Uptown / 23rd District

[Plutonic Panda]

I wasn't aware of the posted speed exactly. For some reason I thought it was 35.

This street needs to be redone entirely just like Classen. Median probably should be taken to allow room for protected bike lanes and an expanded sidewalk and this would be the best opportunity to build one of those streets with no curbs.





Maybe this street or the Western Ave. strip.

[Plutonic Panda]

This street in 1936.

[Canoe]

30 mph is the posted speed, but people often do 5 mph over, so 35 mph. Pedestrian areas should be 25 mph posted at most.

FWIW, a posted speed is really only good for enforcement when a cop is around... the design should be the limiting factor on what people actually feel safe driving, not a sign.

I not saying I am against this idea, but it will cause road rage. Oklahomans are used to wide straight lanes. Taking this away from them will increase the stress on the driver. Also you would have to get odot approval for the proposed changes.

[dankrutka]

I not saying I am against this idea, but it will cause road rage. Oklahomans are used to wide straight lanes. Taking this away from them will increase the stress on the driver. Also you would have to get odot approval for the proposed changes.

I absolutely do not think this is true. Drivers tend to react to their environment. Do Oklahomans, for example, rage out on the very skinny lanes on Peoria in Tulsa? No, they are far more concerned with driving safely. Stress in drivers because of tighter lanes is actually a good thing because it results in more cautious driving. But, yes, I'm sure ODOT will oppose anything that increases pedestrian safety.

[betts]

30 mph is the posted speed, but people often do 5 mph over, so 35 mph. Pedestrian areas should be 25 mph posted at most.

FWIW, a posted speed is really only good for enforcement when a cop is around... the design should be the limiting factor on what people actually feel safe driving, not a sign.

My precise worry about the "boulevard". Even if you ride the streetcar there pedestrians have to cross that big ole mass of concrete. I'd like a couple of well-placed speed bumps personally.

[LakeEffect]

I not saying I am against this idea, but it will cause road rage. Oklahomans are used to wide straight lanes. Taking this away from them will increase the stress on the driver. Also you would have to get odot approval for the proposed changes.

ODOT has no say in anything along NW 23rd Street.

Increasing the "stress" on a driver is a good thing. Thinner lanes cause the driver to actually have to focus on the roadway more, thereby becoming safer.

[OkiePoke]

Represented by architect Brian Fitzsimmons, the partners in The Pivot Project encountered repeated opposition from city traffic engineer Stuart Chai, who argued pedestrians should and would simply walk 50 feet to the next intersection and then another 50 feet back on the other side of the street to get to the parking lot.

I have no idea where Stuart got the 50 ft. The distance from the Tower Theater front door to the nearest crosswalk is 230 ft. There is a turnaround/cut in the median right in front of Tower, which would lead pedestrians to cross there.

I am glad this got approved.

[Urbanized]

My precise worry about the "boulevard". Even if you ride the streetcar there pedestrians have to cross that big ole mass of concrete. I'd like a couple of well-placed speed bumps personally.

Much like speed limit signs, speed bumps are the last refuge of a bad design. To put it into medical terms, it's an attempt to fix the symptoms rather than addressing the underlying disease. Speed bumps are also inherently dangerous for bicyclists and motorcyclists. 23rd needs a redesign. A road diet.

[Teo9969]

My precise worry about the "boulevard". Even if you ride the streetcar there pedestrians have to cross that big ole mass of concrete. I'd like a couple of well-placed speed bumps personally.

The boulevard will be fine as long as they put stop lights and crosswalks at every intersection and mid-block at any super blocks.

Not ever street can be a thin, pedestrian first road, and the Boulevard becoming the auto mover downtown will allow Reno and Sheridan to be come more multi-modal.

As per 23rd, it's going to be a difficult project because there is an absolute swath of vehicles that come through here. The city really needs to do a study on determining traffic patterns on 23rd crossing over broadway. Where are people going and why do they cross Broadway instead of taking I-235? If the majority are trying to reach Classen, I think people will just start making better use of 24th and 22nd to relieve some pressure from 23rd, but if there's that much traffic flowing between Portland and 23rd, they should really begin looking into subsidizing park-n-ride (or better, walk-n-ride) with the buses. The 023 should have amazing ridership, and if they increased frequency on that route to no more than 12 minutes (8 minutes would be preferable). Especially between Villa and the Capitol during peak hours, then you could probably convince people at the Capitol to take the bus to lunch instead of hopping in the car, alleviating some of the traffic issues during lunch, and you could potentially get these people to park at Shepard Mall and take the bus the rest of the way, instead of driving 20 MPH through a congested but more walkable 23rd between Classen and Broadway.

[baralheia]

Route 23 also loops through the north edge of the Innovation District, down Lincoln, east on NE 13th, north on Kelly, and back west on 23rd. An increased frequency on 23 would also pull in OU Med, the VA, and other office workers in the area. I work within walking distance of a stop over here, and if the frequency were more convenient I'd ride the bus to grab lunch instead of driving!

[Plutonic Panda]

Much like speed limit signs, speed bumps are the last refuge of a bad design. To put it into medical terms, it's an attempt to fix the symptoms rather than addressing the underlying disease. Speed bumps are also inherently dangerous for bicyclists and motorcyclists. 23rd needs a redesign. A road diet.

