Friends for a Better Boulevard

[jn1780]

Steve writes "Final thought: the new boulevard won’t open in 2014. Write it down now." Not sure this is new. Michael McNutt wrote this in The Oklahoman on January 7th this year:

Downtown OKC boulevard completion won't be until 2016 | News OK

I guess at that time ODOT thought things might get delayed.

Depends on what option they go with. Their about to get started on the east and west ends and it wont take long if it is decided to go with the grid.

[Just the facts]

Downtown Boulevard Back to Four Options | News OK

Answers to Steve's four questions.

1) California Ave will not change in length because of what is happening at the Stage Center site. That section of street is already close.
2) 20 years ago all of downtown was a homeless shelter. California Ave will improve just like the rest of downtown has improved, which should help Film Row 1 block away.
3) The convention center, Union Park, and the arena will still have a boulevard running by them with ample access to 4 interstate ramps.
4) I actually can't believe this is a serious question so I won't bother answering.

[Just the facts]

I have also heard some rumblings of tying the I-40 West portion into Sheridan instead of California. There are two ways to do that. One would be to create flyovers - which we are trying to avoid, and the second way is to make a signalized intersection with left turn lanes. I ask why do that. Making everyone go from the I-40 ramp to Sheridan at a single intersection would cause significant rush hour back-ups and probably play right into ODOT's hands. Just leave the connection at California Ave and the drivers will have 7 different routes to transition over to Sheridan. Remove the elevated portion west of Western and there would be 10 more ways to do it. 17 ways for cars to go is better than 1 way.

on edit:
Sorry, my counting is off - it is 20 ways. 20 is better than 17 which is better than 1.

[CaptDave]

It makes no sense to replace one diagonal shift to the south for one to the north to Sheridan. The Two Boulevards on the Grid is all about restoring as many connections as possible - this is accomplished by eliminating the diagonal section between Western and Lee. By doing this, maximum flexibility in routes is attained along with a very large area of land for redevelopment. This option also eliminates the right turn only slip lanes from the other options providing even more connections for people to go north or south to their destinations rather than limiting their options needlessly. Simple solutions are generally better - direct, at grade connections to California and 3rd Street are the most effective (and least costly) ways to meet every goal of the boulevard project.

[Geographer]

I have also heard some rumblings of tying the I-40 West portion into Sheridan instead of California. There are two ways to do that. One would be to create flyovers - which we are trying to avoid, and the second way is to make a signalized intersection with left turn lanes. I ask why do that. Making everyone go from the I-40 ramp to Sheridan at a single intersection would cause significant rush hour back-ups and probably play right into ODOT's hands. Just leave the connection at California Ave and the drivers will have 7 different routes to transition over to Sheridan. Remove the elevated portion west of Western and there would be 10 more ways to do it. 17 ways for cars to go is better than 1 way.

on edit:
Sorry, my counting is off - it is 20 ways. 20 is better than 17 which is better than 1.

Amen! You may have more intersections with the grid option (which I'm for), but people have more choices and traffic will disperse! much better than pushing everyone 1 way in/out

[Just the facts]

Amen! You may have more intersections with the grid option (which I'm for), but people have more choices and traffic will disperse! much better than pushing everyone 1 way in/out

And heaven forbid there is an accident at that 1 intersection.

[Snowman]

And heaven forbid there is an accident at that 1 intersection.

However it is done, there is just one street that it will line up with at first, which will have queueing no matter what when the light is red. While I like it just connecting with California, I would take connecting Sheridan verses any of the options connecting it further south (which they seem stuck on 3rd) that causes a major disruption in the grid and makes itself a worse option to ever use the boulevard to access large parts of downtown verses using Shields/Gaylord exit coming from the west or the Western exit coming from the east.

[CaptDave]

^ I agree with that. Connecting to Sheridan is far less disrupting to traffic patterns than the Western to Lee section in the "old" plan. But my personal preference is still the straight, simple connection to California from the west and building the grand boulevard we have all heard about along the 3rd Street right of way.

[HangryHippo]

^ I agree with that. Connecting to Sheridan is far less disrupting to traffic patterns than the Western to Lee section in the "old" plan. But my personal preference is still the straight, simple connection to California from the west and building the grand boulevard we have all heard about along the 3rd Street roght of way.

I agree with connecting to California from the west and building along the 3rd St. ROW. They could make SW 3rd the Grand Blvd. from Bass Pro all the way to Klein, where they could have the roundabout/traffic circle. It would be awesome. Then they could go about reconnecting the grid along the way, everybody wins. Except for Lower Bricktown.

