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  1. #26
    USG '60's Avatar
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I think there is enough hysteria on both ends of the political spectrum to go around. No one on the right would feel like they have to form militia's if the federal government didn't do things that makes them fear their way of life is in danger. When the government tries to nationalize 20% of our GDP with a health plan that is so full of ambiguity and questions that NO ONE really understands what it will do, how much it will cost, how it will effect not only our health care but the entire economy, then people start to fear this is a power grab.

    In some defense of actions taken by this rancher as well as similar actions in other border areas, if you have seen documentaries and news reports on how the flood of illegals that routinely cross these ranches, you would be appalled. They are literally turning these ranches, some of which were homesteaded 200 years ago, into garbage dumps. The ranchers go out to tend their herds and find dead cattle that were shot and butchered on the spot by illegals for their dinner. They find heaps of trash at places where clothes are changed and meals eaten.

    Ranchers who live in such isolated places, 20-30 miles from the next ranch or town such as the rancher in this story have awoken to see people looking in their windows or opened their barn doors to find 50 illegals inside. This goes on day after day, month after month and year after year yet the federal government does little to stop the flow. After a while, with their family heritage, livelihoods and their lives in jeopardy, its understandable some take matters into their own hands and things get out of control.

    Live in their shoes for a while before you start calling them dummy schmucks - they live quite different lives than any of us.
    Jeez, I didn't expect this from my obviously silly post. I doubt nothing of what you say here.

  2. #27
    mugofbeer is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Nothing surpises me anymore about what politicians say anymore. There is Karl Rove outing CIA agents on the right. Then you have, I think it was Hillary Clinton, warning everyone the State Department was concerned returning military personnel from Iraq and Afghanistan were joining militia's I felt like they had just about hit rock bottom. Now they are trying to insinuate the elderly and disabled people protesting the health care reforms are in the same "militia" catagory and collecting email addresses of anyone sending anti-reform emails. They just keep going lower.

    I used to work with a woman who was a DEA agent out of Eagle Pass, TX and she tells some incredible stories of things that would absolutely shock you that have happened that never make the news. She got out the moment she could because of the risk to her own life and the risk of being jailed if the slightest thing went wrong. I don't blame ranchers in those areas for getting their own security at all but I don't condone beatings and kidnapping, either.

  3. #28
    Kerry is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    There is Karl Rove outing CIA agents on the right.
    Richard Armitage outed Valery Plame.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    Richard Armitage outed Valery Plame.
    ...and Karl Rove confirmed it.

    No help with the muckety.com site Kerry?

  5. #30
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by narrowexpanded View Post
    Im sorry Kerry but I may need a little help here. I followed your instructions and searched SPLC at muckety.com and perhaps i need another cup of coffee or its staring me right in the face, but im not seeing a whole lot other than a relationship map and a few articles related to Lou Dobbs. Could you possibly link me to a few? Thanks.
    I can help you better than Kerry wants to by providing this link about SPLC:

    Is the Southern Poverty Law Center a left wing rabble rousing group, or? - Yahoo! Answers

  6. #31
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    Just go to muckety.com, put in Southern Poverty Law Center and start following the links. You would have to be stupid to think this is just a group out there collecting data and presenting their finding without pushing an agenda. You aren't awarded 'credibility' by simply showing up to the debate; you have to earn it. SPLC is part of the left-wing liberal agenda machine and they are tasked with shutting down libertarian and conservative groups by charging racism and hate and every opportunity.
    And you don't support right wing propaganda groups that want to shut down liberal groups with an agenda to expouse, either, huh?

  7. #32
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by East Coast Okie View Post
    Personally, I'd rather live on a block with militia thinking neighbors than not. They won't bother me but they sure as heck will look out for my house, my car and me.
    Hmm. I don't know ECO. I don't really think of that crowd as being a beacon of diversity. I'm thinking, "Nice to meet you, I'm an east coast DC lawyer" wouldn't go over so well here.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by dismayed View Post
    Hmm. I don't know ECO. I don't really think of that crowd as being a beacon of diversity. I'm thinking, "Nice to meet you, I'm an east coast DC lawyer" wouldn't go over so well here.
    You have been watching too many movies dismayed. Anyone who wishes to protect freedom, liberty, and capitalism would be welcome, regardless of occupation, race, or gender.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Nothing surpises me anymore about what politicians say anymore. There is Karl Rove outing CIA agents on the right. Then you have, I think it was Hillary Clinton, warning everyone the State Department was concerned returning military personnel from Iraq and Afghanistan were joining militia's I felt like they had just about hit rock bottom. Now they are trying to insinuate the elderly and disabled people protesting the health care reforms are in the same "militia" catagory and collecting email addresses of anyone sending anti-reform emails. They just keep going lower.

