Pour (formerly Sanctuary)

[stjohn]

Wasn’t Flashback initially going in on 23rd somewhere? The Rise, maybe? Obviously we’ll never know how that would have worked out, but man, adding a successful Flashback plus two other bars to what’s already happened in Uptown would have made that a really a great little stretch.

[onthestrip]

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

Definitely the truest thing you said.

Also, Im not sure you speak for as many people as you think. I know plenty of Christians, Catholics especially, that would happily go here for an evening of fun and fellowship.

[JRod1980]

I'll answer this for you but I want you to understand it is not an attack on you or your bar. I'm simply going to convey why it's offensive without even stepping foot in the bar. I know this because some of this stuff is offensive to me as a Christian. That said I'm not your enemy here. I'm not gonna protest, go on social media rants, or tell all my friends why they shouldn't go. I'm just not your customer. You know the whole middle ground thing. I'm answering this because you seem genuinely curious.

Let's start with the entire concept, "a fun light hearted take on religion". To a Christian, there is nothing light hearted about any of this. When you die you go to heaven or hell for all eternity. And please don't come back with any if you go to this bar it means you're going to hell nonsense. Not what I'm saying at all. I'm simply conveying the frame of reference, and that is none of this is "light hearted", it's serious with very serious consequences.

A "church themed bar" is just not a good thing. It aligns with nothing in scripture. There's a million reasons why and I just don't have the time to get into them.

Serving "Holy Sangria served in a chalice" comes across as mocking communion.
"singers will don choir robes before taking the stage" mocking the act of worship.
Kinda goes against the "God is not to be mocked" verse. (Galatians 6:7) I'd rather error on the side of caution when it comes to mocking God. Particularity when it's pretty easy to just go to one of the other 384 cool bars OKC has now. I get it, others will see it as just harmless fun and they're entitled to that belief/opinion. You won't ever convince me it's anything short of mocking God. That'll be the majority of what Christians think. And no, I don't need to "try new things" I'm pretty close minded when it comes to my faith, as we were commanded to be in the world but not of it.

Last, Christians feel mocked enough as it is in the US. Whether they actually are or aren't isn't the debate, the point is they feel that way. At first read this absolutely 100% feels like the bar is mocking Christians and people will be instantly turned off, never to even try. The fact that the article even has to qualify the bar being ok and not offensive, with the phrase "a respectful take", kinda tells you all you need to know. Like yelling, "I'm the King" or "I'm not a racist, but".

Hope that answers your question. If it succeeds good for you, if it fails it'll be pretty obvious why. Let capitalism do it's thing.

gopokes88, I get it, you gotta stay true to yourself and your opinions. However, for the sake of conversation, I am a bit curious if you think it's offensive for a church to hold their ministry inside of a pub or brew house? or for a church to hold events at bars in order to recruit new members? Is that much more different then a church themed bar, highlighting the things people enjoy about church?

if you have a chance read these articles below:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...915-story.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...bers-with-beer

http://www.knoxnews.com/story/life/2...ind/511773001/

https://churchleaders.com/outreach-m...local-bar.html

Without giving you a full detailed history of my life, i grew up in the Catholic Church and served as an alter-boy from the time I was 7 years old until I was 11 years old. I currently attend LifeChurch, where I've been for the last 5 years. Not that any of that really matters, but I just want to clarify again that I don't have an anti-church or anti-religion agenda here.

I also have to point out a couple of things:

1. comparing the phrase ""a fun light hearted take on religion" to "I'm not a racist, but" is a bit ridiculous.

2. It's easy to take a bible verse out of context by simply reading one single verse and not understanding what it relates to or what scripture comes before or after it. For example, you quoted (Galatians 6:7) "God is not to be mocked". That single verse justifies your point, if that is the only verse you read and didn't read the rest of the verses after it which i've copied below:

(7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.)

Again, I'm replying to be defensive or combative on your comments. You are entitled to your beliefs, but remember they are you're beliefs and you don't speak for the majority of what Christians think. I consider myself a Christian and obviously you don't speak for my thoughts on this, and the large majority of people that I've spoken to that are members of the church have loved the concept. I beg to differ that if my business fails it wouldn't be because of the concept, it'll be because it was poorly ran and executed. I sincerely apologize if I wasted anyone else's time with this long post, lol.