[Just the facts]

Then they could go about reconnecting the grid along the way, everybody wins. Except for Lower Bricktown.

It is too bad ODOT didn't try something different on the I-40 east connection.

[BoulderSooner]

I agree with connecting to California from the west and building along the 3rd St. ROW. They could make SW 3rd the Grand Blvd. from Bass Pro all the way to Klein, where they could have the roundabout/traffic circle. It would be awesome. Then they could go about reconnecting the grid along the way, everybody wins. Except for Lower Bricktown.

the blvd connection at the east end will be above grade until about half way past harkins theatres with a turn into bricktown at hopefully oklahoma

[HangryHippo]

It is too bad ODOT didn't try something different on the I-40 east connection.

I was thinking that exact thing when I was looking at Google Maps this morning. They really butchered that interchange. Of course, that's nothing new for ODOT.

[HangryHippo]

the blvd connection at the east end will be above grade until about half way past harkins theatres with a turn into bricktown at hopefully oklahoma

Exactly why I said everybody wins except Lower Bricktown.

[catch22]

I love the idea of a straight shot down 3rd street and a straight shot down California. Simplicity does have some merit, KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.

[Larry OKC]

They still need to bring it down to grade from/to the West connection as quickly as they can...the way it is now they have reused the old crosstown elevated path (you know that elevated old road that was a danger and HAD to be replaced with a new alignment, it couldn't be redecked etc) across Penn continuing on to Western.

[Buffalo Bill]

the blvd connection at the east end will be above grade until about half way past harkins theatres with a turn into bricktown at hopefully oklahoma

At the east end the blvd will be above grade from Toby Keith's to the east.

[jn1780]

There isn't much they can do with lower Bricktown anyway since its blocked from Reno because of the Canal except for Oklahoma and they still need to get the ROW from Uhaul for that. There is also the railroad viaduct going through blocking things off.

[OKCisOK4me]

There isn't much they can do with lower Bricktown anyway since its blocked from Reno because of the Canal except for Oklahoma and they still need to get the ROW from Uhaul for that. There is also the railroad viaduct going through blocking things off.

That's why they're going to build a bridge for that part of the viaduct for the boulevard to go under the tracks.

[Doug Loudenback]

From DCStreets.blog.org:

Oklahoma DOT Must Consider Restoring Street Grid in Downtown OKC
by Angie Schmitt
June 24, 2013

In a rare victory against state DOT standard operating procedure, residents of Oklahoma City last week managed to compel the Oklahoma Department of Transportation to consider a redeveloped street grid as an alternative to a wide, high-speed boulevard through the city’s downtown.

A highly-organized group of volunteers calling themselves Friends of a Better Boulevard has been challenging Oklahoma DOT’s plans for an area near downtown where the I-40 elevated highway was recently torn down. ODOT had originally proposed an elevated highway-like road through the “core-to-shore” area, where the city had been planning a walkable, mixed-use neighborhood.

So far, the OKC advocates, with the support of City Councilman Ed Shadid, keep on winning.

Their first victory was challenging the state’s environmental analysis for I-40. The state had conducted a single environmental impact study for the I-40 teardown, the construction of the boulevard that would take its place, and an I-40 replacement highway nearby. But advocates successfully argued that the $85 million boulevard project was large enough to deserve its own environmental impact statement.

Now, in another major victory, OKC advocates have changed the DOT’s “alternatives analysis” process — part of the environmental impact study. This process is meant to evaluate a set of options for the project; generally state DOTs just trot out of a handful of similar road plans with slightly different alignments. But Friends of a Better Boulevard and its allies argued that the DOT should add a proposal that differs significantly from the “boulevard” plan: the reconstruction and enhancement of the original street grid, known as “Alternate D.” And last week, FHWA intervened on the advocates’ behalf and ordered the state to add Alternate D to the analysis.

“The Federal Highway Administration has clearly told ODOT that they must respect the widespread outcry from the people of OKC to study the option,” Shadid told his Facebook followers Wednesday. “By trying to funnel traffic to one high speed corridor in which cars cannot exit to reach potential development along the boulevard, one impedes economic development as well as forgoes the creation of walkable destinations and place-making that might otherwise be possible.”

Friends of a Better Boulevard’s Bob Kemper, a former ODOT engineer, said the wide boulevard would divide downtown, much like the structure it replaced.

“We just thought that was the wrong way to go,” he said. Kemper said the grid option “seems to be the favorite plan of the majority of folks in Oklahoma City.”

Kemper said he just hopes ODOT doesn’t use inflated traffic modeling to rule out the concept.

