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  1. #1
    mecarr is offline Participating Member
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    Default Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    I'll be interested to see if this attracts much criticism from our conservative faithful on this messageboard.
    ---
    In a victory for nature enthusists, and all those who want to protect America's natural treasures, President Obama signed a sweeping land conservation package into law Monday, protecting more than 2 million acres as wilderness and creating a national system to conserve land held by the Bureau of Land Management.

    The measure, a collection of 170 bills that represents the most significant wilderness effort in at least 15 years, would provide the highest level of federal protection to areas such as Oregon's Mount Hood and part of Virginia's Jefferson National Forest, along with sites in California, Colorado, Idaho, Michigan, New Mexico, Utah and West Virginia. It also authorizes the first coordinated federal research program to investigate ocean acidification and allows additional funding to protect ecologically valuable coastal areas and estuaries.

    "This legislation guarantees that we will not take our forests, rivers, oceans, national parks, monuments and wilderness areas for granted, but rather we will set them aside and guard their sanctity for everyone to share," Obama said at the signing ceremony. "That's something all Americans can support."

    link

  2. #2
    metro is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    I dont have a problem with it at first glance, however by chance did he put this on his website for 5 days before signing as promised?

  3. #3
    Midtowner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Good stuff. Protecting the environment should be something that we can all get behind.

  4. #4
    jbrown84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by mecarr View Post
    "This legislation guarantees that we will not take our forests, rivers, oceans, national parks, monuments and wilderness areas for granted, but rather we will set them aside and guard their sanctity for everyone to share," Obama said at the signing ceremony. "That's something all Americans can support."
    Well said. Taking it for granted is exactly what the last administration did.
    Don't Edmond My Downtown

  5. #5
    DaveSkater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Is this land, by any chance where they just recently discovered the largest oil reserves in the entire world?

    The Williston Basin, more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' Stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada

    and:

    the largest Reserve in the World! Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006: Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted.
    Just wondering. Sure would be a cooincidence wouldn't it?

  6. #6
    bretthexum is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSkater View Post
    Is this land, by any chance where they just recently discovered the largest oil reserves in the entire world?



    Just wondering. Sure would be a cooincidence wouldn't it?
    Some things are more important than oil.

  7. #7
    mecarr is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    I dont have a problem with it at first glance, however by chance did he put this on his website for 5 days before signing as promised?
    I do not know, but did Bush ever do anything like that? It seems with Republicans that it's better to not promise or deliver anything at all than to promise something and only deliver some of the time..

  8. #8
    jbrown84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSkater View Post
    Is this land, by any chance where they just recently discovered the largest oil reserves in the entire world?
    see: taking for granted


    Oil will run out eventually. We can destroy our earth to get to every last drop, or we can protect it and look for long term solutions.
    Don't Edmond My Downtown

  9. #9
    Prunepicker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by mecarr View Post
    I do not know, but did Bush ever do anything like that? It seems with
    Republicans that it's better to not promise or deliver anything at all than to
    promise something and only deliver some of the time..
    That isn't an issue. BUT the fact that BO said that all bills would be on the
    Internet for five days for the public to examine is an issue. Why? Because BO
    has made it an issue.

    It hasn't happened yet and honestly and truly, I don't expect BO to ever put
    anything on the Internet.

  10. #10
    fire121 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by jbrown84 View Post
    see: taking for granted


    Oil will run out eventually. We can destroy our earth to get to every last drop, or we can protect it and look for long term solutions.
    Here are a couple links with critical analysis of the bill and a link to the actual bill. It has an interesting history.

    OpenCongress - Text of H.R.146 as Engrossed Amendment Senate Omnibus Public Land Management Act of 2009

    The American Spectator : Toxic Omnibus Anti-Energy, Anti-Civil Liberties Stew

    CNSNews.com - Congress Poised to Add 2 Million Acres to Off-Limits Federal ?Wilderness? Lands




    Remarks from Rep Doc Hastings (R-WA)

    http://republicans.resourcescommitte...px?NewsID=1765

    Can you explain how oil is "destroying" our earth?

    Here are some interesting facts. According to your statement above, you believe oil is destroying the earth. Could you please describe the environmental damage and negative impact oil and gas production is responsible for in the state of Oklahoma?
    As of 2006, Oklahoma had 31,016 active oil wells producing 49,572 Mbbl of oil and 47,021 gas wells producing 1,646,254 MMcf annually.
    This is an average of 1013 wells per county.

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p.../ok_table.html

    I think any sensible person would agree this is a significant number of oil and gas wells in our state.

