By that definition, there are plenty on your side of the aisle who fit the bill as well.

Route66 girl,

While I agree with much of what you have to say in principal, your tactics are really not helping your cause. A mod has already called you out on name-calling. This really isn't the place for it, although I will admit we have all slipped up in the heat of the moment.

Are their flame-baiters here? You betcha! Just like there are on any one of numerous other discussion boards. Some people even try to intentionally derail threads with misinformation. Others either flame or truly have fallen so hard for their candidate they fail to see reason.

One thing, however: calling people losers because they do not agree with you, coming out with emotionally-based statements that bare little of fact (just check out several online articles about Obama being considered the "messiah" by many) and generally coming on with an intent to inflame, rather than forward, discussion, does little to bring people into your corner, nor help them see your point of view.

The political forum is a tough place to be.

Completely agree.

didn't say he was a loser, I said he was being a sorry loser. As in lost the election and is being a sorry loser about it. I edited it out anyways, so people wouldnt think i was name calling, I suppose you saw it before I did that.

He is the one calling names in my book Obamamessiah? Give me a break, and no really why should I be nice to such a person, I was nice the entire election, enduring untold amounts of abuse from the republicans here and I come online to say how I feel, and I get jumped on by more freaked out repubs that want to abuse some more? At some point you say what you feel back. I called them bigots, because they are. Is that name calling? nah.

And lets be clear about this, I said nothing of racism until I was accused of race-baiting by saying people were being bigots. The definition of a Bigot has nothing to do with race... so who brought up race?

Of course and you assume I was one of those people by saying to me 'all libs are for murdering babies'
Sooo.. How is that Luke? Im probably the only 'lib' according to you that wouldn't have an abortion. lol.

As much as I hate to defend Prune or GWB because of some of their not-so-nice tactics(and I really, really mean that), what name did he call you? He didn't.

Please know calling the candidate names (Obamessiah, NoBama, McShame, McSame, etc.) is a tactic (not the nicest, but a tactic nonetheless) that is falling right into your hands. He wants you to take it personally, and you are. It's not meant as a slight to you as to your candidate of choice.

Best to ignore both of them.

Are their bigots in OKC? Yes. Is Sally Kern one of many? Heck, yes! I don't think anyone can deny that. Several republicans are bigots, as are several democrats. In fact, in some way, and on some level, we are all bigots. Bigotry is not just reserved for those who are against a particular race or sexual orientation. Heck, I could claim to be "bigotted" against many evangelical flamers because I don't believe in their G-d the same way they do, and I certainly don't believe in the way (especially in Oklahoma) they want to shove their religion down my throat, or in my politics.

You have to see as Luke pointed out earlier, that bigotry goes both ways. You can't tell someone that he or she is a bigot simply because they do not believe in what you believe in.

It's the old "intolerance" argument. I tolerate everyone except those who are intolerant.

Please know, I'm on your side. I understand what you are trying to say. I'm just trying to help you present it in a way so others won't jump on you so much.

I am. I'm following your example.

yes I agree with most of that but I pulled out the word bigot because I was told to leave Oklahoma because 77 counties voted republican and I dont fit in here. Also because I was told I was a baby killer for being democrat, even when I proved to them that 52,000 more abortion happened under bush than clinton, they still continued to call me such.

They are being bigots, I had enough of it. And I have said over and over in this election I could respect anyone that voted for McCain for real republican values based in reality, but I would not respect those telling me they voted for him because they believed the smears and lies and repeating them over and over.

For the most part I dont have a problem with other peoples views as long as they are not trying to force them on me, like you said.. but I do have a problem, if they are being mean to me for mine, or hateful to others and hypocrites such as Sally Kern or any person attempting to not separate church and state and turn America into a Theocracy, since it's breaking the law to do so. I also have a problem (is this being a bigot?) with republicans that freak out over single issues such as abortion but have no problem sending our children to wars based on a lie, that end up killing more innocent children.. but that falls under hypocrites.

Why, thank you, FritterGirl! So nice of you to defend me, I mean that. You are one of the nicer liberals on this forum. I appreciate your comments on the forum even though we differ in our politics.

By the way, just want to go on record with everyone here, Obama is my president now too (or will be in January), and while I don't agree with his politics, I pray for his success because I want America to succeed. We all need to come together and support our new president-elect, whether we agree with him or not. He has my support, but my political views are what they are and I have no intention of changing them. God bless our president-elect and give him wisdom to lead our great nation!

Well-put.

And as far as mods go here.. I am new to this board, I turned in the attacks before I replyd or got angry, nothing happened.. then finally after being called a baby murderer more than once and told to move away from Okla because I wasnt a repub, I did call a few tame names.

Personal attacks are not cool, but I see they are allowed on this forum.

