That's pretty good!
For a detailed explanation of how the Romney-Ryan tax plan is able to cut taxes by $5 trillion without raising taxes on the middle class or exploding the deficit.
For all the details on Mitt Romney's 5 trillion dollar tax plan visit ROMNEYTAXPLAN.COM
That's pretty good!
Obama should have used that in the debate
Romney's a thief, he's using Obama's tax plan!!
Actually, Obama's Tax Plan is "how much do you make, send it in", because you know the government can better control and spend your money then you can.
The only way the middle class is going to get more money is to restore graduated (progressive) taxes on the richest 2% of Americans. This is what America did in the 1920's through the 2000's when George W. Bush's administration pretty much made taxes on the richest Americans non-existent after lowering tax rates & maintaining their tax exemptions (including capital gains).
It is not class warfare to have the richest Americans pay more taxes than the rest of us, it is the way we restore our middle class. If our rich don't pay a fair share of the American tax base, we will never be able to have any money to invest back in America (we will have to keep shrinking the government until it doesn't exist), we won't have any money to pay for Medicare, Medicaid, or our national defense, and we won't have any money to pay towards the national debt. All we will have left is Social Security, because our FICA taxes are always greater than our Social Security payments to our retirees and disabled.
The reason we have to play Robin Hood is the top 2% of the richest Americans now own 50% of the nation's private wealth. (The bottom 50% of our population, including me as a retiree, split up only 1% of the national wealth.) When Republicans decry that half the nation doesn't pay federal income taxes, they ignore the fact that that half of the nation hold only 1% of the national wealth, so it is no big loss to the US Treasury.
Raising taxes on the top 2% of Americans is paramount to restoring America's greatness. There is no other way to restore our middle class in my opinion.
For this scenario I'll use me as one of the citizens -- an average or maybe even lower middle class regular Joe. I'm married with two kids. My spouse and I make $40K each and thanks to some minor investing, we were able to get $10K of other income (Capital Gains, rental, whatever). We shop at Crest or Walmart and sometimes use coupons and try to shop smart, but sometimes buy name brands instead of the store brands because we believe there's a difference in quality. Last year we spent $7,200 on groceries (and some eating out). We bought a car last year: a Ford Taurus -- it cost $25K.
My sister, Penny, is married to Igor. They both are just barely getting by and have no secondary education. She works for minimum wage at McDonalds ($15.6K / yr), Igor makes $15/hr with the state working on a road crew ($31.2K / yr). The have four children. When they go shopping they always use coupons and can barely afford anything other than the store brand. They eat out about once a month at Cici's. Their annual food bill is about $8K. By coincidence, they also were able to buy a car last year: a used Toyota Sienna for about $15K.
My brother, FiftyCent, has a college education and pulls in about $50K per year. He has no family members that are dependent on him. He eats out a lot, never uses coupons and buys what pleases him at Whole Foods without regard to the costs. His food bill last year was $5K. He also bought a car last year, a Chevy Silverado. It cost him about $40K.
My Uncle Dollar and Aunt Susan B. are getting by OK. Uncle Dollar still works, but Aunt Susan B doesn't. Their children are grown and have moved out of the house. Uncle Dollar rakes in about $200K per year. He also earned $50K from a stock sale that he a profit from last year. They eat out some and don't scrimp at Sprouts, Homeland, or the Mediterranean Deli. Last year they spent about 9 grand on food. Odd, but they also bought a new car last year: an Infiniti QX -- about $60K.
Here are my tax assumptions:
- 9-9-9 rate (stated above)
- 3% consumption tax
- $2.5K income deduction per household individual ('cause my and Penny's households are raising future taxpayers)
- No other deductions
Taxes would come out as:
Dubya's household: $6,300 income tax
- $900 other income tax (CG, etc.)
- $7,200 total income tax
- $966 consumption tax
Penny's household: $2,862 income tax
- no other income tax (CG, etc.)
- $2,862 total income tax
- $690 consumption tax
FiftyCent's household: $4,275 income tax
- no other income tax (CG, etc.)
- $4,275 total income tax
- $1,350 consumption tax
Dollar's household: $17.550 income tax
- $4,500 other income tax (CG, etc.)
- $22,050 total income tax
- $2,070 consumption tax
Without a graduated tax, Uncle Dollar paid more taxes than I did. How is that unfair?
Here's a further breakdown that shows how it's fair (IMO).
Actual Tax % incl CG % incl/cons Total Taxes paid (per Adult) (per family mbr)
Dubya 7.88% 8.00% 10.21% $8,166 $4,083 $2,042
Penny 6.12% 6.12% 7.59% $3,552 $1.776 $ 592
FiftyCent 8.55% 8.55% 11.25% $5,652 $5,625 $5,625
Dollar 8.78% 8.82% 12.06% $24,120 $12,060 $12,060
How is that unfair? How is that regressive?
