SPLCenter.org: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

Im curious to know what some of the participants of this boards thoughts are on this article. I know its very long, but with all the seeming anger some people have at the direction this country appears to be going in I would hope that we could keep the exaggerations and hyperbole in check and consider the potential outcome of promoting some of the more outlandish claims can have on some of the more "unstable" citizens amongst us. From my perspective, the propaganda machine of fear is ratcheting up.

The SPLC seems to be fairly equal opportunity insofar as its 'naming names.'

While there's been an uptick in militia activity, there are also a few jihadist compounds in operation and other various and sundry _____-supremacist movements doing pretty well.

That said, it is questionable how some groups which espouse non-violence and are non-racial, such as several groups which patrol the border on a volunteer basis end up on the SPLC's list.

Your point is well taken. Although not the norm, perhaps it has something to do with cases like this?:

Ranch Rescue

On March 18, 2003, a group of illegal immigrants from El Salvador were traveling on foot through a Texas ranch owned by Joseph Sutton when they were accosted by a group of vigilantes known as Ranch Rescue, who had been recruited by Sutton to patrol the U.S.-Mexico border region nearby. The immigrants were captured and held at gunpoint by their assailants, during which one Salvadoran was struck on the back of the head with a handgun, and a rottweiler was allowed to attack him. The Salvadorans were threatened with death and otherwise terrorized before being released.

In 2003, SPLC, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and local attorneys filed a civil suit, Leiva v. Ranch Rescue, in Jim Hogg County, Texas against Ranch Rescue and several of its associates, seeking damages for assault and illegal detention. In April 2005, SPLC obtained judgments totaling $1 million against Casey James Nethercott and Torre John Foote, Ranch Rescue's leader. Those awards came six months after a $350,000 judgment in the same case and coincided with a $100,000 out-of-court settlement with Sutton. Nethercott’s 70 acre Arizona property, which was Ranch Rescue's headquarters, was seized to pay the judgment. Nethercott is currently serving a five-year sentence for being a felon in possession of a firearm. SPLC staff worked closely with Texas prosecutors to obtain that conviction.

Personally, I'd rather live on a block with militia thinking neighbors than not. They won't bother me but they sure as heck will look out for my house, my car and me.

I think this is what one might refer to as defining the rule by the exception. While there are thousands of people who volunteer their time defending our borders from illegal immigrants, drug smugglers, etc., there are only a smattering of cases where said individuals acted wrongly.

In this case, the group hired by Nethercott would probably be more rightly referred to as a privately paid security force rather than anything else.

ECO, considering that the crux of the report is dealing with extremist in the militia movement and examples of the climate being ripe for these extremists to take advantage of this climate to promote an unreasonable amount of anger and resentment towards the fed gov with the desire for a violent provocation...i cannot concur with your statement.

Southern Poverty Law Center? Please. I think this organization has been exposed for who they are numerous times. A 'hate group' is defined by the SPLC as anyone not as far to the left as them. Since they keep going further left, then by definition, hate is expanding.

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Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

> a privately paid security force

or more concisely - armed thugs

I don't keep an eagle eye on the liberal groups, so do tell how the Southern Poverty Law Center has been discredited for who they are or for what they do.

Tomatoe tomawto.

Kerry, did you read the report? Or are you disparaging the messenger to spite the message?
Furthermore, Im interested in your answer to Buntys question as the only legitimate criticism of the SPLC Im aware of is in regards to their fund raising habits.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson

"...I hope therefore a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the federal government..."
-Thomas Jefferson

"I have a right to nothing which another has a right to take away."
-Thomas Jefferson

I'm more-less in agreement with Luke. If someone wants to form a militia in order to defend my civil liberties, power to 'em.

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I love when people take quotes from famous dead guys and use them to bolster their arguments, but disregard their other writings that they disagree with. Im quite sure that I can find some Jefferson quotes that you would consider quite controversial. Furthermore, your first quote is apocryphal and cant be traced to Jefferson. I call it Kern-itis.

