Omni Hotel

[Pete]

I'm not just saying there was intentional deceit; it has been well documented. In the last article on this subject even the Oklahoman stated that these 'necessities' were never mentioned during the MAPS 3 campaign.

The first needed change IMO is for the Alliance to become a fully public body and make their meetings and records open. The City seemed to be functioning fine before that group was formed.

Also, the City should stop using private groups like the Chamber, the Fairgrounds, and the Convention and Visitors Bureau to fund studies and surveys on which they act. If this information is so critical to decision making, then it should be fully public at the time it is performed.

As a reminder, the whole necessity of this hotel came from a 2008 report commissioned by the Chamber which has never been made public. They had that report in hand well before the MAPS 3 vote.


And finally, I've made this point many times: The Alliance often meets with the City Council in small groups specifically to circumvent open meetings laws. They merely avoid a quorum but pitch these ideas with great detail completely away from public view, which is why you see very little discussion when the item is ultimately brought before City Council for a vote. Even though no formal vote is taken in these small groups, effectively the matter is completely decided before the public even knows about it.

It is the opinion of the municipal counselor this practice does not violate open meetings law but I have spoken to experts on this subject who assert that it absolutely does. When I raised this point to the municipal counselor's office they basically said, "then get a lawyer". And I still may.

[Laramie]

The wheels are already in motion on the convention center & Omni conference hotel. The money approved for the MAPS III convention center did not include a conference hotel. Looking at what other major cities (Dallas, Phoenix, Nashville, Louisville) have convention center & hotels that will cost well over $500 million.

OKC is fortunate to have a convention center & hotel that will align with the Chesapeake Energy Arena once the OG&E substation is removed. Don't be surprised to see this project swell to well over $400 million.

Does anyone know if our recent September 12 Go-Bonds package passage have some funds which could be used on the convention center & hotel project's infrastructure?

[G.Walker]

In reality, the market for a full luxury high rise hotel is Oklahoma City is not there. So we are basically paying Omni to build a hotel here, otherwise they would of never built a hotel here with their own money just because we were building a new convention center.

[Laramie]

In reality, the market for a full luxury high rise hotel is Oklahoma City is not there. So we are basically paying Omni to build a hotel here, otherwise they would of never built a hotel here with their own money just because we were building a new convention center.

So true, don't know of any major city that received a free convention center hotel as a result of building a convention center.

Dallas' owes roughly $660 million on its new 1,001-room Omni. OKC got the best bargain for their investment ($86 million hotel/$37million parking garage which could escalate to $130 million--and Omni received a lot of assurances that competing hotels will not encroach upon their investment.

Compare Dallas' 1,001-room (660,000 per room) to OKC's 600-room Omni ($144,000 per room); plus we'll have 733 room total (+ Fairfield Inn - 133 rooms) on the tract of land assigned for the convention center/hotel complex.

[hoya]

I remember hearing before the vote that the convention center would probably require a new hotel, and that it would need some sort of public funding. It was talked about pretty openly on this website. Now obviously, that wasn't part of the ad campaign for MAPS 3, but it wasn't unknown.

Seems like we're getting a pretty good deal, all things considered. Maybe not the absolute bestest deal in the world, but pretty reasonable. I do have some concerns that the chamber of commerce is a little too buddy-buddy with the city council, but that doesn't mean this is a bad deal.

[jn1780]

The majority of the population didn't know about it, especially 8 years ago. The media landscape has changed a lot since then.

[BoulderSooner]

The majority of the population didn't know about it, especially 8 years ago. The media landscape has changed a lot since then.

The majority of the pop doesn’t know about it now

[Pete]

I remember hearing before the vote that the convention center would probably require a new hotel, and that it would need some sort of public funding. It was talked about pretty openly on this website. Now obviously, that wasn't part of the ad campaign for MAPS 3, but it wasn't unknown.

The point being that if they did know about this an advance (and they did, since 1) it was talked about and 2) the Chamber did the study in 2008 that is always used as the proof of need) they should have educated voters and included the needed funds as part of MAPS, instead of passing something that showed a $280 million budget then have it turn out to be almost twice that much... And causing the City to incur $50 million in interest charges because the money wasn't allocated.

And when it was discussed, it was mainly Ed Shadid forcing this issue, not the people trying to drive the project forward.


