Convention Center

[Stickman]

I don't care where they build it but they need to do their homework. If you want South of the arena; fine, but the first thing to do is find out exactly how much it will be to move the sub-station.

[hfry]

Exactly, go back to post 290...........says all you need to know.

Great post but just so everyone doesn't have to go back and find it like i did this is post 290. Like Pete said, they have known for 4 years this site was going to be expensive and foolishy went forward without a plan B.

Juel
10:38 a.m.

I am hearing the asking price of the proposed convention center site is cost prohibitive and alternatives are beginning to be considered. Any validity to that.
Steve Lackmeyer
10:39 a.m.

I've asked City Manager Jim Couch last week about whether other sites are getting second look. He denied that the city is doing anything other than proceeding with ttrying to buy he site chosen south of the Myriad Gardens and move forward with designs. But those rumors are out there.


Read more: http://newsok.com/unedited-transcrip...#ixzz24l5ItkZN

[okclee]

Lower Bricktown - Bass Pro land swap?

Okc could use one of the newer version Bass Pro anyway.

[Pete]

The reason they only wanted that site and went forward while simultaneously ignoring the obvious realities and not having a backup plan is because a few very powerful people wanted it that way.

And they assumed they could pull all kinds of strings behind the scenes to make it happen.

Cathy O'Connor is far too smart and experienced in these matters to not know better; t's pretty obvious she was not the one calling the shots.

[ProOKC]

REHCO Downtown Development paid $6.5 million to Fred Jones Companies for the property South of Myriad Gardens on January 1, 2009. How on Earth can they possibly claim that the property is worth $100 million? One comp that was cited is 123 S. Hudson. Rick Dunning paid $1,452,500 to Fred Jones Properties on October 10, 2001 and then sold it to Myriad Gardens Foundation on September 16, 2014 for $6,908,000. Myriad Gardens Foundation transferred it to Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust. It sure seems like they way overpaid for this property. Steve Lackmeyer says that the Hall Family are partners in REHCO Downtown Development. Is there any evidence of this. It reminds me of OKC selling the Santa Fe Station to the Brewer family for a pittance. Then OKC wants to buy it back and the Brewer family claims that it's worth a fortune.

[CS_Mike]

Since these events may have a signficant impact on Clayco's development plans, I wonder if it would be feasible for the city to partner with Clayco and Rainey Williams to merge the OG&E headquarters building, the convention center, and the convention center hotel into a singular development on the Stage Center land? Since Clayco was already seeking large amounts of TIF money to build, maybe they could benefit from scaling down their own plans and allowing the city to pay for all of the shared infrastructure in exchange for integrating a convention center and allowing Clayco to develop the adjoining convention center hotel? Just trying to think outside of the box here.

[shawnw]

ok folks, we've had a couple of days of shock and awe and a little bit of scortched earth thrown in with regard to the convention center - that I think it is time for a poll. I will create the poll based on the sites I've heard/read (and can remember).

Cox Convention Center site
C2S South (East actually)
Main Street
Bricktown North/Skirvin
E Bricktown
U-Haul
Lumberyard
Coop
Oklahoma Health Center/Oklahoma School of Science and Mathematics
Farmer's Market
repurpose AICCM
Fairgrounds
Suburban - near Yukon was suggested

hope that captures everything. Here is the poll: http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...best-site.html

You forgot "Cap I-235"

[shawnw]

Urbanized is going to have an aneurism.

I took a look around with Google Maps. There's a pretty large chunk of vacant land that's kinda near downtown. There's loads of room for the convention center. You don't connect to Bricktown at all. But it's big and it's probably cheap.

Attachment 10310

This is over by the Farmer's Market area. If you wanted a very large building with a lot of space, this could be a spot. You'd want to encourage as much development in this area as possible. I know things are really trashy in that area right now, but in 15 or 20 years this could be a great place. Development is just starting to pick up there, with stuff like Power House.

I almost suggested Farmer's Market, but it's probably too far from pretty much any ammenity at this time. True that might be quite different in 2020 with a fully built boulevard, and online 21C, and a developing Farmer's Market area due to these things, but would it be enough? I just don't think so quite yet. Now, if they'd bump it (CC) back and re-prioritize other projects? Maybe. But probably still not quite.

