Amazon

[gopokes88]

They don't seem to mind Comcast/Charter, and Sinclair/Tribune. Now, after gobbling up DirecTV, AT&T is eyeing Time Warner and it looks likely enough to make bets on, rather than against. Comcast/Charter is in the dating phase with Sprint. I don't think they'll even bat an eye at Amazon/Whole Foods.

That was a different administration. This administration hates the Washington Post, and Jeff Bezos owns the Post. Those are non-political facts. Therefore it's not far fetched to think they might kill the deal.

[Pete]

Roof is on and they are moving fast.

[Rover]

That was a different administration. This administration hates the Washington Post, and Jeff Bezos owns the Post. Those are non-political facts. Therefore it's not far fetched to think they might kill the deal.

On what legal basis would they kill the deal? Whole Foods is such a small part of the grocery industry it certainly won't be restraint of trade.

[gopokes88]

On what legal basis would they kill the deal? Whole Foods is such a small part of the grocery industry it certainly won't be restraint of trade.

They can find something, or just hold it up with studies indefinitely.

[chuck5815]

On what legal basis would they kill the deal? Whole Foods is such a small part of the grocery industry it certainly won't be restraint of trade.

http://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/a...itrust-paradox

This is a long but very interesting note. She basically argues that the existing anti-trust framework does a poor job of regulating companies like Amazon, primarily because Amazon's business practices haven't amounted to an illegal restraint of trade--at least when viewed on a short time horizon. As you know, Anti-trust scrutiny is almost entirely focused on whether a business's activity would negatively impact consumers or other stakeholders in the near term, and most of Amazon's growth has either occurred organically or through acquisitions of smaller competitors (i.e. the kind of activity that slips by the government's radar).

That doesn't mean, however, that the government should turn a blind eye to what's going on in Seattle and in fulfillment centers across the country. Left unchecked, Amazon is going to close in on 40-50% market share in a number of categories, while continuing to devastate the commercial real estate sector and possibly even the shipping sector if it figures out realistic ways to cut out UPS and other shippers. Is it tenable for the government to stand idly by while Jeff continues to consolidate market power? Do we want Jeff to be the next Carlos Slim? I appreciate Amazon as a platform, but I'm not sure its current trajectory/structure is a good thing over the long run.

In terms of solutions, I like the idea of treating Amazon like a common carrier. Even Bezos has admitted that he thinks of Amazon like a Utility. So let's give them a few more hoops to jump through, starting with blocking the Whole Foods deal.

[mugofbeer]

Blocking Amazon's purchase of Whole Foods will never happen. Its not being talked about and it has plenty of competition.

[stile99]

Amazon-Whole Foods Deal Clears Last Two Major Hurdles

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/23/t...er=rss&emc=rss

[mugofbeer]

There might be a lot of things we can wish for, but to block this merger, there must be a legal reason to do so. If there is no legal means to do it, it won't happen. If anything, the lower prices sure to come will benefit the public

[chuck5815]

It's going to be a real shame when Amazon and Walmart are the only grocers in this country.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...0-on-first-day

[stile99]

43% price cuts? The bastards!!!

[traxx]

I hear they'll also be offering discounts etc. to prime members.

[bchris02]

It's going to be a real shame when Amazon and Walmart are the only grocers in this country.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...0-on-first-day

That's almost how it's been in OKC for years now since Albertson's pulled out of the market. Still, Amazon will have to open many more Whole Foods locations to really get the kind of market share that Wal-Mart has. I doubt that brick-and-mortar will be a focus for the company post-merger, but OKC is a market that I think could really benefit from an expansion of the brand if it were to happen.

[chuck5815]

That's almost how it's been in OKC for years now since Albertson's pulled out of the market. Still, Amazon will have to open many more Whole Foods locations to really get the kind of market share that Wal-Mart has. I doubt that brick-and-mortar will be a focus for the company post-merger, but OKC is a market that I think could really benefit from an expansion of the brand if it were to happen.

yea, i think you're right. AMZN will use the WF locations to prove the viability of the "no-cashier" concept (and then license it to every other retailer), and shift most of the former cashiers to online order fulfillment. And I'm guessing that the price of Prime might increase again. I just don't know if $99/year can cover all of the existing benefits/shipping costs + the increased orders associated with WF.

[OKC_on_mines]

It's going to be a real shame when Amazon and Walmart are the only grocers in this country.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...0-on-first-day

Its interesting though chuck, walk mart did the same damn thing didn't they? Lol, now look at Amazon about to push them out (or at least try to). To think, I remember when wal-mart shoved k-mart, and target (in some cases), and a host of other competitors out of the way. Now amazon, the day after the merger, and after Walmart and google combined to try and fight amazon with that home robot dealie.....amazon is literally going for the jugular lol. Its comical to me. But reality sets in for me because although our government hates a monopoly and these moguls know it they could still corner the market and make our lives miserable smh.