    I used to work with a woman who was a DEA agent out of Eagle Pass, TX and she tells some incredible stories of things that would absolutely shock you that have happened that never make the news. She got out the moment she could because of the risk to her own life and the risk of being jailed if the slightest thing went wrong. I don't blame ranchers in those areas for getting their own security at all but I don't condone beatings and kidnapping, either.
    No, but it should be handled by local law enforcement, not vigilantes.

    A few years ago when I was posting on the Amarillo web site a Klansman came on the site, in conjunction with a protest they scheduled in Amarillo... and then he stayed for several months.

    His bs was all about how Klan's membership growing to counter the immigration problems. He even bragged about the many instances where they rousted out illegals and punished the ones who had got out of hand.

  10. #35
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  11. #36
    mugofbeer is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Silliman View Post
    No, but it should be handled by local law enforcement, not vigilantes.

    A few years ago when I was posting on the Amarillo web site a Klansman came on the site, in conjunction with a protest they scheduled in Amarillo... and then he stayed for several months.

    His bs was all about how Klan's membership growing to counter the immigration problems. He even bragged about the many instances where they rousted out illegals and punished the ones who had got out of hand.
    I don't doubt loons like the Klan will latch onto the illegal immigration issue to push their agenda. Loons on the right or loons on the left will always use just a touch of truth to push a larger "full-of-crap" campaign. As far as this guy saying he and his Klan buddies went there to roust illegals, I am not sure I believe him.

    The point I was making is that there are ranchers who have had land in their families for over 200 years who are turning to private security because THERE IS NO LOCAL LAW enforcement who can help them. Look on a map of the area between Laredo and El Paso. There is some really isolated, wilderness land there. The ranchers can't get help from local law enforcement and they can't get help from ICE because its so isolated there so they hire people.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    I don't doubt loons like the Klan will latch onto the illegal immigration issue to push their agenda. Loons on the right or loons on the left will always use just a touch of truth to push a larger "full-of-crap" campaign. As far as this guy saying he and his Klan buddies went there to roust illegals, I am not sure I believe him.

    The point I was making is that there are ranchers who have had land in their families for over 200 years who are turning to private security because THERE IS NO LOCAL LAW enforcement who can help them. Look on a map of the area between Laredo and El Paso. There is some really isolated, wilderness land there. The ranchers can't get help from local law enforcement and they can't get help from ICE because its so isolated there so they hire people.
    You know what it is? Absolutely "No Country for Old Men"

    The Klansman was on the Amarillo website for two months. Every time he trotted out a theory or a "truth", he was bashed by people who had done their homework. It was a fascinating exchange

    But he kept going over and over to the immigrants are evil mantra with the idea Jews are financing their arrival, yada, yada. He said the klans in Texas are being hired to scare these varmints back across the border.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Silliman View Post
    But he kept going over and over to the immigrants are evil mantra with the idea Jews are financing their arrival, yada, yada. He said the klans in Texas are being hired to scare these varmints back across the border.
    ..and we know he was telling the 'truth' by all of the illegals fleeing Texas being chased by hooded Klansmen. Sometime you have to be a little descriminating in what you believe on the internet.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    C'mon Fire,

    People are showing up at Town Hall meetings with AKs. One rally had two people when the president spoke. What happens at the next rally when ten show with automatics which would be more than security could defend against?

    Is this the America you want?

    There's no way to know who's a nut and who's not.

    Under the assumption that the ATF violated the rights of David Korash's followers in Waco and could potentally violate his, Tim McVeigh had the right
    of first strike.

    Is that the America you want?

    Tell me, who is more Hitler, Morris Dees or Lou Dobbs?
    Morris Dees, who watches hate groups and warns against violations of oppressed minorities... or Lou Dobbs who, with his brilliant oratory, tells us over and over all our problems can be blamed on Mexicans.

    Which one is likely to incite the crazies to roust out and kill illegals?

    Too many Mexicans! All our problems could be solved if we got rid of the Mexicans.

    Quien es mas Hitler?

  15. #40
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    ..and we know he was telling the 'truth' by all of the illegals fleeing Texas being chased by hooded Klansmen. Sometime you have to be a little descriminating in what you believe on the internet.
    I didn't say all. Just that the guy claims the Klan went into action a couple of times.