A road diet? It's only four lanes? I used to support narrowing this road, but if you narrow this it will cause traffic delays which will ultimately cause drivers to switch to the neighborhood roads. Will it not?

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^
Unlikely to cause traffic delays if the center median is turned into slip lanes at intersections or perhaps sacrificed entirely for a turn-only lane. Most of the backups right now are a result of left turns backing up traffic behind them, and people swerving around the backed-up traffic. The model should be (from the building frontage) wider sidewalks, protected bicycle lane, parallel parking lane, single traffic lane, center turn lane. Doing this would actually cause vehicular traffic to move much more smoothly, with less braking, avoidance maneuvers, lane changes, etc.

Essentially this, though more recent thinking is now suggesting placing bicycle lanes between the parallel spaces and the sidewalk instead of next to traffic:

[Urbanized]

From Road Diets (Roadway Reconfiguration) - Safety | Federal Highway Administration

The resulting benefits include a crash reduction of 19 to 47 percent, reduced vehicle speed differential, improved mobility and access by all road users, and integration of the roadway into surrounding uses that results in an enhanced quality of life. A key feature of a Road Diet is that it allows reclaimed space to be allocated for other uses, such as turn lanes, bus lanes, pedestrian refuge islands, bike lanes, sidewalks, bus shelters, parking or landscaping.

[Teo9969]

I really really really hate bike lanes between moving traffic and parked cars.

I am 100% okay with no bike lanes on 23rd, unless we want to do the Dutch version. In fact, it would be a great first road to try it on, and making 23rd a thoroughfare for bikes could help bike awareness for people who drive in the core (the most likely place for bikes to be in use).

[Uptowner]

Living on 24th I can offer a few views

A) Chad's road diet would be perfect. The rage...the absolute rage from the first person in line waiting to turn left for an entire cycle only to do so on yellow. Adding a turn lane would do wonders for the flow of traffic. FURTHERMORE. and hear me out. I would advocate for doing away with the street parking on the south side and doing this: a two way striped protected bike lane. no one rides a bike down 23rd because it's ****inf terrifying. Same goes for 36th and 10th. So how is a bike commuter to go E-W? That brings me to.

B) motorists and cyclists are already using 24th and 22nd to bypass traffic. And it's dangerous. I'm not here to say "it's a neighborhood road and it's only for residents!" But people are racing stop sign to stop sign (there's on on every single block) without paying much attention. My neighbors kids ride their bikes in the road and it scares the crap outta me.

I would mourn the loss of the median but welcome a turn lane the turns back into medians for pedestrian safety at intersections. With no turn lane or signal. If you need access to the hood use Dewey or Hudson. Leaving Walker and Shartel straight only. It makes sense in my head anyway. Although that would culminate all northbound traffic into the intersection of death that is 24th & walker. Forget I said anything!!!

C) I guess no one noticed but the mid block crossing was approved by city council two days ago and will include broad striping and a dedicated traffic signal to be tied in conjunction with the walker signal. This of course will do nothing to slow down traffic. And pray it's timed right so the red light racers don't careen into peds.

[David]

Nobody noticed? Panda linked Steve's article on it two days ago in this thread just up the page and the ongoing discussion about traffic on 23rd followed from that and from Pete's reply to it.

[Plutonic Panda]

Nobody noticed? Panda linked Steve's article on it two days ago in this thread just up the page and the ongoing discussion about traffic on 23rd followed from that and from Pete's reply to it.

Maybe everyone ingored me because of my posting for pro highways LOL.

But is a left hand turn lane good for walkability? What I have seen so far is that if you want to promote walkability, left and right turn lanes are a no no.

[Uptowner]

Except the lit 4 way intersections. Those could be straight only moving E-W. And turn the inside lanes of N-S Walker to turn lanes. But like I said before it would funnel all northern traffic to the Quasimodo of 24th & Walker. Which can't be fixed. Unless with a light. Look it up on google earth. It's got serious problems.

[CarlessInOKC]

I have no idea where Stuart got the 50 ft. The distance from the Tower Theater front door to the nearest crosswalk is 230 ft. There is a turnaround/cut in the median right in front of Tower, which would lead pedestrians to cross there.

I am glad this got approved.

He is saying the parking lot is located 50' from the intersection with Walker, which is correct. The cut in the median and the curb ramp that was placed in the sidewalk do encourage pedestrians to cross directly from the parking lot to the front of the theater, which was a problem.

[Pete]

New mural in the works; this would be across from The Rise on the east side of the building directly east of Big Truck Tacos:

[Urbanized]

I dig it

[dcsooner]

New mural in the works; this would be across from The Rise on the east side of the building directly east of Big Truck Tacos:

Don't dislike it, but do all murals/public art etc in OKC have to be or include buffalos, windmills, cowboys etc. Maybe abstract art or murals more contemporary or abstract would also be attractive

[Urbanized]

^^^^^^^^^
One of the more out-of-touch posts I've seen here in quite some time. I guess you haven't seen the dozens of murals that have appeared along Western, in Plaza District or throughout downtown over the past five to seven years, most of which don't feature the elements you mention and nearly all of which are contemporary in styling. It almost sounds like you live somewhere else.

[Bullbear]

Agreed with Urbanized. there are so many great murals in OKC and most are contemporary or abstract in nature.

[Teo9969]

Let's not forget OKC is home to the ****** building.