometimes these matter need to go before the Court of Public Opinion. In this case (FD-2000-5322) the Father (NCP) filed a "Motion to Enforce Visitation." The CP had a lawyer paid for by the CP's mother. He in turn filed all sorts of legal paerwork, knowing that the Father could not afford an attorney. That Motion was filed back in 2003...there has never been a decision to this day...over 7 years later.

As for DHS...it is true that they will not enforce a custody order/visitation order. But as soon as the NCP misses a Child Support payment, DHS is all over that NCP to pay up. Visitation Orders ought to carry just as much weight as a Support Order...Agree?????

[Midtowner]

DHS' Child Support Enforcement Division doesn't do anything but set and enforce child support. They have no jurisdiction over visitation.

But do visitation orders carry the same weight as support orders? Technically, yes. Realistically, no. DHS will enforce a support order at no cost to the custodial parent. There is no state agency to enforce a visitation order, however.

I will agree with you. Access to our court system sucks and folks like me are a big part of the problem. Trouble is--I went to OCU Law, paid $1,000/credit hour for 90 hours and have to pay that back. I have to make a living somehow. I stay pretty busy, I do good work. Probably my biggest problem is getting clients to pay me the money they owe me. If folks would pay what they owed, I could probably do fine charging a lot less. The issues arising in family court are just too complex and many for an administrative type court to be able to handle. Administrative courts are just not equipped the same way. Family law cases span everything from business law to everything else. They can get awful complicated.

That said, I'm not sure that "not enough money" is really a valid excuse to not hire a lawyer. I have several clients who have taken up second jobs just to pay my fees. For those living paycheck to paycheck, that's really the only option there is. Heck... I know if I had to hire a lawyer, I'd be borrowing the money or working a different job. I don't have $5,000 sitting in a bank account either.

I'm assuming that's your case as the pleadings track a lot of the stuff you've posted regarding your situation. Honestly, it's not a tough nut to crack. And I've dealt successfully with much worse situations. Here's a bit of free advice: don't sit on your duff. Get a second job. Hire someone to represent you. You will get absolutely nowhere representing yourself. I've seen lots of people attempt to represent themselves, I've never seen them end up doing well.

Also, the judge who is now assigned to your case is absolutely top notch.

[possumfritter]

I agree...Judge Welch is one of thee best I have seen. I have been to Court with several folks and he was always fair...to all parties concerned.

Midtowner, I'll be very honest with you...I would love to be working, period, if I could...but I am just not able to and have not been able to for a long while now. I won't accept disability and I won't accept welfare. I am not complaining in the least bit. Life is what is it is...and we all do the best we can. And, if I could, I would work three jobs just to be able to hire a mediocre lawyer...but I would hope my choice would be more to my needs.

In the meantime, I simply do what I can to try and change things for the better, for all NCP's...but especially for the children. I did, just today, receive my "Activity Permit" from the City to hold a "Standing for Our Children" demonstration at the Oklahoma County Court House on November 1st. Maybe I'll see you there.

[Midtowner]

You should accept disability and welfare.

Look--if you qualify, you deserve it. You paid taxes all the time when you were able to work to pay for this. PM me. I even know some very good social security lawyers. It shouldn't be a pride thing. This is what you paid taxes for. Take the money, and if you have to, stand on the street and beg for attorneys fees... or try legal aid. I really hope you can find justice.

[RadioOKC]

Had it not been for good attorney I would not have known about Oklahomas' Adoption without consent law. I hope you take advantage the help available to you. Dont let pride leave you feeling miserable.


Chris
www.radiookc.com

[Dana]

Midtowner...Sometimes these matter need to go before the Court of Public Opinion. In this case (FD-2000-5322) the Father (NCP) filed a "Motion to Enforce Visitation." The CP had a lawyer paid for by the CP's mother. He in turn filed all sorts of legal paerwork, knowing that the Father could not afford an attorney. That Motion was filed back in 2003...there has never been a decision to this day...over 7 years later.

As for DHS...it is true that they will not enforce a custody order/visitation order. But as soon as the NCP misses a Child Support payment, DHS is all over that NCP to pay up. Visitation Orders ought to carry just as much weight as a Support Order...Agree?????

Well I wish they would collect the 42,000 I am owed for my daughter and the 40,000+ on my son in back child support but I am not holding my breath. I have 3 different court orders but so far hasn't done me any good.

[Mr T]

I find a side-issue in this thread to be very confusing. Possumfritter, you say you are disabled, cannot work, have not worked in quite some time. You "will not accept" disability. How do you keep the lights on? How do you pay for groceries? Why aren't you frozen to death in some abandoned warehouse somewhere? Do you own any shoes? Do you sew the elastic back in your underwear?

[Midtowner]

Well I wish they would collect the 42,000 I am owed for my daughter and the 40,000+ on my son in back child support but I am not holding my breath. I have 3 different court orders but so far hasn't done me any good.

You can't get blood out of a turnip. Of course, on the other hand, if you did hire a private attorney, they could pursue jail time for those guys. DHS generally won't do that because they view it as counterproductive. I don't. Jail is a pretty good motivator.

[PennyQuilts]

You can't get blood out of a turnip. Of course, on the other hand, if you did hire a private attorney, they could pursue jail time for those guys. DHS generally won't do that because they view it as counterproductive. I don't. Jail is a pretty good motivator.

Damn straight.

[jnorris2824]

Well I wish they would collect the 42,000 I am owed for my daughter and the 40,000+ on my son in back child support but I am not holding my breath. I have 3 different court orders but so far hasn't done me any good.

Dana, ... the kids are owed that money. Not you. No disrespect intended. If you could afford to increase your children's Quality of Life to that it would have been with father's income during the time frame associated you claim you are owed and you payed the difference.. then yes, I would say, you are owed. I can tell you from my perspective, that wouldn't be cheap. From my perspective, he owes the children.