I would encourage people to look more toward Denver, less toward Dallas..
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I would encourage people to look more toward Denver, less toward Dallas..
Definately. City population wise, we're not far behind Denver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan
Denver has 620,000 residents in 155 sq miQuote:
Originally Posted by MDot
Probaly just DallasQuote:
Originally Posted by MDot
Thanks for the information, it's helpful, but I'm just talking population in general, as in; Oklahoma City is closing in -- if not already there -- on 600,000. Denver is at 620,000, most likely over that by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG918
It'll be awhile, without question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda
That's about where Charlotte is and I firmly believe OKC is about a decade behind Charlotte. If OKC starts attracting transplants in droves like Charlotte did in the 2000s, it could have 1.6 or so easily by 2020. If not, you should at least be looking at 1.4-1.5 given the economic opportunities there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dmoor82
I agree we won't catch up with Dallas anytime soon. I say that not to diminish optimism over how well we're doing, and the simple fact that if we start making better decisions we can become one of the smallest world-class cities in America, a la Portland or Denver. I just mean that Dallas won't be slowing down anytime soon, and they have firmly cast themselves as a world-class city with excellent civic amenities, excellent urban fabric, and an excellent economy - I think sometimes we simplify what Dallas is doing and ignore a lot of the really cool stuff like the Museum Tower, Victory, the streetcar and DART lined with TOD, the new Arts District, the West Village and other urban districts, and on and on.
We just need to keep focusing on excellent civic amenities, urban fabric, building an innovative economy, an incredible downtown, a clean and attractive city, quality inner city neighborhoods, and countless booming urban districts. If we do that, the success will continue to follow. We have whored out to the economic development fever pitch before, and they gave us failed urban renewal and failed incentive packages (most notably pre-MAPS). Just compare that failure to the success that following the quality of life agenda has always meant for OKC, from City Beautiful (albeit a delayed movement in OKC) when we built great buildings like the Civic Center, Skirvin, and First National - to the MAPS era which has ushered in an incredible amount of private investment that has accomplished the unthinkable - rebuilding our previously-wrecked city center.
This growth is exciting to have, and just as I want it to stay around, I want there to be proper credit and a proper understanding of it.
OKC's growth continues to not impress. Still lags the cities that reflect a greater than 1.6% year to year increase. OKC still finds itself unable to capitalize on all the "good" economic news it has received. OKC continues to suffer from negative perceptions in a couple of areas, just not viewed as a "chic" city and its constant reference to itself as a great place to raise a family which to most younger people translates to "boring".
Where are you getting this from ? Back up your statements ? Is this a perception issue from people who hardly leave their county ? I work with a man from Boston for the past 2 years, by way of Salt Lake and Minneapolis, and he said he's totally shocked in a good way about OKC, but then again he's an NBA basketball fan too.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
Out of the top 100 Metro areas in the USA, we rank at # 15............. explain this to me please ? That means out of the top 100, there are 84 others in the lessor category behind us.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
Actually, I finally disagree with you a bit. I was just having this discussion with my daughter last night. She lives in San Francisco but is home for a wedding. She was telling me that the majority of her friends now live here, and was telling me that she had read the article talking about OKC as the new "Austin". She said, "While that's a stretch and Oklahoma City isn't yet a cool choice, it's markedly less uncool than it was a decade ago."Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
When I was working at "A Better Block" last month, I talked to a lot of young people who had moved here from other places, and you could tell they were excited about what was happening in downtown. I met a couple of people who had bought land in SoSA and were building houses. I hear things my nieces and nephews in New York say. And I have to agree with my daughter. While it's not Washinton D.C., Atlanta or Dallas, Oklahoma City is taking steps away from uncool in the perception of people around the country. But, we also agreed that while MAPS has made a huge difference, having the Thunder here is probably what has tipped the scales. There's just a lot more excitement around having a professional team in town, especially a successful one.
Betts, you really hit on the areas to which I was referring. OKC is growing but has yet to fully capitalize on over 5-6 years or longer of great accolades some recently listed in Accla1m magizine. I belive this is primarily due to the perception that Oklahoma and by extension, OKC is not a "cool" place. I fully agree however, that OKC is becoming much cooler:). Opening of more upscale dining and entertainment options will help. Touting OKC as family friendly is attractive to someone maybe 35 and above with two kids a dog etc. the notional american family, but OKC needs greater options in Housing (townhouses, condos esp DT), entertainment and dining. (ALL of these areas are improving) but they not currenlty in sufficient mass to take advantage of the overall good ecomonic news. The other area in which I think OKC needs to grow is the ARTS and Music scenes ala Austin. Austin, New Orleans, Raleigh, NC, Charlotte are examples of cities whose message has gotten out and has resulted in an accompanied hyper growth spurt. In reality OKC is only marginally larger than Albuquerque, Omaha, Birmingham and many other small metros. I would like for OKC to be on a growth path more like Nashville, Austin, Raleigh, Indianapolis, then I can begin to crow a little.
