Smoking Laws

[kevinpate]

since it's a workers' rights issue... nannies, housekeepers, landscapers and maintenance workers all have the right to prevent me from smoking in my own home? -M

shhhhhhhhh, they will hear you, and then it will be on.

[onthestrip]

since it's a workers' rights issue... nannies, housekeepers, landscapers and maintenance workers all have the right to prevent me from smoking in my own home? -M

Private space. Different from a restaurant or bar, which is a public space. Quite a difference and I don't think a nanny would have much of an argument.

[Martin]

Private space. Different from a restaurant or bar, which is a public space.

as to workers' rights: how is it different? why do these workers have any less of a right to have a healthy working environment than any other?

as to it being a 'private space': since your argument hinges on 'public' versus 'private' spaces, could you provide your definition of those terms? what makes a space 'public' or 'private?' -M

[RadicalModerate]

I'm thinkin' each and every one of those workers visiting your property should demand Certificates of Lead Abatement and Asbestos Absence. They could all be Certified by The Department of Labor, paid maybe $10 per Violation Report, and thereby not only increase Public Awareness of Bad Stuff, but reduce the Unemployment Rate exponentially!

Maybe there could even be some sort of Five Reports Equals Permanent Green Card . . . Citizenship for Ten promotion . . .

Oh, wait.
That's as stupid as believing in "second-hand smoke" damage.
Sorry.

[jn1780]

Agree completely, which is what makes arguing for the smoker so very, very frustrating for me! I *hate* it. But in the grand scheme of things, there are worse things we should criminalize.

Its a health argument. Same rational used to justify health inspectors, sprinkler systems, occupancy, making employees wash their hands, etc. The libertarian argument is that these things violates owner rights also.

I don't have a problem with a restaurant indoor smoking ban, but I do think outdoor patio smoking ban is dumb. Also, I think their should be an exception to bars since you have to be over 18 or 21 to enter and you should have the mental compacity to know when your in an unhealthy environment and your parents are not dragging you in.

[SoonerDave]

I think a primary cause of second-hand-smoking-related health issues is worrying too much about what causes second-hand-smoking-related health issues. I would suggest some sort of "mood-elevator"/"SomaBraveNewWorld-esque" prescription medication to counter these self-fullfilling psychosomatic ailments, but those lawyer vs. drug-company ads on TV regarding the side effects freak me out too much to do so.

[SoonerDave]

Its a health argument. Same rational used to justify health inspectors, sprinkler systems, occupancy, making employees wash their hands, etc. The libertarian argument is that these things owner violates rights also.

Ahh, yes, but here's the critical difference - smoking is an obvious activity, but the rest you cite for rationale are activities an owner will want to keep secret. Put a different way, if I know going in that someone in that restaurant is smoking, I'd by now have to be crazy not to be aware of all the second-hand smoke hysteria, and at that point *I* make the judgment about whether to go in. I don't get to make the same judgment about an unsanitary kitchen, a fire-prone building, a structurally unsound building, or whether the cook washes his hands after doing his thing in the bathroom. A nefarious owner will work to conceal those things.

I don't have a problem with a restaurant indoor smoking ban, but I do think outdoor patio smoking ban is dumb. Also, I think their should be an exception to bars since you have to be over 18 or 21 to enter and you should have the mental compacity to know when your in an unhealthy environment and your parents are not dragging you in.

Fair enough.

[Maynard]

[mjokc]

I should be able to go out in public areas and not have to breathe in cigarette smoke. I don't understand why smokers have a hard time understanding this.

[oneforone]

I vote we ban whining. If you whine anywhere, anyplace at anytime. The people around you have the right to depants, give a swirly or a purple nurple. Further offenses would require you walk down the street like this guy.


http://thehollywoodprojects.com/2010...ket-1987/pyle/

[Roadhawg]

I should be able to go out in public areas and not have to breathe in cigarette smoke. I don't understand why smokers have a hard time understanding this.

Aren't there smoke free places to eat or at least non smoking sections?