[PhiAlpha]

Wish you all could put this concept in that abandoned church in Midtown! I realize that would make it more difficult to manage with your other two bars, but it would be cool!

[JRod1980]

Definitely the truest thing you said.

Also, Im not sure you speak for as many people as you think. I know plenty of Christians, Catholics especially, that would happily go here for an evening of fun and fellowship.

That's "Drink and Fellowship" don't change my tag line. Me and John (Ment Apparel) sent a long 10 minutes coming up with it. hahaha

[JRod1980]

Wasn’t Flashback initially going in on 23rd somewhere? The Rise, maybe? Obviously we’ll never know how that would have worked out, but man, adding a successful Flashback plus two other bars to what’s already happened in Uptown would have made that a really a great little stretch.

yes, it was HELL (pun intended). To put it nicely, things just didn't work out on 23rd and I'm glad they didn't. I can't imagine being anywhere besides Film Row now and growing with the district. We were the first bar in the district and hope to continue growing with Sanctuary, Wacky Wheelz and ABC123 Bar (Next Concept Bar Currently In Development). This district has so many abandoned buildings with so much potential.

We are also in contract negotiations to open up a 2nd FlashBack RetroPub in the Fort Worth market possibly towards the end of 2018.

[Pete]

^

One of the great outcomes of that Film Row location for FlashBack is that it was much bigger than the other spot; seemingly more than was needed.

But it's allowed them to do all types of things and especially on weekend nights, they need every bit of that space and more.

Plus, I've just grown to the love the place and the charm of that location has always been a big part of it.

[TheirTheir]

Incorporating "communion" into a shot/chaser would be awesome.

[stile99]

ABC123 Bar (Next Concept Bar Currently In Development). .

That theme is going to be teachers/education, with many throwbacks to Schoolhouse Rock. The menu will be called the curriculum, the signature drink will be the All-Nighter (some combination of energy drink and cocktail), and after you drink 100 of them (over a period of time, not in one night!) you get a 'diploma' on the wall.

And the bartenders will make more than Oklahoma teachers. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

[JRod1980]

That theme is going to be teachers/education, with many throwbacks to Schoolhouse Rock. The menu will be called the curriculum, the signature drink will be the All-Nighter (some combination of energy drink and cocktail), and after you drink 100 of them (over a period of time, not in one night!) you get a 'diploma' on the wall.

And the bartenders will make more than Oklahoma teachers. (Sorry, couldn't resist).

That's pretty funny, I actually thought about having more of a school decor at FlashBack since we have the lockers and looked at adding old school desk as tables.

[JRod1980]

Incorporating "communion" into a shot/chaser would be awesome.

Yes, there will be a shot called The Communion, as well as a 2 shot combo called Alpha & Omega. There will be drinks called Last Testament and Forbidden Fruit.

[bradh]

Not to get side tracked JRod, but what happened with Wichita? Not in the plans anymore?

[JRod1980]

Not to get side tracked JRod, but what happened with Wichita? Not in the plans anymore?

The owners of the building attempted to switch us to a different building than we had agreed to after we had an LOI in place and about to sign a contract. So we passed on the building they were trying to force us into, and they went and found someone local to open up an Arcade business in one of their other buildings. I'm not going to say its an arcade bar cause from what I've heard they don't plan on selling beer or alcohol to begin with, but might change it later on.

If you are familiar with anyone from Wichita, the guys name is Derek Sorrells. The place was suppose to open up this last weekend and its called The Arcade. They charge $8 per hour to play unlimited games or you can purchase a day pass.

[bradh]

Did I PM at one point and tell you my BIL is pretty big in real estate up there? If you're still interested in the market let me know and I'd be glad to help.

[JRod1980]

Did I PM at one point and tell you my BIL is pretty big in real estate up there? If you're still interested in the market let me know and I'd be glad to help.

I'm pretty sure you did. I'll let you know if we decide to revisit Wichita, but for now we are focused on opening the next 2 businesses here and then FlashBack in Fort Worth. But the plan is to open at least 3 more FlashBacks in the next 2 years.

[Plutonic Panda]

And they won't go.

It is a risk to build a business on something that offends a near majority of people, if not a majority of people. Politicians can survive that way, business' mostly can't. If it survives and thrives good for them, if it fails miserably then it does. That's the beauty of capitalism.