I don't see how anyone could follow this for the last 10 years and feel good about how it has been handled. Especially to the point of not even asking for accountability and change.

[Rover]

Pete, are you for, against or don't care about having a new CC? Just curious.

Do you advocate the city not progressing on projects or details of projects until they have the explicit detailed approval of a majority of the OKC voters, and that unless all details of city projects are known absolutely we will not move forward? Do you believe in change orders or do projects halt and get re-approved before changes occur?

[Pete]

Pete, are you for, against or don't care about having a new CC? Just curious.

Do you advocate the city not progressing on projects or details of projects until they have the explicit detailed approval of a majority of the OKC voters, and that unless all details of city projects are known absolutely we will not move forward? Do you believe in change orders or do projects halt and get re-approved before changes occur?

I'm fine with the convention center, just not at all happy about the way it's been handled, as I've explained in great detail.

And of course not everything should be voted on by the public and I never said that should be the case. The issue is being open and transparent throughout the existing approval process, and again I have documented what I see as the issues in that regard.

[Rover]

I don't see how anyone could follow this for the last 10 years and feel good about how it has been handled. Especially to the point of not even asking for accountability and change.

You continuously call them out. I would assume that is also accountability. You have a partner in Channel 4. Name names. File lawsuits (or get others to) on behalf of the citizens who apparently have been lied to and cheated. Let's see if the scoundrels will be voted out of office. That is the accountability referendum for the citizens.

[Pete]

A big part of my effort is tracking, interviewing, monitoring and writing about it here.

Otherwise, this and similar issues barely get a mention and there is no other watchdog function, as opposed to the state level where you have hundreds of journalists putting every $100 charge under the microscope.

The local press is far, far too cozy with City Hall and the various power brokers to monitor them properly.

[Jersey Boss]

Pete, do you think the weak mayor form of municipal government is inherently less accountable to the citizens when undertaking huge projects?

[TheTravellers]

...

The local press is far, far too cozy with City Hall and the various power brokers to monitor them properly.

So I guess this means no "KFOR and OKCTalk reveal stunning lack of oversight for MAPS3" headline will be forthcoming?

[Pete]

Pete, do you think the weak mayor form of municipal government is inherently less accountable to the citizens when undertaking huge projects?

They mayor's only real role is that of ambassador. The mayor only votes if there is a deadlock among the 8 council members so effectively holds less power than someone on the council.

And who holds city council accountable? Almost no one does... And the way these small groups are held in advance and outside the public eye, most of them make up their mind long before these bigger issues ever become public.


The central problem is that the local press and their bosses have far too personal relationships with city leaders, both the elected form and just the power brokers like the Chamber and big business types. Then, there is a massive conflict of interest because they sell a ton of advertising to Devon, CHK and everyone else.

This doesn't happen at the state level. Just look at Twitter and watch local reporters absolutely eviscerate state lawmakers and have virtually nothing to say about city government unless it is positive.

The net result is that you have journalists playing a hugely important watchdog role at the federal and state level, and if anything they are in bed with city government and leaders. It's completely messed up and why I chose to focus on these issues.

You think if the state caused $50 million to be fritted away on interest that could have easily been avoided there wouldn't be hundreds of reporters all over their case, not to mention the teacher's union, state employees and legions of others? That just doesn't happen at the city level and there are many of the same issues, they just go unreported or effectively swept under the rug.

As I documented in great detail, look no further than how this $50 million interest charge was handled by both the city and then the Oklahoman.

[krisb]

Thank you, Pete, for reporting and investigating these local issues when no one else will. I would like to plug Strong Towns, which is a movement towards locally driven, locally financed, incremental development that is fiscally sustainable over time. OKC could learn a thing or two from them as we are doing all of the things Strong Towns advocates say not to do. The convention center hotel financing issue is a prime example.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/...he-bottom.html

[G.Walker]

The convention center & hotel is being paid from tax dollars from people who will probably never use neither, that is a shame, & its the most expensive of the MAP3 project. The biggest positive of the convention center is that it will provide permanent full time jobs.

People from out of town will be staying at the hotel & using the CC more than the locals. It's not like the park, street car, & wellness centers where the locals will use on a daily basis.

Just my opinion, but I could of thought of several different ways to spend close to $500 million that could benefit the city & will present high use to the locals.