[Martin]

I should be able to go out in public areas and not have to breathe in cigarette smoke. I don't understand why smokers have a hard time understanding this.

let's say you and i are neighbors. let's say that i enjoy smoking on my back patio. let's say that you can smell the smoke when you're in your backyard... does your right to enjoy your property trump mine? -M

[betts]

let's say you and i are neighbors. let's say that i enjoy smoking on my back patio. let's say that you can smell the smoke when you're in your backyard... does your right to enjoy your property trump mine? -M

That's a good question. A similar one would be: My dogs love to chase each other around and bark. If they're doing it on my porch and you can hear it next door, does my right to enjoy their play trump you problem with the noise? It's true that smoke from a back patio likely doesn't impair air quality to the point that it is dangerous next door, even to an asthmatic or person with COPD, but it might impair their enjoyment of their back yard. Both are tricky questions without an easy answer. But, the answer for one applies to the other.

[OKCisOK4me]

I should be able to go out in public areas and not have to breathe in cigarette smoke. I don't understand why smokers have a hard time understanding this.

I should be able to go out in public areas and enjoy lighting up a smoke. I don't understand why non smokers have a hard time understanding this.

[onthestrip]

I should be able to go out in public areas and enjoy lighting up a smoke. I don't understand why non smokers have a hard time understanding this.

Oh I dont know, maybe because you taint and poison the air for others. Non smokers don't do this. Ridiculous to even try to compare the two.

[progressiveboy]

Oh I dont know, maybe because you taint and poison the air for others. Non smokers don't do this. Ridiculous to even try to compare the two.

Agree! The attitudes of some smokers can be very selfish and self centered. It is all about their rights and only their opinions matter and supersede everyone else. Very sad.

[progressiveboy]

I see advertisements in the Daily Oklahoma on the "clean outdoor initiatives" and many cities in our regions such as Austin, Dallas, Kansas City and even Chicago have strict ordinances that ban smoking in restaurants and bars on a complete basis. When I went to New York City recently, they also have a complete ban on smoking in bars, restaurants. Oklahoma"s overall health is not good at all. High obesity rates, high smoker rates, heart disease etc. you would think that would put the fear in people to want to make changes in their lives and stop abusing their bodies and hurting others with their second hand smoke. But again, like any addiction it can develop a stronghold on people and it becomes almost impossible to stop bad habits. Oklahoma should step up to the plate and quite damaging it's reputation with it's bad habits.

[betts]

I think a primary cause of second-hand-smoking-related health issues is worrying too much about what causes second-hand-smoking-related health issues. I would suggest some sort of "mood-elevator"/"SomaBraveNewWorld-esque" prescription medication to counter these self-fullfilling psychosomatic ailments, but those lawyer vs. drug-company ads on TV regarding the side effects freak me out too much to do so.

I'm not sure it would be very easy to say that to the families of people who have died of lung cancer from second hand smoke. Off hand, I know of two. I also take care of the young victims of second hand smoke on a daily basis, and you the taxpayer pay for it every time an asthmatic, whose family cares more for their cigarettes than for the health of their children, has to endure IVs, nights in the hospital, sometimes days on the ventilator and even death. The cost is high, psychically and physically, as well.

[OKCisOK4me]

Oh I dont know, maybe because you taint and poison the air for others. Non smokers don't do this. Ridiculous to even try to compare the two.

Sarcasm...I switched the non smoker with smoker... sorry.

[OKCisOK4me]

Agree! The attitudes of some smokers can be very selfish and self centered. It is all about their rights and only their opinions matter and supersede everyone else. Very sad.

Yes, because non smokers (which I have been before) are so much more important than people who smoke. Why the elitist attitude?

[wallbreaker]

http://www.smoke-freerestaurants.com...OK-OKCarea.htm

Looks like plenty of places for non-smokers to eat and drink without cigarettes. So it seems the goal isn't to provide non-smokers places to go (cause they already exist) but to remove ANY places for smokers to go. In this thread I see people calling for banning both restaurant/bar smoking, and outdoor public area smoking, which would seem to ban smoking all together.