    According to one of the articles above, this bill will place 1.2 million acres off limits to oil and gas production. This portion of the bill will place 8.8 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and 300 million barrels of oil out of production.
    I'm sure most on the left reading this think, so what.
    Well, here is the economic impact of oil and gas production in Oklahoma.
    60,000 jobs directly related to oil and gas production.
    3% of the total state work force.
    Average salary $83,000.
    1.6 billion generated in tax revenues from oil and gas production in 2006 alone.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n18724702/

    So, prove to me the negative impact this has had on Oklahoma and justify the job losses and lost revenues of the states affected by this bill.

  11. #11
    jbrown84's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Well this doesn't effect Oklahoma and I didn't say anything about a negative impact on Oklahoma.
    Don't Edmond My Downtown

  12. #12
    Kerry is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    I can't wait for the demise of the US (coming soon) so we can cut liberals loose to run their own country into the ground. Good luck building an economy run by alternative fuel. Just keep this in mind about alternatve fuel. 80 years ago oil was the alternative fuel. No matter what liberals come up with as a future fuel source (geothermal, solar, wind, crystallic fusion, salt water, or grass) some future liberals will claim the world is being destroyed by it.

    You see, the problem isn't the fuel source - it is capitalism that must be stopped. The 'enviornment' is just the vehicle being used to stop economic independence of the individual. Call me crazy, but batteries, solar panels, and wind generators are never going to power a Boeing 757, a freight train, a cargo ship, an M1 Abrams tank, a delta rocket, or a simi-truck. Stop high-energy fuel production and stop commerce.

  13. #13
    narrowexpanded's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveSkater View Post
    Is this land, by any chance where they just recently discovered the largest oil reserves in the entire world?



    Just wondering. Sure would be a coincidence wouldn't it?

    per Bakken
    snopes.com: Bakken Formation
    mixture of true and false information

    SNOPES is our friend...lets use it.

  14. #14
    Edmond_Outsider is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    The hysteria running loose here is quite amusing.

    Yo, chicken little, the sky isn't falling nor is it going to.

  15. #15
    TaoMaas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    Call me crazy...
    Okay, if you insist.

  16. #16
    HSC-Sooner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    I'm just glad we have a country that's pretty centered in politics. If you want a country that's dominated by conservatives, you would get the Taliban Afghanistan and other similar theocracies in the middle east. A country dominated by liberals, you will get France.

  17. #17
    Caboose is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by HSC-Sooner View Post
    I'm just glad we have a country that's pretty centered in politics. If you want a country that's dominated by conservatives, you would get the Taliban Afghanistan and other similar theocracies in the middle east. A country dominated by liberals, you will get France.
    Conservatism != religious fundamentalism.

    As hinted in the post below this one, Liberalism itself (at least the modern style of pseudo-Liberalism) is just as much a religion to it's zealots as any of the religions that one might attribute to Conservatives.

  18. #18
    TaoMaas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry View Post
    Good luck building an economy run by alternative fuel. Just keep this in mind about alternatve fuel.
    We'll just wait you out. Once you've run through your fuel supplies, polluted all your water, and your soil is too full of pesticides to produce any food, we'll own you.

  19. #19
    Caboose is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TaoMaas View Post
    We'll just wait you out. Once you've run through your fuel supplies, polluted all your water, and your soil is too full of pesticides to produce any food, we'll own you.
    Good little doomsday cultist.

  20. #20
    fire121 is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by HSC-Sooner View Post
    I'm just glad we have a country that's pretty centered in politics. If you want a country that's dominated by conservatives, you would get the Taliban Afghanistan and other similar theocracies in the middle east. A country dominated by liberals, you will get France.
    Wow, I guess I missed the list of banned activities of "conservative" women.
    Here's a breakdown of banned activities of Taliban woman.
    Post your list for the conservatives and we'll compare.

    Some of the restrictions imposed by Taliban on women in Afghanistan

    The following list offers only an abbreviated glimpse of the hellish lives Afghan women are forced to lead under the Taliban, and can not begin to reflect the depth of female deprivations and sufferings. Taliban treat women worse than they treat animals. In fact, even as Taliban declare the keeping of caged birds and animals illegal, they imprison Afghan women within the four walls of their own houses. Women have no importance in Taliban eyes unless they are occupied producing children, satisfying male sexual needs or attending to the drudgery of daily housework. Jehadi fundamentalists such as Gulbaddin, Rabbani, Masood, Sayyaf, Khalili, Akbari, Mazari and their co-criminal Dostum have committed the most treacherous and filthy crimes against Afghan women. And as more areas come under Taliban control, even if the number of rapes and murders perpetrated against women falls, Taliban restrictions --comparable to those from the middle ages-- will continue to kill the spirit of our people while depriving them of a humane existence. We consider Taliban more treacherous and ignorant than Jehadis. According to our people, "Jehadis were killing us with guns and swords but Taliban are killing us with cotton."