[jerrywall]

43% price cuts? The bastards!!!

Watch the documentary - The high cost of low price - sometime.

[bombermwc]

Wait....are you guys comparing Walmart with Whole Foods here? I mean you realize the microscopic market that goes to WF doesn't hold a candle to the droves of walmart zombies, right? Amazon and WF can merge all they want, but Wally World is still going to continue to rake in more money every day and keep building more stores. They're not quite the lumbering beast people think they are. We don't see the concept stores in OKC. But Wally's been doing the cashier-less system for years. Been doing the order online, pickup at store thing for years too (via the bins.....groceries/etc, not just stuff).

I have no love-loss for walmart, but with relatives working in the corporate office, i hear of things that the public doesn't always see. I'd just assume avoid one at all cost, but millions upon millions of people give them money every day, Whole Foods is a premium brand, which means it's the first thing to suffer in any economic downturn. And with more and more competitors offering the same thing for a lower price, their market is thinning. That $5 tomato isn't going to sell, but the .50C ones at walmart will....always, and in sufficient quantity to overtake that thin grocery profit margin in the blink of an eye. Hell, even WM is working towards local sources. Helps their transportation cost and gives them an edge since WF can't get that scale with their smaller footprint.

I dont mean to sound like a walmart flag waver....im not, im just trying to be realistic in what this means for Amazon/WF compared to others. WF sold because they weren't doing well. If anything, i expect their prices to fall some.

[OKC_on_mines]

Duly noted sir. I guess I jumped the gun with all the recent news. You make good points.

What other things have Walmart done that we aren't aware of as general public?

[chuck5815]

Wait....are you guys comparing Walmart with Whole Foods here? I mean you realize the microscopic market that goes to WF doesn't hold a candle to the droves of walmart zombies, right?

I don't think anyone is comparing Walmart and Whole Foods. What we're saying is that the margins in the grocery business are already razor thin, and that Walmart and Amazon/Whole Foods are in a position to price many of the other major players out of business. And I think it's a bit of a miscalculation to look only at people who shop at WF right now. Amazon has 85 million Prime Members. Most of those people buy almost everything imaginable from Amazon, but they don't really buy groceries. The goal with the Whole Foods deal is to get those 85 million people to start buying groceries either at Whole Foods or on Amazon. And, if Jeff is successful, there's major risk for the middle-market grocers like Kroger. That's why Kroger's stock is down 37% this year.

Amazon and WF can merge all they want, but Wally World is still going to continue to rake in more money every day and keep building more stores. They're not quite the lumbering beast people think they are. We don't see the concept stores in OKC. But Wally's been doing the cashier-less system for years. Been doing the order online, pickup at store thing for years too (via the bins.....groceries/etc, not just stuff).

Sure, but checking out your own items while someone looks over your shoulder isn't even close to the technology Amazon is leveraging in its Amazon Go locations. The idea that you walk in, grab your items, walk out, the store knows exactly what you bought, and charges your Chase Sapphire Card? That's miles and miles ahead of Walmart's current systems.

I have no love-loss for walmart, but with relatives working in the corporate office, i hear of things that the public doesn't always see. I'd just assume avoid one at all cost, but millions upon millions of people give them money every day, Whole Foods is a premium brand, which means it's the first thing to suffer in any economic downturn. And with more and more competitors offering the same thing for a lower price, their market is thinning. That $5 tomato isn't going to sell, but the .50C ones at walmart will....always, and in sufficient quantity to overtake that thin grocery profit margin in the blink of an eye. Hell, even WM is working towards local sources. Helps their transportation cost and gives them an edge since WF can't get that scale with their smaller footprint.

I dont mean to sound like a walmart flag waver....im not, im just trying to be realistic in what this means for Amazon/WF compared to others. WF sold because they weren't doing well. If anything, i expect their prices to fall some.

You're admitting that WF is premium and then conceding that it will, in time, become a discounter, and I tend to agree. Amazon doesn't give a flying F about being "premium." Jeff just wants a piece of absolutely every transaction that happens in this country. And he realizes that discounting is the way to achieve that. They've already begun to lower prices, and, even so, I'm not sure that selling organic, cruelty free avocados for $1.99/lb. is sustainable, even for a company like Amazon. With that said, it won't surprise me when Amazon starts to roll back many of the organic offerings, replacing them with the kind of product you might find in a Homeland or a Kroger.