Quit trying to claim it's about workers rights, or about being at a bar. You hate smoking, and you want it outlawed completed. Admit that is your goal, and own it. Trying for it piece by piece is just a tactict. The concept of trying to outlaw something piece by piece doesn't work, and will cause a backlash.

I'm a non-smoker, but I support the idea of someone opening up a cigar/martini lounge. Now, if the sole pupose of the business is for folks to smoke cigars, then why should folks not be allowed to smoke. What about smoke shops themselves? By the definition used in this thread, they're also public places, so I guess people should be abl to expect to go into a smoke shop and not be exposed to smoke? If you can ban in bars and restaurants, then really you can ban there.

So either outlaw smoking completely or don't. If it's legal, then these piecemeal restrictions are unfair. If it's so dangerous, then outlaw it. Oh, but then we wouldn't be able to get that 4% of state revenue (just $180 Million or so, nothing big). We'll just cut that from education.

[kevinpate]

So ... the new battle cry of let smokers be might become:

Smoking .... it's for the children.
(take our ciggie tax and sthu already)

As a former smoker, who smoked in two long stints amounting to over half my life, I can only shake my head and laugh at the silliness of how that came across to me.

I'm not one of those rabid anti-smoker former smokers by any means, but yeah, like it or not, the workers do have some rights. And non-smokers have some rights. And yes, smokers have some rights as well. But, the smoker rights do not include carte blanc to puff and exhale anywhere they want.

I do think there ought to be some establishments that are smoker friendly, and if they can staff them and draw enough customers to be profitable, all power to them. I bear such places no ill will, and night even pop in a time or so myself. Likewise when I was a smoker, including back when no smoking here was rare, I either dinna visit such places or I only rarely visited such places.

But in truth if I am sitting on a bench at the canal or somewhere, even though it is a public bench, I no more want a smoker to park it next to me than a smoker would want me to be lactose intolerant and wondering if maybe I shouldn't have devoured a half gallon of ice cream.

But hey, it is a public place and having a tootie fruity stinky patootie that dumps a stink on the smoker ain't against the law. Like getting hit by smoke, it's just bad manners, that's all.

[HewenttoJared]

so you're all about taking the rights away from people just because you don't like smoke?

no, it's because they don't like cancer...

[Questor]

I wonder if the smokers would be as forgiving if I lived next to them and decided to build a huge ham radio antenna on my property that blasted out, into all directions, massive amounts of high-GHz electromagnetic radiation.

[oneforone]

The whole no smoking initiative has gotten way out of hand. I can understand the movement to encourage people not to smoke however, the effects of second hand smoke are blown out of proportion. Most of the people in my family are smokers (most of them chain smokers) and my lungs are healthy as any person who has never been around it accept in the company of strangers. My only complaint is the smell on my clothes when I come home after a family function. The good news is most are quitting because of the disease factors not because of any ban. When you lose you three people to emphysema in the family it sends a strong message to quit. Like everything else in life you decide on your own when to stop doing certain things. Busy body lectures have no effect on you. You just roll your eyes and walk away or tune the person out and nod your head as if you agree with them.

At some point you have to respect the fact that other people enjoy the things you don't. I hate rap music but, I don't scream turn it down when my neighbors blare it at 3 in the afternoon. I hate the smell of some restaurants however, I don't start crusades to ban them.

We have to stop this banning this and banning that nonsense. People will do whatever they want to do. If we fully embrace the idea that second hand smoke is nuisance what's next? Banning BBQ grills because vegans and vegetarians don't like the smell of fresh meat cooking. Banning the consumption of meat because seeing other people consume it may be offensive to others.

Where does it stop? Sometimes you just have to follow the advice good parents used to tell their children. Address the issue or ignore it/ or improvise, adapt, overcome.

You always have the option of politely asking someone to step downwind from you, stepping downwind from the person or just moving to another area.

I think all the information/over inflated information about smoking causes people to think they are comfortable when they in reality they are not effected. Kind of like when you find out someone near you has head lice or your dog has fleas. You start itching thinking they are all over you.