    Taliban restrictions and mistreatment of women include the:

    1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul.

    2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).

    3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.

    4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.

    5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.)

    6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.

    7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.

    8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.

    9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).

    10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).

    11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.

    12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).

    13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)

    14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.

    15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.

    16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.

    17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.

    18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."

    19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.

    20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.

    21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".

    22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.

    23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.

    24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.

    25- Ban on female public baths.

    26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").

    27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.

    28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.

    29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

    Apart from the above restrictions on women, the Taliban has:

    - Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.

    - Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.

    - Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic.

    - Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday.

    - Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.

    - Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth.

    - Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.

    - Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin.

    - Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.

    - Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped.

    - Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping.

    - Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban.

    - Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed.

    - Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.

    - All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".

    - Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews.

    - Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.

    And so on...



    Many of the anti-women rules that Taliban practiced were first of all the rules formulated and practiced by Rabbani-Massoud government after they came to power in 1992, but no one talk about them and it is painful that today even they are called the champaions of women's rights!!

    ON November 8, 1994 the UN Secretary-General presented the interim report on the situation of human rights in Afghanistan prepared by Mr. Felix Ermacora, Special Rapporteur of the Commission on Human Rights, in accordance with Commission on Human Rights resolution 1994/84 of 9 March 1994, and Economic and Social Council decision 1994/268 of 25 July 1994.

  21. #21
    Kerry is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Fire - replace 'women' with 'God' and you have the modern liberal idiology.

  22. #22
    Caboose is offline Participating Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by fire121 View Post
    Wow, I guess I missed the list of banned activities of "conservative" women.
    Here's a breakdown of banned activities of Taliban woman.
    Post your list for the conservatives and we'll compare.

    Some of the restrictions imposed by Taliban on women in Afghanistan

    The following list offers only an abbreviated glimpse of the hellish lives Afghan women are forced to lead under the Taliban, and can not begin to reflect the depth of female deprivations and sufferings. Taliban treat women worse than they treat animals. In fact, even as Taliban declare the keeping of caged birds and animals illegal, they imprison Afghan women within the four walls of their own houses. Women have no importance in Taliban eyes unless they are occupied producing children, satisfying male sexual needs or attending to the drudgery of daily housework. Jehadi fundamentalists such as Gulbaddin, Rabbani, Masood, Sayyaf, Khalili, Akbari, Mazari and their co-criminal Dostum have committed the most treacherous and filthy crimes against Afghan women. And as more areas come under Taliban control, even if the number of rapes and murders perpetrated against women falls, Taliban restrictions --comparable to those from the middle ages-- will continue to kill the spirit of our people while depriving them of a humane existence. We consider Taliban more treacherous and ignorant than Jehadis. According to our people, "Jehadis were killing us with guns and swords but Taliban are killing us with cotton."

    Taliban restrictions and mistreatment of women include the:

    1- Complete ban on women's work outside the home, which also applies to female teachers, engineers and most professionals. Only a few female doctors and nurses are allowed to work in some hospitals in Kabul.

    2- Complete ban on women's activity outside the home unless accompanied by a mahram (close male relative such as a father, brother or husband).

    3- Ban on women dealing with male shopkeepers.

    4- Ban on women being treated by male doctors.

    5- Ban on women studying at schools, universities or any other educational institution. (Taliban have converted girls' schools into religious seminaries.)

    6- Requirement that women wear a long veil (Burqa), which covers them from head to toe.

    7- Whipping, beating and verbal abuse of women not clothed in accordance with Taliban rules, or of women unaccompanied by a mahram.

    8- Whipping of women in public for having non-covered ankles.

    9- Public stoning of women accused of having sex outside marriage. (A number of lovers are stoned to death under this rule).

    10- Ban on the use of cosmetics. (Many women with painted nails have had fingers cut off).

    11- Ban on women talking or shaking hands with non-mahram males.

    12- Ban on women laughing loudly. (No stranger should hear a woman's voice).

    13- Ban on women wearing high heel shoes, which would produce sound while walking. (A man must not hear a woman's footsteps.)

    14- Ban on women riding in a taxi without a mahram.

    15- Ban on women's presence in radio, television or public gatherings of any kind.

    16- Ban on women playing sports or entering a sport center or club.

    17- Ban on women riding bicycles or motorcycles, even with their mahrams.

    18- Ban on women's wearing brightly colored clothes. In Taliban terms, these are "sexually attracting colors."

    19- Ban on women gathering for festive occasions such as the Eids, or for any recreational purpose.

    20- Ban on women washing clothes next to rivers or in a public place.

    21- Modification of all place names including the word "women." For example, "women's garden" has been renamed "spring garden".

    22- Ban on women appearing on the balconies of their apartments or houses.

    23- Compulsory painting of all windows, so women can not be seen from outside their homes.