Completely agree with both the straight-vote and write-in. Oklahoma is one of only 5 states in the Union that doesn't have a write-in option and the straight-vote option encourages people to vote based on partisanship and not on the issues.

route66gal, if you have a problem with moderating you'd be better served by sending karried or me a pm. publicly bashing the mods is a quick way to get banned.

but... since you brought it up publicly. you fired off a total of four complaints last night.

your first complaint was because somebody compared your writing style to another user.

your second report, the best i can tell, was because someone accused you of 'name-calling', 'belittling' and 'trolling.'

your third report was to a response that stated 'no sane person' would believe that sq 742 was put on the ballot to attract a 'republican fringe voter base.'

your fourth report was to the response, 'barack obama' to the question 'greatest threat facing the us today?'

i don't think it's unreasonable to say that most all of those were junk excuses to report posts. but... in response to all that, i replied to one of the more heated threads that 'you kids' need to cool off and quit it with the name-calling. karried also replied saying essentially the same thing. to say that 'nothing happened' is... well... it's a lie.

...and don't reply to this saying that you're being persecuted for your beliefs. frankly i don't care about your opinions... you're free to post whatever your opinion is. but you will do so in a civilized fashion.

that goes for all of you. -M

Not to mention, Reported posts were at 2:00am... sorry, we aren't on 24/7.

This is getting ridiculous. This board is not a free for all.

We are all passionate about our beliefs but we have to retain a sense of order around here.

__________________
" You've Been Thunder Struck ! "

Oklahoma is a conservative state, but we are also very populist. A democrat can win this state, but it has to be the right kind. Right now, the national Democratic Party is moving away from the ideals that are important to Oklahomans. They don't play to their strengths here.

A Dem could win Oklahoma by focusing on the right issues. Tax the rich, give government assistance to the poor. Have some New Deal programs, build bridges, roads, dams. Talk about helping the common man. Oklahomans (in general) don't care about tax breaks for a millionaire in New York. They do care about abortion.

The Dems as a whole have moved away from the issues that can help them win middle America. Their party, as a whole, is driven by Dems in New York and California, and so their national agenda is driven by the concerns there (and, to a lesser extent, the Rust Belt, where their heavy union support is vital). If Bush hadn't been so incredibly unpopular (and McCain not so damn old), McCain would have probably soundly defeated Obama. But Bush was actually unpopular enough that most of the country just wanted someone totally removed from him, and they wanted it badly enough to vote for a new face. In 2004, the Dems said "anyone but Bush". In 2008, most of the country was ready to follow along. I don't think this is a permanent shift on the part of the public -- the Dems still generally pander to the coasts, leaving the Repubs to go after the center of the country.

I hear and you respect not to call names in the forum.

I was not trying to imply nothing was done, I said nothing happened
to my reports of personal attacks, way before any name calling or being angry on my part happened. Yes something was done, after *i* made retorts to the personal attacks on the abortion topic. I am used to hanging out in forums that do not allow personal attacks of any kind, misinformation or hateful things posted, harassment or any of what I see here.
If you read the more heated one and the one where I was told to move,
you could see those are personal attacks on me.

I'm not really interested in hanging out here now. If you want to jump on me and defend the trolls, I see how this is heading.
I wasnt trying to call the mod out, I was replying to the person that mentioned the mod telling me not to call names, trying to explain
the situation from my view.
But since my reply to you calling me out in public, will be seen as me calling a mod out, I think I will call it day.

bye.

Banned in 3...2...1...

What ever will we do without Solitude?

Toodles.

I wrote a really long post to Solitude, but by the time I clicked reply, my login had apparently timed out and I lost my message. Why is there an automatic logout on this message board? It's not like it's sensitive material...

Anyway, I basically said I understand Solitude's point of view completely. I'm torn between staying here and moving somewhere where people don't tell me to "get the hell out" every time I disagree with a republican talking point.

However, I grew up in Major County, which voted 85% in favor of McCain. That's the Oklahoma I knew and hated for years. However, when I moved to OKC, I found myself among colleagues who supported Obama, and I meet dynamic, creative, educated, progressive-thinking people (libs and cons) every day who are working to improve the city instead of fighting about gay agendas and "moral issues".

I was inspired by the fact that in 20 years, these are the people who will be running the show. The question is... can I wait 20 years? As long as I'm single, I plan on staying here, but I can't see myself raising kids in the same world I grew up in: where kids are taught by ignorant people in positions of power that homosexuality is wrong, science is for heathens, and civil rights are for Christians only.

I haven't logged out once since I signed up and I'm not on the forum at all when I'm off work, so I don't know why yours signs out. Maybe your browser deletes cookies after a certain time or something?

Message boards shouldn't be taken so seriously.

Farewell Solitude and route66gal.

I wish you the best!

Funny thing about messiah's...
They end up on crosses or something closely related.

Original poster .....solitude here.....