Or we can all go on insane rants like Panda.

But they’re fun

[stjohn]

^

One of the great outcomes of that Film Row location for FlashBack is that it was much bigger than the other spot; seemingly more than was needed.

But it's allowed them to do all types of things and especially on weekend nights, they need every bit of that space and more.

Plus, I've just grown to the love the place and the charm of that location has always been a big part of it.

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.

And I do recognize JRod/Flashback tried to go into Uptown, so nothing against them here at all. Just generally dreaming of bigger, more walkable neighborhoods. Put three more bars or restaurants on 23rd between Dewey and Robinson and that's a really impressive stretch. Instead, Film Row's gone from not much to one of the cooler little pockets in town in just a few years. Flashback is definitely well-run, and I think the Sanctuary concept will do just fine.

[JRod1980]

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.

And I do recognize JRod/Flashback tried to go into Uptown, so nothing against them here at all. Just generally dreaming of bigger, more walkable neighborhoods. Put three more bars or restaurants on 23rd between Dewey and Robinson and that's a really impressive stretch. Instead, Film Row's gone from not much to one of the cooler little pockets in town in just a few years. Flashback is definitely well-run, and I think the Sanctuary concept will do just fine.

I agree with you 100%!!! For some reason that seems to be very difficult to do in OKC. A lot has to do with the owners of the buildings and the price per square foot that they are requesting. A lot of owners see 1 business succeed then they think that their spot is worth $3 more than a year ago. If they took the approach of increasing it over a 5 year stretch or in the 2nd contract it would likely help out a lot of business owners trying to grow. Our Film Row lease was maybe $1000 more per month at the beginning, then it would have been at The Rise and we have double the amount of space. if that tells you how over-priced The Rise was. And correct me if I'm wrong but I think at least 2 different businesses have already closed and there's at least 1 space still vacant directly behind Drake on the 2nd floor. Believe me when I say I would be hating myself right now if everything would have worked out and we would have stayed in the space we had. I don't think we would have survived there more than a year or two.

The other issue is that a lot of owners still have negative cogitations about bars still. Many still seem to think that bars are dingy, run down looking establishments, because that's all they've really seen in OKC. And if you explain that it's not a typical bar then they think its more of a club, and then they really don't want it in their space, lol. Perhaps with more concept bars opening and surviving, it will help some change their minds on what a bar can be. But they have to survive and they have to be well run, opening up a bar only to change the name within a year or 2 doesn't help. I see it all the time in Bricktown, there's several buildings that are on their 4th & 5th name change in the last 7-8 years and it's the same owner, same concept, same everything. I've never really understood the purpose of it, especially if they bar/club appeared to be thriving.

[hoya]

Probably so, but people need to get over it. It's 2017. Not everything has to be sanitized to be palatable to the Baptists. If it offends people, they have the right to not go.

People are definitely blowing this out of proportion. They need to just quiet down and ignore things that they think are offensive.

In completely unrelated news, I'd like to announce I've decided to open my own bar, a lighthearted but respectful take on the Civil Rights Movement. I call it Malcolm's XXX (with the XXX on a jug of moonshine). You can park your car in our "Free at Last" Rosa Parking Lot, and enjoy fun themed drinks like the Manhattan Luther King (in a cocktail glass or in our custom "shot" glasses), or our delicious Uncle Tom Collins. Looking forward to seeing you all there.

[bchris02]

Sure, and I'm glad it's worked out. I love the space Flashback ended up in. Just a general wish that investment was consolidated into fewer but larger districts. Seems like a property owner or two puts money into an area, then everything near it becomes so expensive that the next round of would-be investors move to other "undiscovered" districts. Prices in that area then go up, and the next round of investment moves elsewhere. Rinse and repeat. The result being A TON of thriving two- or three-block "districts," which is great, but none of which individually are super impressive to someone coming from a peer city.

I agree with this completely. OKC has more developing urban districts than cities its size (or even larger) typically do yet they all remain underdeveloped, which can leave a bad impression to people coming from peer cities and is a likely contributor to the "boring" perception that OKC still carries. I would like to see more investment into fewer districts. I am also a bit skeptical about developments such as the Wheeler District and Strawberry Fields. I worry that OKC simply isn't large enough or growing fast enough to support them as envisioned and they will either fall significantly short or cannibalize existing districts.

