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Old 01-19-2007, 09:29 PM
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Default Global Climate Change

I'm not sure why this is so controversial, especially with Oklahoma's senators.

First, it is undisputed scientifically recorded fact that global average temperatures are increasing and have been for a long time. Sometimes when I hear the talking heads on TV dispute this I just cringe. It's not up for debate, it is what it is. I'm guessing this is because people are forgetting that we are talking about the global "average" temperature of the planet. Some places may be staying the same, some are getting warmer, and some may even be getting cooler, but when you total all the temperatures up and average them, the planet's average temperature is increasing.

The issue is whether or not the global average temperature increase is being caused by human activity, and if this will be harmful to us. Let's talk about the second part of that sentence first.

An increase of a single degree sounds pretty insignificant, but with every degree a tremendous amount of new energy is being added to the atmosphere. If we increase the temperature just a few degrees we will start to see some pretty significant results around the world. For example Africa is seeing more and more droughts as is Asia. Europe could see more extreme weather in the summers and winters. And North America could see more extreme weather as well (e.g. stronger tornadoes, more common hurricanes, etc.). If May 3rd and Katrinas start becoming common-place in 20 years, then clearly I think the answer to this question is that yes global warming/climate change has negative consequences.

So what about the first part of the question... are humans causing at least part of this? This is really the only issue that is still open to debate. Almost all of the scientists who have published peer reviewed works are converging on the idea that human activity is indeed causing this. Most of these scientists are now pointing to our dependence on oil as a problem.

It's funny, scientists point to oil as the probable cause of the slow modification of our weather. Politicians point to foreign oil as basically the whole reason we are mixed up in the mess known as the Middle East. How much more incentive will be necessary for consumers to start asking for alternatives in great enough numbers for companies to actually start doing something about it?
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Old 01-19-2007, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

It's kinda funny. China actually has a more progressive environmental policy than the United States right now. For the nation that releases 25% of the world's pollution, you would think we would be in more of a leadership role in the global concern.
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Old 01-20-2007, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

I have done extensive research (20 to 30 minutes), but I think the global warming deal is overhyped...Sure there has been some warming over centuries, but haven't seen anything that alarms me...I think the earth just goes through long term climate shifts and possibly influenced slightly by humans

Katrina and May 3rd I think where just freak weather disturbances and have nothing to do with global warming...All global warming alarmists came out of the woodworks with the bad hurricane season in '05 and predicting another horrible season in '06....Didn't see much of those guys last year for some reason

Bet you money they pop right back up when another freak storm comes along
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Old 01-20-2007, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

We notice storms like Katrina and May 3 more because we inhabit larger parts of the land now. And if you build along the ocean, especially in the Gulf of Mexico, you're gonna get hit by a hurricane eventually.

I'm not saying global warming doesn't exist, because I very much believe it does. How much of an impact humans have on it, I don't know. The climate of the earth has changed many times since its beginning, and it will continue to do so, with or without us.
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Old 01-20-2007, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

I think the freak weather occurances just bring more attention to the issue. While I do not think Global Warming was a highly significant factor in disasters such as Katrina, I believe it is still occuring.

The impending water crisis in central Asia, the drying up of the Ogallala aquifer which affects much of the midwest, the ever increasing monsoons of South Asia, the more intense storms of Europe all suggest the Earth is changing.

While all of this is a natural occurance, it is naive to suggest that we as humans are not at least partially responsible for the increase. Yes, the temperatures are increasing to a degree, but it is irresponible to suggest that this is completely natural and we have not significantly contributed to the increase. Look at the graph that goes back 400,000 years: the degree of the increase should be enough to cause widespread concern.

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Old 01-21-2007, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Professor Stephen Hawking, the mathematician at Cambridge Univ. that has been compared to Albert Einstein and is perhaps the smartest guy alive today, released a press statement yesterday talking about how we are now at the dawn of our second nuclear age and also facing unprecedented climate change and that scientists have a responsibility to educate the public and world leaders that these threats are very real and that we can change things.

Also this week was a story run on the Oklahoman's editorial page, apparently concluding that climate change for the entire planet for the last several centuries was somehow a myth because one place on the globe, Oklahoma, had a week-long cold spell last week. Amazing.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

And a mathematician is an expert on nuclear matters and climatology — how, exactly?

Regarding that cute little graph: correlation does not prove causation. I could track gas prices and Paris Hilton sightings over the past ten years, and they'd match up rather nicely for most of the curve, but it doesn't prove a thing.
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Old 01-21-2007, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

How about the dwindling number of pirates and the increase of global warming?

WWFSMD?
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Although I agree regarding causation, the difference here is that most climatologists are converging on the idea that human activity is aiding the warming to some degree or causing it all together. There are a number of pieces of evidence pointing them in this direction. I don't remember them off-hand but can look them up later.