[Jersey Boss]

They mayor's only real role is that of ambassador. The mayor only votes if there is a deadlock among the 8 council members so effectively holds less power than someone on the council.

That is what I was lead to believe. While some feel that the voters have the power to hold those responsible through elections, the real power brokers and decision makers are not directly accountable. The city manager is not directly accountable to the voters, yet holds far more power and influence then the mayor. The voters put way to much stock into the influence and power of the mayor when he really is nothing more than an ambassador.

[Rover]

People stay home and don't vote on council seats. Then they accuse and complain. There is accountability but our citizens seem to uninterested to exercise it. We get weak people elected with a few paltry votes.

[soonerguru]

The mayor does have the power to appoint a number of people to boards and commissions. That is a fairly strong executive power.

[Pete]

The mayor does have the power to appoint a number of people to boards and commissions. That is a fairly strong executive power.

Yes, excellent point.

[GaryOKC6]

The convention center & hotel is being paid from tax dollars from people who will probably never use neither, that is a shame, & its the most expensive of the MAP3 project. The biggest positive of the convention center is that it will provide permanent full time jobs.

People from out of town will be staying at the hotel & using the CC more than the locals. It's not like the park, street car, & wellness centers where the locals will use on a daily basis.

Just my opinion, but I could of thought of several different ways to spend close to $500 million that could benefit the city & will present high use to the locals.

The out of town people will also be paying millions of dollars into a tax base where the don't live. Tourism is a 4 billion dollar industry in Oklahoma. Oklahoma County get the largest share of it. I believe that once it is open that locals will also be using it. I attend events at the Cox Center every month.

[Urbanized]

The out of town people will also be paying millions of dollars into a tax base where the don't live. Tourism is a 4 billion dollar industry in Oklahoma. Oklahoma County get the largest share of it. I believe that once it is open that locals will also be using it. I attend events at the Cox Center every month.

Yes, there are a number of replies in this thread that I have been trying to find time to address, and this was one. The fact that G.Walker - who is a quality, insightful poster on this site - doesn't connect the dots that the chief benefit of the CC and hotel is not jobs but instead GROWTH IN SALES TAX REVENUE (a direct benefit to all OKC residents and our quality of life) just goes to show how little our citizenry grasps about the impact of this industry.

Sure, it creates a few hundred hotel and cc staff jobs. And it creates service industry jobs for dining and other services required by attendees. But most importantly it brings NEW CITY TAX REVENUE from sources outside of our metro. The CC is one of the only MAPS projects that does this directly, which is one of the reasons it is a priority for the City and for the Chamber.

[krisb]

How does the increase in tax revenue compare with the current and future costs of the public subsidy, interest, and maintenance of the facilities? And also compared with other possible land uses on the same parcel that may not require a public subsidy?

[pw405]

Yes, there are a number of replies in this thread that I have been trying to find time to address, and this was one. The fact that G.Walker - who is a quality, insightful poster on this site - doesn't connect the dots that the chief benefit of the CC and hotel is not jobs but instead GROWTH IN SALES TAX REVENUE (a direct benefit to all OKC residents and our quality of life) just goes to show how little our citizenry grasps about the impact of this industry.

Sure, it creates a few hundred hotel and cc staff jobs. And it creates service industry jobs for dining and other services required by attendees. But most importantly it brings NEW CITY TAX REVENUE from sources outside of our metro. The CC is one of the only MAPS projects that does this directly, which is one of the reasons it is a priority for the City and for the Chamber.

This is a good point Urbanized. IMHO, I agree with Pete that transparency is lacking and needs to be fixed. On one hand, I'd prefer that the general "all government is evil" public is never made aware of these issues because I want future MAPS projects to pass. On the other hand, I REALLY applaud Pete for "sticking it to the man" by tracking and reporting these additional costs and mismanagement issues. At times, I'm sure Pete feels like it is a thankless position to be in.

At the end of the day, OKC needs as much tax revenue as humanly possible, and the BEST source to get tax revenue is from those that don't live in your city. With the state government in shambles, and the feds pushing for the same OK/KS "cut taxes to prosper" ideology, I assume that OKC is going to have to do everything they can in their power to ensure that our infrastructure needs are funded properly. If that means an expensive convention center, then I'm for it, reluctantly.