How do you feel about flag burning?

"People don't die for a flag. To think so is nothing short of reshaping past events (deaths of Americans) to accomodate your goal (ending flag burning). No one to my knowledge has ever died willingly to keep an American flag from burning."

You never fought in a war, and my guess is you never had a close relative fight in a war. Otherwise, you would have been taught that when a person fights for YOUR RIGHT OF FREEDOM, they are also fighting for that flag you choose to call "a piece of cloth."

My dad was one of 200 men who were the original Green Beret, at that time known as the Second Ranger Battalion. They climbed mountains in Normandy and risked their lives to fight for YOUR FREEDOM. Most died. Only one or two of those men live today... Among them, my dad. Just ask him to tell you about that "piece of cloth."

Comments declairing our flag as "just a piece of cloth," are insulting to me, and to this country.

So. Just go ahead and burn your "piece of cloth." And when you do, I hope it is on my property, in my presense.

A symbol (a flag) is the representation of an abstract concept. Typically, abstract concepts are more difficult to comprehend, so I'll give you a pass here, I guess what I'm saying is beyond your comprehension.

My freedom is not a flag. My freedom is the Constitution. No one ever died for a flag, they died for the right of a nation to exist. As for close relatives, friends and family being in the service, that has nothing to do with this debate, it's a red herring. I have plenty though, my grandfather was a full colonel, my father was a seargent in the army, one of my best childhood friends is over in Iraq, my father's best friend was a lietenant in the Green Berets in Vietnam, I don't think any of them would have been willing to die for a flag either.

A flag is a symbol -- a political symbol. We pledge alegiance to the flag just as Christians pray to a cross. In Christianity, we don't worship the cross, just as we don't pledge allegiance specifically to a flag -- it's what those symbols stand for. In one case, there's Jesus, in the other case, there's America.

And legally speaking, you're wrong.. Texas vs. Johnson. Feel free to look it up. No one can help it though if you can't tell the difference between abstract concepts and symbollism. They probably covered that in your doctoral program at UOPP.

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It is the law of the land that you can burn an American flag, and I will allow you that right as long as it is the law, but you must live with the consequences.

We understand that the flag is the symbol of America, if you burn it you are not burning just a piece of cloth, you are actually showing your total contempt for America. If you’re burning a piece of cloth in protest why waste the money for an American flag when a scrap piece will do? If it must be an American flag, then it isn’t just a piece of cloth but the symbol that you a showing total disrespect for. Since America is a nation of the people, by the people and for the people, it logically follows that this is a symbol representing me and you have just told me you have total contempt for me and wonder why I am upset with you. The words coming out of your mouth say that you have no quarrel with me yet your actions say that you have such a hatred and contempt for me that you must burn me in effigy. Now which should I believe, your words or your actions, since I wasn’t born yesterday I believe I shall consider your actions as indicators of your true opinion of me and I shall treat you accordingly.

Hopefully this will help you understand our opinion of the people who treat us in such a fashion.

"The two places really can't be compared, they're cut from entirely different types of cloth." (quote from a Bricktown thread)

Humm. Why would you call a city a "type of cloth," and argue our point on the flag? Seems like a double standard.

Are people really so stupid they can't tell the difference between descriptive and metaphorical language?

My answer to this question would probably be considered a personal attack.

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Do you know what a colloquial expression is?

Figure of speach?

At this point pal, you're just embarassing yourself.

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People burn the flag for various reasons. Many would do it because they disagree with the policies of the administration; many do it because they disagree with our country's policys towards various groups; and sure, many burn the flag simply because they hate America, but that is not always the case.

What it means to you is unimportant, you are not receiving the message that certain flag burners intended to send, and that's okay. Perhaps for that reason, it might be considered a poor choice of speach, but it's a symbollic one nonetheless. Our civil liberties, even the most disagreeable of them must be protected from incramentalism that would gradually erode, and over time eradicate them.

That flag which some people burn is the symbol of one of the few nations that actually protects its citizens' (and its non-citizens') rights to burn its sacred symbols. That is what America is all about.

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Amen to that.

Judging by your own words, you're just as irrational. You can argue for its legality all day long but, just because its technically legal doesn't mean its right.

Good point .

Snip a few of my comments, take them out of context, and expect me to think you're making some sort of valid point?

Okay...

It's not just "technically legal". There's a Supreme Court Case (albeit one that ended with a 5-4 decision) that says it's legal.

Just because I personally find an act to be in bad taste doesn't give me the right to force others to not offend me.

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I have never understood why there is so much heated talk about burning the US flag and never any talk about the practice of businesses such as car dealerships that line up dozens of flags along the street; turning the stars and stripes into little more than a pennant to attract attention and using any means to promote their businesses without regard to the ethics of their practices.

I have marched in my share of protests and been called plenty of names for simply practicing the patently patriotic act of decent. Following the heard mentality is not patriotism and condemning someone for using strong means to state their view by symbolically denouncing the practices and policies of government is not either. Decent is too often charterized as being a traitor to country or not supporting our troops in the field, when the point is that government is off the beam and involved in things that run contrary to the values and principals set out in our Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights.

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The Old Downtown Guy

It will take decades for Oklahoma City's
downtown core to regain its lost gritty,
dynamic urban character, but it's exciting
to observe and participate in the transformation.

"Dissention" is not the issue, it's the blatent lack of respect for what the flag stands for and for those that have died to ensure that flag still flies over this country. IMO, you might as well be pissing on the graves at Arlington. I do however, agree that the flags on the cars is also in bad taste. But it doesn't rise to the same level of disrespect in my eyes.

But, as vile a practice as it is, I have to agree that burning the flag is a form of free speech and is protected. Just don't be surprised that someone like me is behind you angrily exercising our free speech by condemning you while you do it.

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My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind
Albert Einstein

Although I'd never do it... fair enough.

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I think it's time for a veterans opinion, since some folks are using us to justify thier particular point. As a combat vet, I can honestly say that we don't usually fight for mom, apple pie or the flag. Simply put, we fight because we are told to, to survive and for the guy next to us in the foxhole. The flag really doesn't come into play when the bullets are flying.
IMHO, the best statement I ever heard on the subject was this; "As an American Soldier, I may not agree with your right to burn the flag, but I will defend to the death your right to do it."

Yup. While it doesn't please me to see somebody burning it, I'm certainly not offended by it. I'm happy they're allowed.

To me, preventing someone from their right to free expression is far more harmful to what that flag stands for than burning it ever will be.

Thousands of people have died for, not a piece of cloth, but what it represents. Please have a little respect!

Aye, there's the rub. What that "piece of cloth" represents is FREEDOM, including FREEDOM to burn the flag if they so wish as one of their Constitutional Rights of FREEDOM of EXPRESSION. Just because it is a right doesn't make it right. Patriotism goes both ways.

I guess irony is lost on most people. And I'm a member of the DAR, and the daughter and wife of military veterans.

I think flag burning is rude and distasteful... but making it illegal is silly and extreme. It is just a cloth and a design. Some people think it is sacrilege to burn a Gucci sweater... not everything can mean a lot to everyone and you cannot enforce patriotism.