If you change the exemption methods then:
Dubya Penny 50Cent Dollar
tax rate tax rate tax rate tax rate
No exemption -- straight 9% tax: $8,100 $4,212 $4,500 $22,500
Tax deduct instead of Income deduct: $ 0 0 % $ 0 0% $2,000 4 % $13,000 6.5%
50-50 split tax-income deduct: $1,750 2.2% $ 0 0% $3,138 6.3% $15,275 7.6%
Smaller ($1K) income deduct: $6,840 8.6% $3,672 7.9% $4,410 8.8% $17,820 8.9%
Smaller ($1K) 50-50 split deduct: $5,020 6.3% $ 942 2% $3,955 7.9% $16,910 8.5%
Only kids exempt (50-50 split): $4,475 5.6% $ 0 0% $4,500 9 % $18,000 9 %
Consumption Tax Only (but 10%): $3,220 $2,300 $4,500 $ 6,900
shown as a percent of income: 4 % 4.9% 9 % 3.5%
There's lots of ways to tinker with it without creating a convoluted tax code, and you can see that Uncle Dollar paid more taxes than the rest in every situation. Further, with exception to the situation where there was no income tax but only a consumption tax, rich Uncle Dollar paid a higher rate (except in the situation where, including income tax, the exemption only applied to children, and then, his household paid the same rate as FiftyCent's).
Obviously, neither candidate has this in mind, so the point is moot with regard to the election, but I disagree that a progressive or graduated income is more fair than a flat tax as displayed above.
In case those tables didn't come out as planned, here's a picture of the data in a spreadsheet (I hope).
Seriously, the "poor, pitiful me" act that the wealthy have adopted is disgusting. I would love for my biggest problem in life to be that I'm so rich that Obama wants to tax me more. wah
Not even Romney knows what he's going to do until his advisors meet with congressional leaders and they discuss what they can agree upon. And there's no guarantee that they can agree on enough to pass a budget.
Remember - congress hasn't passed a budget in three years, despite being required by law to do so.
Even if current tax rates were doubled, we all would continue to work hard to make more, especially the rich, ho can make exponentially more than the middle class.
People like you need to wake up, it is simple math. Increasing taxes and cutting spending both is the only solution to reduced deficits and debt.
Well if the MAN takes away my special dividend rate of 15% in favor of taxing it at the ordinary income tax rate them I'm gonna go all John Galt on their azzes. I worked really hard to come out of the right womb.
To Dubya61: Consumption taxes are the biggest way to screw the middle class. VAT is what is ruining Europe. It robs the poor & middle class and the rich don't care.
Unfettered immigration is the biggest enemy of the middle class....
BTW -- VAT (alone) isn't what's ruining Europe. If Germany were solo outside of the EuroZone (and they DO have a VAT tax), would they be in trouble? No.
Render unto Caesar. It's in the bible!
But who really knows what that meant?
Did David Stockman, who finally admitted
That "trickle-down" was so ill-fitted?
Did Herman Cain, with his pizza brain
think 9-9-9 puts us on the gravy train?
Did Steven Forbes, a flat-tax robotic
think removing loopholes is more exotic?
We must protect the upper class
For if soaked too much, won't bust their ass.
They'll cry "Poor me, less polo ponies,
Why can't I keep all my monies?
I've worked so hard, I rarely sat
But then you said "You didn't build that!"
You're squeezing the strive right out of me
By asking for a 2 % more fee.
I'm thinking now you should tax the others
That "Work for Food" guy and all his brothers
They've been riding free on my back too long
Jab them, pinch them, that's not so wrong
Just don't ask me to throw in one cent more
Or I'll walk away, I'll close my store.
That was incredibly RadMod'ish! Are you trying to start a rhyme battle with him!?
I was rap battling when Rad Mod was picking up flower children in his cross country Mack truck.
So, are we looking for the Inaugural OKCTalk Poetry Slam?
I really believe that we need to initiate a national sales tax. I had this to say about it in the recent immigration thread.
Add to it that a national sales tax would capture revenue off of what some estimate to be a $2 Trillion source of taxation.
In fairness, there are some detractors. Stan says that it would force a lot of purchase to take place overseas that would have otherwise taken place in-country.
I have lived in Naples, Italy, where there is a HUGE shadow economy, and the governments suffer for it greatly. If we fail to get illegal immigrants (and others) out of the shadow economy, the federal and state governments need to take a hard look at a consumption tax.
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