    The truth? Maybe not. But I know the klan still exists and recently, their numbers have grown.This guy was from around Abilene and they did have a big anti-Mexican rally in Amarillo.

    I wish I could pull up some of the threads off the Amarillo Globe site from a couple of years ago. I'd lay them in here.

  16. #41
    Kerry is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Silliman View Post
    C'mon Fire,

    People are showing up at Town Hall meetings with AKs. One rally had two people when the president spoke. What happens at the next rally when ten show with automatics which would be more than security could defend against?

    Is this the America you want?
    A government afraid of the people is exactly the type of government I want. If Obama doesn't like it he can quit and go back to community organizing or he can stop pushing an agenda most Americans don't want. The government exist for the benefit of the governed, not the other way around.

    Below might just be words to you but I take them seriously - very seriously.

    ...certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Just what about the pursuit of happiness? Shouldn't people want the benefit of government to come in to help them when the private sector refuses to make them happy with their health problems, such as by offering a government option to the uninsurable? You know what, the private sector can also be destructive in it's pursuit of profits.

  18. #43
    Luke is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Just what about the pursuit of happiness?
    At the cost of mine?

  19. #44
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Right. Don't I have to help pay for your happiness every time you merrily cruise on down the road? At least, if you have a convertible sports car, I don't think I would have had to help pay for that extra bit of happiness. Money can buy happiness, sometimes even from the result of being taxed.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Media Barely Noticed Legal Gun-brandishing By Leftist Black Panthers in 2000 Protest

    Posted by Caleb on August 19, 2009

    Media Barely Noticed Legal Gun-brandishing By Leftist Black Panthers in 2000 Protest : Western Journalism.com

    According to the mainstream media, carrying a gun to a protest is just plain crazy, even if perfectly legal. What’s more, it’s indicative of the toxic, hate-filled atmosphere filling conservative protests of President Obama and his plans for health care reform.

    “Hardball” host Chris Matthews and his daytime colleagues at MSNBC, for example, have their used air time to marvel at what would possess an average American citizen to go to a rally near where President Obama is speaking with a gun.

    Media never criticized these guys…



    But the media reaction was markedly different nine years ago when a group of Black Panthers marched on the Texas Republican Party’s state convention on June 2000 brandishing AK-47s. Indeed, that incident itself was chalked up as then-Gov. Bush’s fault by none other than then-MSNBC "Equal Time" co-host Paul Begala.

    A search of Nexis and the Media Research Center’s News Tracking System found no stories on that evening’s broadcast network newscasts about the Black Panthers brandishing “assault weapons” to protest then-presumptive GOP presidential nominee – and Secret Service protectee – Gov. George W. Bush’s refusal to intervene in the pending execution of convicted murderer Gary Graham.

    Flashback! Armed Black Panthers Patrol the Polls! | The FOX Nation

  21. #46
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Right. Don't I have to help pay for your happiness every time you merrily cruise on down the road?
    Unfortunately, yes. But, if we privatized roads then you wouldn't.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    So the media should have kept it a secret that a person or persons were showing up armed outside of Obama's townhall meetings?

  23. #48
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Right. Don't I have to help pay for your happiness every time you merrily cruise on down the road? At least, if you have a convertible sports car, I don't think I would have had to help pay for that extra bit of happiness. Money can buy happiness, sometimes even from the result of being taxed.
    Bunty - you really should read and try to understand the Declaration of Independence. Here is the rest of the paragraph from the quote above.

    — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
    If an interstate highway system paid for by tax dollars is so offensive to you, as indicated by your post, then by all means attempt to alter the existing government or institute a new government. This is where you libs get off track - government is not an all or nothing proposition. Just because someone benefits from a toll-free highway systems doesn't mean they have to participate in a public option healthcare plan. We can have a highway network without having government run healthcare.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    So what if Americans showed up brandishing semi auto sporting version rifles? Was there a crime committed? HELL NO. Were they within their rights? HELL YES.

    Must have been a slow news day.

    Furthermore:

    Fire121
    Confederate Yankee: Source of All Reports that Radical Hate Groups Are Forming on the Right is ONE GUY...
    Mark Potok. A one man news organization bent on distortion and rousing. I still can't believe he's making news.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: SPLC Report: Return of the Militias

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    So the media should have kept it a secret that a person or persons were showing up armed outside of Obama's townhall meetings?
    Who gives a crap? They were law abiding and not doing any harm. Talk about fear mongering. This administration insists that anytime someone points out something may go bad it is fear mongering. Someone walks around armed, legally, and not doing a thing wrong and the libs want the media to report it like someone was under attack.

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