I had no idea that my thread would spark the venomous back and forth it did. I'm going to reply a bit and take a few minutes to better explain my thoughts and will try to make it short. Not that my leaving OKC matters to anyone - I'm not that vain, but I think an "exit survey" like after leaving a job, is always worth something, whether you agree or disagree.

1. We are not leaving because of a message board. That's ridiculous. If you read my posting history, my posts on politics only picked up within the last few months. I have many, many posts regarding the city in general, urban design, OKC history (remember, I was raised here!) and many other topics. The postings from a few can't cause somebody to get up - with a family - and move. So, no, OKCTalk has nothing to do with anything. It only shows a few of the symptoms as to why I am leaving. And no, that doesn't mean because they disagree with me - it means because those (very few) are flamethrowers who only know how to throw out red meat. I have always liked discussing politics, but also the fine points of policy. Frankly, the few bad apples here simply can't do that.

2. "One less Communist in Oklahoma?" I'm not a communist, but would admit - as I have many times before - that I am a social democrat of the European stripe. Or, a liberal populist of the Oklahoma stripe circa 1910-1928.

3. Much of what I wrote in point #1 can be said about the election. The election was only a symptom. It's not about one election. But the symptoms of 77 counties for John McCain and Sarah Palin, Jim Inhofe and Tom Coburn in the U.S. Senate, Mary Fallin in the Congress; legislators like the newly elected lobbyist to the state House Jason Nelson, David Dank, Sally Kern, state leaders like Glenn Coffee...I could go on and on. So, yes, politics is a reflection of the culture of which it arises. To the extent that our move has something to do with "elections" - it's not just the presidential race, it's about the entire political landscape, which again, reflects the culture. I would be lying if I din't admit it matters. But the political sphere is populated by those who sent them - by definition. What do our choices say about Oklahoma? It's a reflection.

4. Fleeing? Loser? Running away? Quitter? Not hardly. Any number of studies will tell you that a cultural climate like the one we have here in Oklahoma runs off young professionals, intellectuals, artists, etc. It's a matter of not using the one life given us to fight a battle everyday. To not run into people everywhere I turn who think not going to church, or lack of a belief in a God is something that means their kids can't play with your kids. The whole neighborhood learns that those liberal "infidels" are to be avoided. After all, they say, the Bible tells them to "be separate" and "associate with Godliness." They all seem to think "Pro-Life" means save the baby in the womb, at all costs, but kill them in Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and then say, "well - war's hell." If a life is a life is a life is a life........Again, it's a pervasive culture that is hard to live with and make the fit. And it's everywhere in Oklahoma.

I admire those who want to stay and "change" things. I believe in change and that's why I gave a lot of money to Obama-Biden. But for the average citizen in Oklahoma to think they'll change the mega-church around every corner culture in Oklahoma - they're only wishing against all evidence. Are there pockets of diversity and liberal thought in Oklahoma City and Norman? Absolutely! Frustrated pockets. I mean, after all, far-right talker Michael Savage lives in San Francisco. He stays for the beauty and love for the city. I can understand that. But, Oklahoma City, and Oklahoma in general, lacks so much, that to compare it to great cities simply isn't fair. Someday? Who knows. But, as I wrote before, buildings and an NBA team don't make a city. And we're back around to the whole cultural landscape thing.

To those very conservative Christians on this board, would you live in San Francisco and "try to change things?" Would you live in Burlington, VT and "try to change things?" If so, you're a minority of the religious right. Why? Fellowship with like minds!; And while there may be a few of you in SF and Burlington, they are few and far between. Now, turn it around, I can do my work - literally - from anywhere in this country. I work for myself and the nature of my work is such that I have nothing to keep me anywhere. Under those conditions, why would I want to stay here? For the same reasons a religious conservative wouldn't feel comfortable and accepted in the above scenarios. One thing the election did do, was make me realize how the stereotypes of our state are so very often - right on the mark! Not just the election results, but the behavior of people, the bias of the local TV media, the far-right slant of Gaylord's Oklahoman. It does say something. It is a reflection. It all does have influence. And we end up with a culture that is very much like people - in other parts of the country - see us and frankly, shudder at.

As for this board, there's a lot of truly nice people here. I don't agree with all of them. Midtowner is on a search for a political philosophy he can call his own. I can't help but be proud of seeing somebody so willing to decide for himself, and sometimes make enemies in the process, because he doesn't follow a set of ideas about what it means to be "conservative." I won't go calling out names because that gets me in trouble. But Doug, Easy, Born Here, Kerry (another with whom I disagree with a lot, but clearly is a thinker).....I could go on, but I really will stop there. Bottom line: there's a lot of good people on this board.

To the critics who agree with me politically, remember the old adage about "walking in my shows" and ask yourself if you were in my position, and able to move anywhere, without financial concerns, would you stay? Many of you would. But I have a sneaking suspicion many would leave. This is an exodus that's been going on for years. There's nothing new or unique about solitude's leaving.....I just wanted to say goodbye and share a few thoughts.