The ludicrous and backward part is this so called "torture" is about akin to saying pepper spray is cruel and unusual, or is excessive force. All policemen are subjected to it. Again, our special ops guys are subjected to this waterboarding.

Apparently you're not familiar with real torture. You know the kind the Japanese used, the kind that was used on our boys in Vietnam, or by the N.Koreans....the list goes on. Even while we're mollycoddling these terrorists, they're plotting their next attack. An "amazing" one. Which will surely target mothers, daughters, babies, grandparents, our pets...everyone except combatants.

But we don't want to hurt any of their delicate feelings.....

Are you volunteering to undergo this same treatment to demonstrate just how delicate it really is?

Are you volunteering to be in the next blown up building to demonstrate that it isn't worth torturing someone to prevent it?

Now Dave has got me worried about my dogs.

Forget it kids. The next big attack is going to leave me a widow but OKC should be safe.

I want to come home (with husband). Wish I could drag my kids with me but they are all stubborn and grown. A lethal combination against which motherhood has limited power.

I'm not defending the practice of blowing up buildings.

It's easier and quicker just to scapegoat liberals, though.

No, you are advocating letting other people get blown up in buildings rather than infringe upon the rights of a poor little terrorist.

Lead by example.

Can somebody explain how torture prevents terrorism? If we can establish this with something other than just the usual chickenhawk squawking, I'm all ears. As I said earlier, our military practice should be pragmatic. So, if this is such an essential weapon to prevent terrorist attacks, somebody point to some evidence.

Davie is right, though. Mace and murder are just about the same things. Funny thing, though, I've expereinced mace before but I've not been murdered. I wonder how I"m still typing? I know a few murder victims and they don't type anymore...somebody help me with this one.

While I'm certain this isn't the only example, does the name Manadel al-Jamadi ring any bells? Taking pictures of him got a bunch of clueless grunts sent to prison but the dumbass interogators who killed him skated.

Remember, according to our own manuals on torture, it is considered an unsuccessful interrogation when the subject dies.

reminds of a quote from one of my fav movies, cleaned up for the kids in the room:
Nice Guy Eddie: If you beat this guy long enough, he'll tell you he started the Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it so!

I'm not in the military, nor am I a policeman. I've never had the occasion to be maced, or peppersprayed. Nor would I like to.

Of course, I've never put myself in any of those positions where I'd need to be either.....

There are bad examples of how some bad apples in our military spoil the basket for others who are following orders. Try not to blanket the entire operation based on those.

Davie huh? LOL

Put it in perspective,
these are the guys who cut off heads with a kitchen knife, who kill homosexuals just because, who circumcise women so sex is not pleasurable, who strap bombs on to children and the mentally handicapped, and cheer when the innocent die.

Don't forget about the airplanes!

You clearly don't remember '95.

Yes, another work of terror by one of your fellow extremists. How could we forget.

Really? Never thought of it that way.

Coming from you... Enuf said.

Yeah, that. Sad, isn't it?

Well, he is. And believe it or not, there's someone in France who happens to think so too. Who would have thought that there was someone in France with an ounce of common sense?

Sarkozy snipes at 'dim' Spanish PM and 'weak' Barack Obama - Times Online

Well, I'm not real impressed with what a froggy thinks but I do think he shares the opinion of some people whose opinion amounts to something.

Name a terrorist attack which was prevented by torture.

omg loves it lol!

Would we know? Even if there are zero it doesn't change the point. If you can get information about an impending terrorist attack by torturing some terrorist, do you do it or do you wring your hands about violating said terrorists rights?

Why don't we just get rid of the constitution, declare martial law with curfews, remove everyone's rights, tatoo ID numbers on everyone....

I'm sure we could prevent all "terrorist" attacks that way.

And before you say, "But these are terrorists we're talking about," Tim McVeigh was a white xtian extremist. Does it make you feel better being blown up by some lilly white dude instead of Middle Easterners? Where would we draw the line?

Yes, torture like Japan did in WWII like the water-boarding crimes several soldiers were convicted of and sentenced to death....

Guys, prior to the last few years every major military, law enforcement, and intelligence organization of the US has for decades said that torture is not a good way to get intelligence out of a detainee. In fact it tends to do just the opposite and clam them up and/or cause them to start giving us false information.

Look at how our CIA usually operates. They befriend, bribe, blackmail, coerce, and infiltrate. Doesn't this tell you all something about what actually works?

Good God even the Soviets eventually decided bribing was the best way to go for their intelligence sources. Come on.