Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
I will try to refrain a little. There are many on here who like to ask pertinent questions, pose legitimate concerns and propose intelligent solutions. However, the concerns expressed once or twice is fair, but the constant repetition gets a little old. The merits of this project need discussion and I understand everyone won't be enamored. However, there are certain posters who wouldn't like anything proposed unless we got condo's built for a million bucks per unit and then rented for $500 a month. I keep hearing about how we need low cost rentable apartments, but then this project is lambasted for costing too little per unit and fear of poor quality construction. For $100,000 per unit, these will not be top of the line buildings. But, it can get financed, and I will bet it will be in excess of 80% full within 9 months of opening. And a space that has been vacant for decades will be developed with high density residential fueling more retail, more restaurants, more commerce for the area. This will increase the value of other properties in the area and perhaps the tipping point will be reached. Then, we will get the kinds of developments we all ultimately want.
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
So, what are the reasons you all believe Henderson gets "gifts" from the city? What is the special pull he has? If the merits of the project weren't sufficient, why did he beat out the others? Is the system rigged? Why are those choosing making such bad choices?....ignorance, on the take, easily swayed? Would Wiggins have been better even though he couldn't accomplish his plan before? And, what leads anyone to believe Tannenbaum would build anything better? And, why was Ellard dismissed so easily...everyone hate her?
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
I'd like to know the answer. My best guess is that the people on the board were swayed by the pretty pictures. I'll agree that the Brooks/Henderson drawings were impressive. If I'd never looked at the Legacy I might have been impressed as well. I seriously doubt the system is rigged or anyone is on the take. I certainly liked Wiggins' pretty pictures better than Brooks/Henderson's and he had the advantage of never having built the Legacy. That would have been enough for me, although I would have given Marva Ellard's proposal some serious consideration as well. A developer who thinks stucco board with palm texturing and green awnings with white lettering are attractive has someone else drawing the pictures or he just doesn't care, and that's my major concern.
I agree: for $100,00 per unit our expectations shouldn't be too high. And, I also agree that if he were building $300,000 - 500,000/unit apartments there would be people complaining about the price of rentals. But, I've been in plenty of cities where their less expensive housing is far, far more up to date and attractive than the Legacy and I don't like the idea of rewarding people who haven't shown any evidence that they care about delivering the design they presented. I think that should be considered a slap in the face to the city and I'm mystified that such behavior is rewarded.
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rover
I will try to refrain a little. There are many on here who like to ask pertinent questions, pose legitimate concerns and propose intelligent solutions. However, the concerns expressed once or twice is fair, but the constant repetition gets a little old. The merits of this project need discussion and I understand everyone won't be enamored. However, there are certain posters who wouldn't like anything proposed unless we got condo's built for a million bucks per unit and then rented for $500 a month. I keep hearing about how we need low cost rentable apartments, but then this project is lambasted for costing too little per unit and fear of poor quality construction. For $100,000 per unit, these will not be top of the line buildings. But, it can get financed, and I will bet it will be in excess of 80% full within 9 months of opening. And a space that has been vacant for decades will be developed with high density residential fueling more retail, more restaurants, more commerce for the area. This will increase the value of other properties in the area and perhaps the tipping point will be reached. Then, we will get the kinds of developments we all ultimately want.
Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.
Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soonerguru
Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.
Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
I think the standard for quality housing in Midtown was set with The Sieber and continues with the Midtown Renaissance development(s). This is a cheap project (cheaper than the Legacy in current construction cost $'s) and is a step back for Midtown, the existing projects and surrounding neighborhood. So Sad .....Way to go Urban Renewal, shame on you....
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soonerguru
Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.
Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
First, the quality of the new apartments and condos in Chelsea, Soho, Villiage, etc., even into Tribecca isn't necessarily better and in many cases worse. I have been involved and seen during construction and I can attest to the materials being comparable. The biggest cost difference is the land itself and having to erect things in small spaces (between buildings). Costs go up in the area if you want soundproofing, AC, security, parking, etc. And, the older apartments & condos, while still expensive, would rate in amenities approximately what you would find in say the Village here. Small kitchens, not usually great finishes and materials, etc. We take for granted what we get for the money here.
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
city
I think the standard for quality housing in Midtown was set with The Sieber and continues with the Midtown Renaissance development(s). This is a cheap project (cheaper than the Legacy in current construction cost $'s) and is a step back for Midtown, the existing projects and surrounding neighborhood. So Sad .....Way to go Urban Renewal, shame on you....
What was the cost per unit on the Legacy (or per sq. ft.)? Also, understand there is still a lot of construction unemployment and savings in construction, particularly on larger projects which keep companies busy for a year or two. Some materials are cheaper than when the Legacy was built, too.
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soonerguru
Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.
Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
Just curious why you think this is suburban and why it is more suburban than the other proposals. I thought this fit the definition of urban...close to the sidewalk/street, fills the block, has 1st floor retail, hidden parking, 4-6 stories, rooftop amenities. What is suburban about it in particular? Just curious what your definition of urban is then.
Re: Mercy Site Developer Decision Today?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
soonerguru
Wow. You really misread the situation. There is a difference between $1 million-plus condos and cheap, ugly suburban units plopped into the middle of a vibrant and improving downtown.
Don't you have an apartment in the Chelsea area of NYC? The quality of materials in the buildings there are higher than just about anything in our entire city.
Is this considered downtown? Or is this mid-town? I agree this would be low rise for downtown, but seems appropriate for mid-town.