    24- Ban on male tailors taking women's measurements or sewing women's clothes.

    25- Ban on female public baths.

    26- Ban on males and females traveling on the same bus. Public buses have now been designated "males only" (or "females only").

    27- Ban on flared (wide) pant-legs, even under a burqa.

    28- Ban on the photographing or filming of women.

    29- Ban on women's pictures printed in newspapers and books, or hung on the walls of houses and shops.

    Apart from the above restrictions on women, the Taliban has:

    - Banned listening to music, not only for women but men as well.

    - Banned the watching of movies, television and videos, for everyone.

    - Banned celebrating the traditional new year (Nowroz) on March 21. The Taliban has proclaimed the holiday un-Islamic.

    - Disavowed Labor Day (May 1st), because it is deemed a "communist" holiday.

    - Ordered that all people with non-Islamic names change them to Islamic ones.

    - Forced haircuts upon Afghan youth.

    - Ordered that men wear Islamic clothes and a cap.

    - Ordered that men not shave or trim their beards, which should grow long enough to protrude from a fist clasped at the point of the chin.

    - Ordered that all people attend prayers in mosques five times daily.

    - Banned the keeping of pigeons and playing with the birds, describing it as un-Islamic. The violators will be imprisoned and the birds shall be killed. The kite flying has also been stopped.

    - Ordered all onlookers, while encouraging the sportsmen, to chant Allah-o-Akbar (God is great) and refrain from clapping.

    - Ban on certain games including kite flying which is "un-Islamic" according to Taliban.

    - Anyone who carries objectionable literature will be executed.

    - Anyone who converts from Islam to any other religion will be executed.

    - All boy students must wear turbans. They say "No turban, no education".

    - Non-Muslim minorities must distinct badge or stitch a yellow cloth onto their dress to be differentiated from the majority Muslim population. Just like what did Nazis with Jews.

    - Banned the use of the internet by both ordinary Afghans and foreigners.

    And so on...



    Many of the anti-women rules that Taliban practiced were first of all the rules formulated and practiced by Rabbani-Massoud government after they came to power in 1992, but no one talk about them and it is painful that today even they are called the champaions of women's rights!!

    ON November 8, 1994 the UN Secretary-General presented the interim report on the situation of human rights in Afghanistan prepared by Mr. Felix Ermacora, Special Rapporteur of the Commission on Human Rights, in accordance with Commission on Human Rights resolution 1994/84 of 9 March 1994, and Economic and Social Council decision 1994/268 of 25 July 1994.
    Don't expect a sensible answer. It was a flawed assertion in first place. The plight of Afghan women is not due to the Taliban being "conservative", it is due to the Taliban being religious zealots. The two have nothing to do with each other.

  23. #23
    Luke is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Ya know, I'm a big Ron Paul fan. His philosophy of small, constitutional government leads him to the idea that the federal government cannot simply claim and own land except for a few spots in DC. With that in mind, I have read where his goal would be to sell off all government owned lands (including national forest land and parks) to the private sector. The main reason would be because the federal government has no constitutional right to simply claim land. Secondly, he has said that the private sector can protect land better than the government especially when our government contracts with industries (like logging) that take advantage of the land instead of protecting it.

    Now, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with his viewpoint. But, this is a discussion board... so, discuss.

  24. #24
    Prunepicker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by HSC-Sooner View Post
    I'm just glad we have a country that's pretty centered in politics. If you want
    a country that's dominated by conservatives, you would get the Taliban
    Afghanistan and other similar theocracies in the middle east.


    Since when does Conservatism equal the taliban or a theocracy? It doesn't.

  25. #25
    HSC-Sooner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Obama signs landmark wilderness bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post


    Since when does Conservatism equal the taliban or a theocracy? It doesn't.
    You would have to say that it does go hand in hand. The common conception of liberals is that they are associated with atheism or godlessness. And conservatives with religious people. Ted Haggard once claimed that he spoke with the White House once a week. Jerry Falwell helped galvanized the Christian right.

    I like the old conservatives, the Goldwater Conservatives if you will. But a good portion of today's breed of conservatives are shockingly almost theocratic. You don't have to go far to find lunatics in the conservative movement (you can say for the liberal movement too).

    Look at Ann Coulter for example: "If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president. It's kind of a pipe dream, it's a personal fantasy of mine, but I don't think it's going to happen." and "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity."

    I know she makes inflammatory quotes to stir up people but I'm sure this sentiment runs strongly in some people within the conservative movement.

    I really do admire people on both sides of the aisle if you will. Theodore Roosevelt was a moderate Republican in his time. He did wonders for America and helped established the foundations of a superpower America. Goldwater conservatives like Ron Paul are admirable. Would you consider yourself a Goldwater conservative or a religious conservative?

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