[bchris02]

The other issue is that a lot of owners still have negative cogitations about bars still. Many still seem to think that bars are dingy, run down looking establishments, because that's all they've really seen in OKC. And if you explain that it's not a typical bar then they think its more of a club, and then they really don't want it in their space, lol. Perhaps with more concept bars opening and surviving, it will help some change their minds on what a bar can be. But they have to survive and they have to be well run, opening up a bar only to change the name within a year or 2 doesn't help. I see it all the time in Bricktown, there's several buildings that are on their 4th & 5th name change in the last 7-8 years and it's the same owner, same concept, same everything. I've never really understood the purpose of it, especially if they bar/club appeared to be thriving.

Great points here. I can see a lot of the older generation, especially in OKC, having this perception of a bar as something like a bar on NW 39th Expwy that I won't name. It's a real, genuine dive bar and not the kind of place hipsters hang out because they think dive bars are cool. It's the kind of place where you walk in and you can feel the sketchiness. The place smells of urine, BO, and stale cigarette smoke. It has been in the news a few times for violence even since I've been back here.

As for the Bricktown night clubs rebranding every couple of years, I believe that is pretty common in the club business. It is especially in a place where all the clubs are concentrated near each other and they are competing with each other. Sometimes rebranding at the right time can give them a leg up on their competition.

[dankrutka]

I agree with this completely. OKC has more developing urban districts than cities its size (or even larger) typically do yet they all remain underdeveloped, which can leave a bad impression to people coming from peer cities and is a likely contributor to the "boring" perception that OKC still carries. I would like to see more investment into fewer districts. I am also a bit skeptical about developments such as the Wheeler District and Strawberry Fields. I worry that OKC simply isn't large enough or growing fast enough to support them as envisioned and they will either fall significantly short or cannibalize existing districts.

Bricktown, the Plaza District, and Paseo are all well developed at this point. Could they better? Sure, but that’s the same for other cities. I was in the Plaza yesterday and it really is a mature district at this point with places like The Press popping up on side streets. Every restaurant and bar was absolutely slammed. I think out of towners would be theoriughky impressed with the district.

Midtown is really the only district that’s got a lot of holes, but the individual developments are really impressive.

[Plutonic Panda]

IMO, the only districts that don’t have much holes are Paseo and Plaza. But those are a stretch. Every district in OKC has a lot of holes, even the CBD.

That being said, I like our many districts and think that they will make OKC feel like a huge city when they’re filled up. There are new districts soon to become prominent such as the Stockyards and Linwood. Things can only get better for OKC.

[JRod1980]

IMO, the only districts that don’t have much holes are Paseo and Plaza. But those are a stretch. Every district in OKC has a lot of holes, even the CBD.

That being said, I like our many districts and think that they will make OKC feel like a huge city when they’re filled up. There are new districts soon to become prominent such as the Stockyards and Linwood. Things can only get better for OKC.

I have to ask, because I don't see it. Why do so many people think that Linwood is the next big district? The neighborhoods around it are mostly run down/drug houses, a majority of the building are falling apart or poorly taken care of and there's very little traffic that goes through there on a regular basis. I don't know, I think the area is years away from developing. I cut through there almost everyday when I'm heading to the bar and its just not impressive at all. I hope I'm proven wrong and in 5 years its developing and full of great restaurants/bars.

Another area I just don't see gaining much traction is Farmers Market. I love that area and considered looking for space there, but there doesn't seem to be much going on there at night besides Power House. Little over a year ago there were a couple of out of state developers that were looking at purchasing the land southeast of the Farmers Market that runs all the way to I-40, but they couldn't get the entire land acquired in one swoop so they backed out. At least that's what I heard from someone involved behind the scenes on the deal. Apparently that land is owned by the city as was as other private owners and it became a mess trying to get it all done. But if it would have gone through that plans they had were incredible, with mid rise housing, restaurants, bars, retail, etc... Oh the what if's of OKC. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the people who run/own a majority of the land here even care about the city moving forward and improving.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think it’s going to be awhile before it happens, but if OKC booms, naturally I see Linwood becoming a new established district. I completely forgot about The Farmers Market District. That area sure has been slow to take off.