Mathematician doesn't quite do Stephen Hawking justice. He has done advanced work in cosmology, quantum mechanics, string theory, astronomy, etc. He is responsible for the modern understanding of black holes and is the person that "Hawking Radiation" is named for. Astronomy and cosmology often involve the study of other planets, including their weather patterns and climates.
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Old 01-23-2007, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

So did you all hear the one about the Global Warming Convention at Lawton's Cameron U that was canceled last week .... something about being iced in.
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Old 01-23-2007, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Quote:
something about being iced in
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Old 02-12-2007, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Climate experts are 90% certain that global warming is caused by human activity.
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts?


Still up in the air as to how much we affect it
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Old 02-14-2007, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by bandnerd View Post
How about the dwindling number of pirates and the increase of global warming?

WWFSMD?
hello fellow pastafarian
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenkane View Post
Climate experts are 90% certain that global warming is caused by human activity.
And 30 years ago they were 90% sure we were heading into another ice age. There's also emerging evidence that climatic changes are affected in large part by solar activity cycles. Either way, I'm not prepared to make drastic changes to our economy based on a hunch.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

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And 30 years ago they were 90% sure we were heading into another ice age. There's also emerging evidence that climatic changes are affected in large part by solar activity cycles. Either way, I'm not prepared to make drastic changes to our economy based on a hunch.
Thirty years ago scientists did not have the great deal of climatic knowledge that they possess today. The change in temperature that ignited the cooling concerns of the 70s is trivial compared to the changes we are currently seeing. Looking at the past 100,000 years it can clearly be seen that temperatures have never been as high as they are today. Solar activity is having a minimal affect. Nighttime temperatures are increasing over the globe, suggesting that global warming is most likely not caused by extra sunlight. Air over both cities and oceans is also warming. However, the warming air over the ocean can't be linked to land-based heat absorbers such as concrete. If solar activity were truly having a large effect, we would see an increased temperature in both the troposphere (lower atmospheric levels) and the stratosphere. As it stands now, the troposphere is warming while the stratosphere is actually cooling off. This demonstrates that global warming is most likely caused by greenhouse gases rather than solar activity.
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

It's hard for some people to accept facts.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

The temprature is no different than when I was a kid in the 60's. Global warming? A bunch of hooey.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
The temprature is no different than when I was a kid in the 60's. Global warming? A bunch of hooey.
Is that the facts or is that your great life experience and expertise speaking?
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Old 03-03-2007, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Great, now, we can add meteorologist to the list.

Quote:
Sure there has been some warming over centuries, but haven't seen anything that alarms me
Maybe not ... but tell it to the polar bears treading water with no ice shelves in sight - it's alarming to them when they drown. I know that doesn't affect us directly .. but important nonetheless, especially if there is a chance that through our actions we are causing it.

We do have a responsibility to learn and educate ourselves as much as possible.. and err on the side of caution. This is the planet we are leaving our children and their children... if there is even a question that we might be able to influence positive change, we should explore it.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Karried View Post
Great, now, we can add meteorologist to the list.



Maybe not ... but tell it to the polar bears treading water with no ice shelves in sight - it's alarming to them when they drown. I know that doesn't affect us directly .. but important nonetheless, especially if there is a chance that through our actions we are causing it.

We do have a responsibility to learn and educate ourselves as much as possible.. and err on the side of caution. This is the planet we are leaving our children and their children... if there is even a question that we might be able to influence positive change, we should explore it.
...And you lived where in the 60"s? And I lived where in the 60's?
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

...And you lived where in the 60"s? California.. why?

Quote:
And I lived where in the 60's?
Well considering that according to you, you're so ancient....my first guess would be a cave .. but I won't go there. What's your point?

Are you actually saying that in between sitting at the knees of every well known elder/mentor/politician absorbing valuable political, geological, sociological expertise you had time to actually track the weather with your handy dandy thermometer?
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karried View Post
...And you lived where in the 60"s? California.. why?



Well considering that according to you, you're so ancient....my first guess would be a cave .. but I won't go there. What's your point?

Are you actually saying that in between sitting at the knees of every well known elder/mentor/politician absorbing valuable political, geological, sociological expertise you had time to actually track the weather with your handy dandy thermometer?
The point is simple. You lived about 1500 miles or more away, so, you would have no way of knowing the temprature variations in Oklahoma then. So, you have no basis to claim the temprature is different now vs. then.

I forgot to add. My Quail Creek cave was mighty nice... And cool in the hot summer tempratures that equal those in the current decade.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Oh for God's sakes.

I was going to offer you a shovel but you're doing fine burying yourself without my help .. have a nice evening.
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Global Climate Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by mranderson View Post
The temprature is no different than when I was a kid in the 60's. Global warming? A bunch of hooey.
Your opinion does not change the fact that you are wrong.

Since the 1960s we are talking about warming of fractions of a degree to a degree or two. It is unlikely that the average human would be able to discern such changes without records-keeping and reviewing data. Besides, remember that we are talking about the global average temperature here, e.g. average the temperature of OKC, Moscow, Sydney, etc. With an average one city could even be getting colder while others get much warmer, and the average is still a slight increase.

The hard data is in, the global average climate is changing. No one disputes this, even Sen. Jim Inhofe admits/agrees that the Earth is warming. The only thing that people are disputing is what is causing the warming.
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