[Pete]

REHCO Downtown Development paid $6.5 million to Fred Jones Companies for the property South of Myriad Gardens on January 1, 2009. How on Earth can they possibly claim that the property is worth $100 million? One comp that was cited is 123 S. Hudson. Rick Dunning paid $1,452,500 to Fred Jones Properties on October 10, 2001 and then sold it to Myriad Gardens Foundation on September 16, 2014 for $6,908,000. Myriad Gardens Foundation transferred it to Oklahoma City Economic Development Trust. It sure seems like they way overpaid for this property. Steve Lackmeyer says that the Hall Family are partners in REHCO Downtown Development. Is there any evidence of this. It reminds me of OKC selling the Santa Fe Station to the Brewer family for a pittance. Then OKC wants to buy it back and the Brewer family claims that it's worth a fortune.

That $6.9 million circuitous purchase by the City was the infamous Vitagraph property and everyone knew at the time it would go a long way towards driving up property comps in the area, and specifically the land the cc was seeking because it was the closest recent sale.

To determine fair market value in eminent domain cases, the commissioners, judge and ultimately a jury merely conduct a study of recent sales and do some math.

The Vitagraph property sold for $168 per square foot of land, and that's exactly what REHCO was asking -- and for good, justifiable reasons. If it was my property, I'd do the exact same thing.

Also, the Preftakes purchases on the 499 Sheridan site were even higher, and there are several other recent sales that justify a very high price.

Everyone knew this going in when this site was selected. The Preftakes sales had already occurred along with several others.

[Anonymous.]

I took the final concept/design from the original location and dropped the buildings into the U-Haul site at the same resolution.

This would definitely fit with some redesign here and there, but the square footage is there to make it work, it just takes some redesigning. The reason the original CC block is so giant is because of all the outdoor landscaping that isn't necessary.




I would say sacrificing landscape for a better location is pretty good for me, and most likely cheaper - thus a more 'modern' CC.

[shawnw]

I like the UHaul site location wise, but there's no way on earth any convention center of any quality is worth demolishing the Iten building.

Also, I'm not sure where you'd stick the loading docks in that setup because the boulevard will be below grade right there and you wouldn't want that facing Reno or Oklahoma I wouldn't think...

[jn1780]

I like the UHaul site location wise, but there's no way on earth any convention center of any quality is worth demolishing the Iten building.

Also, I'm not sure where you'd stick the loading docks in that setup because the boulevard will be below grade right there and you wouldn't want that facing Reno or Oklahoma I wouldn't think...

Someone else may come along and demolish it anyway. That's if they can ever get the Uhaul owners to give it up at a good price. Hard enough for the state to get the ROW in front of the building for a connection to the boulevard.

Is there that many developers out there that even knows what is under the metal skin of the building?

I would like to see this building restored, but then again I would hate to see someone come along and demolished it and put up something that doesn't bring that much value to the city.

[Pete]

There are lots of issues / challenges but conceptually I love the Uhaul location.

[ProOKC]

Another comp would be Stage Center. 3.1681 acres for $4,275,000. $31/square foot. Buying that probably would have been too much of a "hot potato" for OKC to have done. It also seems "overreaching" that REHCO was including the square footage of streets which haven't been vacated yet in their $100 million asking price. I hope that OKC gets $168/square foot when they sell the block South of Stage Center to Clayco, but, I bet they won't. Or if and when the Exhibition Space in Cox Convention Center is taken down and they seek developers for that. Something is worth what someone will pay for it. IMHO, the buyer of 123 S. Hudson way overpaid. Of course, when one party wants to buy something and the other party doesn't really want to sell it, it strengthens the others party's negotiating position. I'll admit that the highest and best use for the land around Myriad Gardens is probably something other than a convention center. It is too bad that so much time and money was wasted on something which wasn't ever feasible. I wonder what OKC didn't want to come out in those depositions?

[Bullbear]

I like the idea of the Uhaul location as well. am trying to imagine if it were to be built across the boulevard right at the tracks and a bit East wouldn't be horrible. and the bulk of it be north of the boulevard but if it extended over the boulevard so docks could be against the track on the south side of the boulevard maybe.. don't everyone yell at me.. just thinking out loud.

[Rover]

What if we just demo'd the Cox arena and built the new CC in stages. Replace the arena with the new hall and leave the current Cox meeting areas. Then, when the new hall is complete, demo the old hall and use the south half or so to build a mixed use center where floor 1 is retail/restaurant that overlooks the park, with floors above for meeting rooms, etc,, hotel above that, and even possible residential above. Then, the north meeting rooms of the old Cox is demo'd and private development along that side.