If you look at the latest population estimates OKC went from the official census count in 2010 of 579999 to the 2011 estimates of 591967 for a gain of about 12,000. From your list of cities to emulate Nashville went from 601222 to 609644 for a gain of about 8,000 and Indianapolis went from 820445 to 827609 for a gain of about 7,000. Raleigh had figures comparable to OKC going from 403892 to 416468 for a gain of about 13,000. I know that those are not metro areas statistics but to say we are not on a similar growth path just isn't correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
You can start crowing now dcsooner.Quote:
Originally Posted by ljbab728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellaboo
Not so fast my friend. I compare Meto area population figures. City counts are almost meaningless. Miami City population is small but metro is 5+million. Nashville went from1.594 to 1.671 (+22K), Charlottte went from1.763 to 1.795 (+31.5K), Austin 1.728 to 1.783 (+55K), Indianapolis 1.76 to 1.778 (+17.7), Raleigh + Cary, , NC 1.137 to 1.163 (+26k). Those are real growth numbers to crow about and those cities have sustained that level of growth or better for a few years. Good try though. OKC will not experience hyper growth without significant diversification of its JOB base. Without natural draws, OKC has to grow through jobs. Yes OKC has a low unemployment rate, but, we have very short memories of how dependance on oil and gas can leave us short. Getting Boeing jobs is great, but, again reliance on Gov't( the boeing jobs support Tinker) is risky in the long term. One base closure (Tinker) would crush OKC economy. Look at the economies of those places I mentioned a little more diversified and less dependent on government. Looking for the new Gov'ner to bring jobs to Oklahoma and maybe by extension OKC. Why can't Oklahoma ever compete and win automobile manufacturing jobs like AL or SC ?
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
I don't understand people who can be pessimistic at great news. I myself was pleasantly surprised by the growth numbers.
The only way this city will ever amount to anything is if it's listed in one of Yahoo's or AOL's "10 Cities of the Future" or "12 Fastest Growing Cities". Until then, this city hasn't accomplished anything yet...
Spartan, my only real point is that I believe that the great QofL and economic news that OKC has received has not translated to the level of population growth that has been experienced by other "hot cities". I am trying to understand why that is so and maybe look for ways to change perceptions that may be keeping OKC from experiencing a growth spurt far exceeding what currently is occuring
With all due respect, I don't understand why you are so hung up on OKC reaching some pie-in-the-sky figure. OKC will probably never be some "hot" city i.e. Vegas or Phoenix of the 2000's. And considering how that ended that's probably not a bad thing.
Growth figures are but one metric of a community's health. Is the city producing good jobs for these newcomers? Is infrastructure keeping up?
Who cares if Charlotte is growing faster than us? They have an unemployment rate of 9.5% How is that a good thing? Wasn't there a poster on here recently who is trying to move OUT of Charlotte to OKC?
The US is growing at a rate between 0.7-0.8%/year. That means OKC is growing at more than double the national average. I fail to see how this is somehow a bad thing.
OKC metro gained 20,000- 1.258 to 1.278, about 1.6% growth. Better or close to those growth rates. Austin (3%) - fastest in US over 1 million - and Raleigh (2.3%) - 2nd fastest over million - are the only ones doing significantly better. We were the 5th fastest growing metro between 1 and 2 million. 3rd and 4th place were barely better than us (Charlotte, Ft Lauderdale)Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
Been there, done that, in case you forgot. Of course GM is no longer here but that had nothing to do with OKC. As witnessed in many cities, automobile manufacturing plants aren't always the most stable industries either.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsooner
I don't understand people who want explosive (hyper) growth. Growth just for growth's sake is never a good thing. I much prefer stable and sustainable growth.
I know you posted this almost a year ago, but my mother-in-law and I were talking about this the other day. In the last year traffic has increased substantially, with a few new choke points during rush hour. Her question: "Has our population increased a lot recently?" Of course, the answer is yes, and it's continuing to increase at a fairly good clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by OKCRT
While I think dcsooner is being pessimistic, I do agree with him -- as do most here -- that we need to diversify our economy from oil and gas. Yes, we should nurture those industries, but we need to move beyond that.
Thanks to the idiots in the legislature killing the EDGE funding, I don't expect much diversification in the near future, unfortunately.
On another note, I read an interesting piece in the Times yesterday about how Wall Street is moving a lot of jobs out of NYC to cities like Charlotte, Salt Lake, etc. Is our chamber even going after these middle-tier but good-paying financial services jobs? We're probably late to the table, but Roy Williams et. al. need to take note and get busy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerguru
sg, I don't have any inside information but I suspect the chamber is much more aware off any such opportunities than the general public might think and are being proactive when it's feasible that OKC might have a chance. Because we haven't gotten any of the kinds of jobs you're referring to doesn't mean that they are doing nothing. Some cities, like Charlotte, have a built-in advantage due to the existing banking industry there.
The chamber does not have unlimited resources and has to concentrate on things we can realistically attain. Remember when we made a huge and expensive effort to land the United Airlines maintenance facility that we never really had a chance for?