In the end, this much is clear: AMZN will lower prices and quality at WF, turn many of the WF locations into quasi-distribution centers, make life miserable for the existing WF associates (just like they do for the folks working in the distribution centers), continue to gain consumer-facing market share, and eventually raise prices in a few years when there's less competition in the grocery space.

[Urbanized]

Had lunch with a former employee yesterday who essentially makes his living as an Amazon seller these days. I was shocked at some of the stuff he revealed about how predatory the company is with its own sellers. Basically they treat them as product R&D. He said the most important thing is that you make sure never to make to MUCH money, because if you do they will directly contact YOUR supplier and take you out of the middle man role, requiring the supplier to sell directly to them and allowing nobody else to sell that product. There were a bunch of other things that were really nasty, but that one stuck in my craw the most.

[ABCOKC]

Was exploring this area the other night since I don't get down SW much, and wow. There really is a ton of development happening in this part of the city.

Also this building is absolutely massive in person, and they seem intent on getting it done judging by the fact that the construction crew was hard at work when I drove by at 1:30 a.m.

[u50254082]

Had lunch with a former employee yesterday who essentially makes his living as an Amazon seller these days. I was shocked at some of the stuff he revealed about how predatory the company is with its own sellers. Basically they treat them as product R&D. He said the most important thing is that you make sure never to make to MUCH money, because if you do they will directly contact YOUR supplier and take you out of the middle man role, requiring the supplier to sell directly to them and allowing nobody else to sell that product. There were a bunch of other things that were really nasty, but that one stuck in my craw the most.

I sell a few items a year on Amazon and I pray that I never have to compete with Amazon Warehouse Deals. They try to beat anyone by a few cents while having the backing off the parent company if any part of the transaction goes bad.

For us indie sellers, there isn't much we can do in those situations because the selling fees are just so high.

So it doesn't surprise me that they are looking at marketplace sellers to find out what items they should sell themselves.

[TheTravellers]

Had lunch with a former employee yesterday who essentially makes his living as an Amazon seller these days. I was shocked at some of the stuff he revealed about how predatory the company is with its own sellers. Basically they treat them as product R&D. He said the most important thing is that you make sure never to make to MUCH money, because if you do they will directly contact YOUR supplier and take you out of the middle man role, requiring the supplier to sell directly to them and allowing nobody else to sell that product. There were a bunch of other things that were really nasty, but that one stuck in my craw the most.

Sounds *very* similar to the way Wal-Mart works (or used to).

[bombermwc]

chuck, you put words in my mouth. I dont see WHole Foods becoming a discounter. There are too many of them out there for Amazon to be interested in that. They wanted the premium brand, otherwise they could have gone after Kroger/H&B/etc. But with so many new competitors in the premium market, WF has been refusing to bring prices down and that's hurt them as people go to the other stores. What i'm saying is that Amazon is going to bring some smarts to the table and bring the prices in line with the competition so it's only 3/4 Paycheck instead of of Whole Paycheck.

And my points about WalMart were to say that just because we dont see it here in OKC, doesn't mean that the corporate side isn't trying to push technology (that makes sense for them). They aren't a backwards company by any means. And to also say that any view that this merger would cause WalMart to shake in its boots is an exaggeration.

[gopokes88]

chuck, you put words in my mouth. I dont see WHole Foods becoming a discounter. There are too many of them out there for Amazon to be interested in that. They wanted the premium brand, otherwise they could have gone after Kroger/H&B/etc. But with so many new competitors in the premium market, WF has been refusing to bring prices down and that's hurt them as people go to the other stores. What i'm saying is that Amazon is going to bring some smarts to the table and bring the prices in line with the competition so it's only 3/4 Paycheck instead of of Whole Paycheck.

And my points about WalMart were to say that just because we dont see it here in OKC, doesn't mean that the corporate side isn't trying to push technology (that makes sense for them). They aren't a backwards company by any means. And to also say that any view that this merger would cause WalMart to shake in its boots is an exaggeration.

I bought Wal Mart stock after reading this

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...zon/102382666/

90% of Americans live within 10 miles of a Walmart

[tfvc.org]

You also have to take into consideration that Whole Foods spends a lot of money doing research into where to put their stores. They are primarily in or very close to prominent neighborhoods. Those neighborhoods can also afford the Prime membership fees. Amazon buying Whole foods puts them at the doorstep of the majority of their Prime members making their 2 hour grocery order to door delivery service that much easier to achieve without them having to spend the money to research where to put those distribution centers. Whole Foods will be those centers. It totally makes sense in their ultimate strategy to have a piece of every dollar spent in US/Global economy.