Could it work? Doing it that way we wouldn't have to close out our current convention business.

[Pete]

In the cc study, they stated since the arena supports the entire structure, that it could not be redeveloped in phases.

[Pete]

Another comp would be Stage Center. 3.1681 acres for $4,275,000. $31/square foot. Buying that probably would have been too much of a "hot potato" for OKC to have done. It also seems "overreaching" that REHCO was including the square footage of streets which haven't been vacated yet in their $100 million asking price. I hope that OKC gets $168/square foot when they sell the block South of Stage Center to Clayco, but, I bet they won't. Or if and when the Exhibition Space in Cox Convention Center is taken down and they seek developers for that. Something is worth what someone will pay for it. IMHO, the buyer of 123 S. Hudson way overpaid. Of course, when one party wants to buy something and the other party doesn't really want to sell it, it strengthens the others party's negotiating position. I'll admit that the highest and best use for the land around Myriad Gardens is probably something other than a convention center. It is too bad that so much time and money was wasted on something which wasn't ever feasible. I wonder what OKC didn't want to come out in those depositions?

Remember that Stage Center wasn't sold to the highest bidder. The foundation that owned it chose what morphed into the Clayco group based on lots of factors, and those criteria were stated when they put the property on the market. They ended up paying well less per acre than the Preftakes/Devon/Hines block.

Also, Clayco will be paying LESS than what was paid for Stage Center for the south parcel, which is another big incentive being offered them that has flown under the radar.

I have a whole list of downtown comps that I maintain and there have been lots of very expensive $/SF numbers of late in addition to the ones we've already discussed.

[Laramie]

The conference hotel is the anchor for the convention center; they need to be apart of the same complex. If we go with the 700 plus room study recommendation; this should allow us room availability to host some good tier II type conventions which would require blocks of 300-400 rooms.

A note on the arena: the Chesapeake Energy Arena opened in 2002 upgraded to NBA standards in 2010. Our arena investment includes a total of $190 million invested ($89 million original construction & $101 million in upgrades).

Chesapeake Energy Arena Renovation | ICON Venue Group

HotRod's suggestion would be our target replacement of The Peake in 15-20 years, so you'd want a new arena with the MAPS V (2024 referendum) sometime around 2026-27 construction. The Chesapeake Energy Arena will be 26 years old when it's retired having served the NBA for approximately (Hornets & Thunder 20-23 years).

[hoya]

The reason NBA arenas have been replaced recently is that owners found you could make a lot more money with luxury suites. Most arenas couldn't be upgraded to hold those. When the new collective bargaining agreement started pushing players' salaries higher, owners without luxury suites started losing money.

The Chesapeake has luxury boxes. Until there's some new advance in NBA arena cash-making technology, I don't think we need to worry about upgrading it.

[Teo9969]

The UHaul site now dramatically intrigues me.

How realistic would the burial of the Boulevard from Robinson until an ascent beginning at Toby Keith's be?

[bchris02]

The reason NBA arenas have been replaced recently is that owners found you could make a lot more money with luxury suites. Most arenas couldn't be upgraded to hold those. When the new collective bargaining agreement started pushing players' salaries higher, owners without luxury suites started losing money.

The Chesapeake has luxury boxes. Until there's some new advance in NBA arena cash-making technology, I don't think we need to worry about upgrading it.

This.

I think a Peake upgrade is several decades away at least and is not something that should seriously be talked about at this time. Personally I think the city may get to the point (Metro population 1.8-2 million) where an NFL franchise and construction of a stadium might be viable before replacing the Peake will be necessary.

[Just the facts]

For those of you think the UHaul site is a desired location, I hope you understand what is underneath that metal skin and what OKC will lose in the process. The idea of putting Reno on a road-diet also goes out the window.

[GaryOKC6]

For those of you think the UHaul site is a desired location, I hope you understand what is underneath that metal skin and what OKC will lose in the process.

That would be the NBC building as in"National Biscuit Company. (NABISCO)

[bchris02]

For those of you think the UHaul site is a desired location, I hope you understand what is underneath that metal skin and what OKC will lose in the process.

I agree. I have little faith that the city will make any effort at all to preserve it if that location is chosen. For that reason, I hope it doesn't go there even though otherwise that location would be ideal.