Famous dead guys?

So, you can find quotes from him that goes against what he said about guns and government?

I dont know, but that wasnt the point I was making. I find it curious that people can haul out a quote from a founding father (famous dead guy) and say "See! If Jefferson (or Washington, Madison, Adams Franklin...) said it, then it MUST be true. And it proves that I am right regarding *insert issue here*."

And yet when I haul out a quote like:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

...most Americans are like "...well, I cant get down with that."

Back on topic, the article is discussing the proliferation of "extremist" militias and their ilk...militias dont concern me personally, militias with a political agenda however, do.

First, just because someone says something I agree with on one issue doesn't mean I have to agree with them on EVERY issue.

Second, I, like most liberals, prefer to keep religion out of government.

Third, if we go off of what "most Americans are down with" then abortion would be outlawed.

Finally, a proliferation of militias, in my opinion, shouldn't be attributed to a changing population. On the contrary, a threatened population will respond to a changing government.

"First, just because someone says something I agree with on one issue doesn't mean I have to agree with them on EVERY issue."

that is reasonable, but when it benefits their argument, *insert famous dead guy here* was a sage of wisdom, when it benefits their argument.

"Third, if we go off of what "most Americans are down with" then abortion would be outlawed."

I prescribe to the Godwins Law of Abortion. Please dont let another thread get hijacked by the topic.

"Finally, a proliferation of militias, in my opinion, shouldn't be attributed to a changing population. On the contrary, a threatened population will respond to a changing government."

Explain this, please.

Ranch Rescue=KKK or an offshoot thereof.

Obviously none of them are very clever or they would be the Ranch Rescue Rangers. Then they could have kept their accutrements with the old logo and with just a little curved line across the Ks and they would have Rs and KKK becomes RRR. Dummy schmucks.

I think there is enough hysteria on both ends of the political spectrum to go around. No one on the right would feel like they have to form militia's if the federal government didn't do things that makes them fear their way of life is in danger. When the government tries to nationalize 20% of our GDP with a health plan that is so full of ambiguity and questions that NO ONE really understands what it will do, how much it will cost, how it will effect not only our health care but the entire economy, then people start to fear this is a power grab.

In some defense of actions taken by this rancher as well as similar actions in other border areas, if you have seen documentaries and news reports on how the flood of illegals that routinely cross these ranches, you would be appalled. They are literally turning these ranches, some of which were homesteaded 200 years ago, into garbage dumps. The ranchers go out to tend their herds and find dead cattle that were shot and butchered on the spot by illegals for their dinner. They find heaps of trash at places where clothes are changed and meals eaten.

Ranchers who live in such isolated places, 20-30 miles from the next ranch or town such as the rancher in this story have awoken to see people looking in their windows or opened their barn doors to find 50 illegals inside. This goes on day after day, month after month and year after year yet the federal government does little to stop the flow. After a while, with their family heritage, livelihoods and their lives in jeopardy, its understandable some take matters into their own hands and things get out of control.

Live in their shoes for a while before you start calling them dummy schmucks - they live quite different lives than any of us.

Just go to muckety.com, put in Southern Poverty Law Center and start following the links. You would have to be stupid to think this is just a group out there collecting data and presenting their finding without pushing an agenda. You aren't awarded 'credibility' by simply showing up to the debate; you have to earn it. SPLC is part of the left-wing liberal agenda machine and they are tasked with shutting down libertarian and conservative groups by charging racism and hate and every opportunity.

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Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

Im sorry Kerry but I may need a little help here. I followed your instructions and searched SPLC at muckety.com and perhaps i need another cup of coffee or its staring me right in the face, but im not seeing a whole lot other than a relationship map and a few articles related to Lou Dobbs. Could you possibly link me to a few? Thanks.

Southern Poverty group is a sham.... I can't believe they're still making the news.