Between now and July 2, Friends of a Better Boulevard is hosting a letter-writing campaign to public officials to show support for Alternate D.

Good stuff, I'm thinking. Chalk up a big plus for Ed Shadid, in my book. Of course, this is just a preliminary victory for the "grid" proponents, but, hey, it's a huge step in the right direction.

[Tier2City]

Good stuff, I'm thinking. Chalk up a big plus for Ed Shadid, in my book. Of course, this is just a preliminary victory for the "grid" proponents, but, hey, it's a huge step in the right direction.

Ed made an important contribution but he was one of many. A lot of people toiled hard on this issue, not least on collecting and preparing much of the information and arguments that Ed presented.

[Doug Loudenback]

Ed made an important contribution but he was one of many. A lot of people toiled hard on this issue, not least on collecting and preparing much of the information and arguments that Ed presented.

I completely agree ... Ed was one of many who toiled hard on this issue. The article's statement, "the widespread outcry from the people of OKC," speaks to the many others involved with this. I'm just wanting to give Shadid credit where credit is due, which is something that several in OkcTalk, lately, seem to have difficulty being willing to do these days. To some here, he has come to be anathema. Obviously, I'm not one of the members of that group.

[Tier2City]

I completely agree ... Ed was one of many who toiled hard on this issue. I'm just want to give him credit where credit is due, which is something that several in OkcTalk, lately, seem to have difficulty being willing to do these days.

That's fine. But will he give credit to everyone else?

[Doug Loudenback]

That's fine. But will he give credit to everyone else?

Huh? Did you see something where he pretended to take all of the credit? I've yet to see ANY issue where Shadid basks himself in glory ... let alone taking credit for the accomplishments of other citizens. If you didn't have a source wherein Shadid took credit for this development to the exclusion of other involved citizens, that's a completely absurd remark for you to make. If you did, please post it ... with a link.

[Buffalo Bill]

From DCStreets.blog.org:

Oklahoma DOT Must Consider Restoring Street Grid in Downtown OKC
by Angie Schmitt
June 24, 2013

In a rare victory against state DOT standard operating procedure, residents of Oklahoma City last week managed to compel the Oklahoma Department of Transportation to consider a redeveloped street grid as an alternative to a wide, high-speed boulevard through the city’s downtown.

A highly-organized group of volunteers calling themselves Friends of a Better Boulevard has been challenging Oklahoma DOT’s plans for an area near downtown where the I-40 elevated highway was recently torn down. ODOT had originally proposed an elevated highway-like road through the “core-to-shore” area, where the city had been planning a walkable, mixed-use neighborhood.

So far, the OKC advocates, with the support of City Councilman Ed Shadid, keep on winning.

Their first victory was challenging the state’s environmental analysis for I-40. The state had conducted a single environmental impact study for the I-40 teardown, the construction of the boulevard that would take its place, and an I-40 replacement highway nearby. But advocates successfully argued that the $85 million boulevard project was large enough to deserve its own environmental impact statement.

Now, in another major victory, OKC advocates have changed the DOT’s “alternatives analysis” process — part of the environmental impact study. This process is meant to evaluate a set of options for the project; generally state DOTs just trot out of a handful of similar road plans with slightly different alignments. But Friends of a Better Boulevard and its allies argued that the DOT should add a proposal that differs significantly from the “boulevard” plan: the reconstruction and enhancement of the original street grid, known as “Alternate D.” And last week, FHWA intervened on the advocates’ behalf and ordered the state to add Alternate D to the analysis.

“The Federal Highway Administration has clearly told ODOT that they must respect the widespread outcry from the people of OKC to study the option,” Shadid told his Facebook followers Wednesday. “By trying to funnel traffic to one high speed corridor in which cars cannot exit to reach potential development along the boulevard, one impedes economic development as well as forgoes the creation of walkable destinations and place-making that might otherwise be possible.”

Friends of a Better Boulevard’s Bob Kemper, a former ODOT engineer, said the wide boulevard would divide downtown, much like the structure it replaced.

“We just thought that was the wrong way to go,” he said. Kemper said the grid option “seems to be the favorite plan of the majority of folks in Oklahoma City.”

Kemper said he just hopes ODOT doesn’t use inflated traffic modeling to rule out the concept.

Between now and July 2, Friends of a Better Boulevard is hosting a letter-writing campaign to public officials to show support for Alternate D.

.

This article by Angie Schmitt is so full of half-truths and wrong information that it borders on the ridiculous.

[Doug Loudenback]

Since you evidently know the other half of the truth, what is it?