Goodbye, Oklahoma City - Page 2

Bunty · #26 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcsooner

I must admit, the persistent ignorance and predjudice displayed by many in Oklahoma is a deterrent to my ever wanting to return to live in my home State. For such a poor State, the populus seems to be hell bent on retaining the attitudes of Shaun Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and others who preach intolerence of any position outside of theirs. With the voting patterns displayed during this last presidential election, Oklahoma will remain poor, relatively uneducated and a place were more progressive and open minded thinkers avoid.

But Oklahoma has done a lot since the century began in revolting against the religious right agenda plus outlawing cockfighting. I hope you're up to date on it.

What that means now is that visitors when coming to Oklahoma are less likely to be utterly bewildered upon hearing about controversial issues in Oklahoma news reports being discussed because those issues were settled in their states decades ago.

Bunty · #27 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millie

He states that "The 77-county sweep for John McCain and Sarah Palin(!) made national news and spoke volumes all across this great country. That image makes a huge difference and can't be underestimated." This implies that there is somehow something wrong with voting for a Republican candidate? The state has conservative values. There isn't anything wrong with that.

So there's nothing wrong with conservative values when a conservative state, such as Oklahoma, leads the nation in the incarceration rate of its women, along with having one of the highest rates for men? Yet after doing this, it doesn't have one of the lowest crime rates in the nation.

Is there not something wrong with conservative values when Oklahoma has one of the highest rates of unwed teen births in the nation, even though the Bible clearly states that fornication is wrong?

What does it say about conservative values when Oklahoma has one of the most poorly maintained highway systems in America?

More Oklahomans go without medical insurance than most other states. What does that say about the good behind conservative values?

For suicide death rate Oklahoma ranks no. 14. By the way, nearly all states ranked higher than Oklahoma would be considered conservative. Source: http://www.suicidology.org/associati...tedatapgv1.pdf

There's more poverty in Oklahoma. Maybe conservative values have poor ways.

During the 1990s Oklahoma was the only state where the number of years in life expectancy went down, not up. How's that for practicing conservative values?

With Oklahoma such a loser big time with its practice of conservative values, you can sure count me out to ever become a conservative.

dcsooner · #28 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 04:43 PM

No one is attacking conservative values, as a lifelong DEMOCRAT, I believe in the sanctity of marriage, I am a born again christian, I believe in self help, but realize that all is not equal in terms of access, and I believe in taxes as low as possible (but I am willing to pay more to help another). I am not monolithic, I also, believe in Choice, helping those at the bottom ( conservatives call it redistribution), what the hell was the chrysler bailout, the Wall Street Bailout etc. I am a veteran but do not support this unnecessary and unwarranted war against IRAQ (Does that make me unpatriotic?) this Country was founded on dissent, that's what makes it truley a great country. I have NEVER heard a conservative radio host say ANYTHING positive about a liberal or Democratic agenda. There is something wrong when EVERYTHING is presented as wrong by one side (makes we want to look further into the facts). I do not fall for the fear tactics of the Republican Party, no Iraqi has threatened me at my home in VA, I have more to fear from my neighbors than the Iraqis. Why don't we spent $$ securing our borders instead of lives and treasure a million miles away. I could go on but the issue is why does a poor (per capita income) State like Oklahoma with overall low educational levels, small middle class etc consistently vote Republican when the mantra of the party is to help yourself and there is not place for government to help? VA is one of the most affulent States in the Union and went Blue, So is MD, So is NY, CA,WA, OR, FL. OK one of the poorest along with MS, AL,TN , AR, etc some of the poorest, get my drift?

Midtowner · #29 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edmond_Outsider

But age and oceans don't explain a place like Dallas which OK loses lots of its best and brightest to.

Dallas has a critical mass of people as well as what we conservatives might call a very 'conservative,' i.e., pro-business tax scheme which has enticed many corporations to relocate there. Dallas might be an example of what could be if the pro-business wing of the Republican party was allowed to run wild.

Quote:

Denver might be another example.

Denver has mountains and was founded in 1858.

Quote:

Durango

Only has a population of about 15,000.

Quote:

Santa Fe

One of the oldest cities on the continent. Founded in 1610. Besides that, it only has an MSA population of around 185K.

Quote:

Minneapolis.

Founded in the 1860's and is a major port city on the Mississippi River.

Quote:

I agree we are making progress. How OKC has developed in the past 15 years is exciting to me. I'm excited to see what happens in the future. It's one of the reasons I'm happy to stay here.

I concur... I think ideologically, we both see ideal direction for our city to move in as something different, but at least we can agree that so far, we've been doing pretty darn well over the last 15 years.

Bunty · #30 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midtowner

Dallas has a critical mass of people as well as what we conservatives might call a very 'conservative,' i.e., pro-business tax scheme which has enticed many corporations to relocate there. Dallas might be an example of what could be if the pro-business wing of the Republican party was allowed to run wild.

But how do you know the much higher property taxes in Texas don't work to some degree to discourage business and industry?

Back during the Keating years it was discussed that Oklahoma should do like Texas and abolish the state income tax. But it seemed that talk of that died down when it was brought up how outrageously higher the property taxes were in Texas. Anyway, there probably should have been a more imaginative discussion on how to replace the Oklahoma state income tax.

PennyQuilts · #31 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 06:01 PM

Good luck to you, Solitude. Please drop in, often. You don't have to live in OKC to post. Perhaps after you have been gone awhile you will look at the state with a bit more fondness. It has its drawbacks, like all places, but there is so much good, too. In fact, after you relocate, I'd be interested in your opinions about how your new place and Oklahoma City compare. I hope you will let us know.

Again, good luck to you.

Midtowner · #32 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunty

But how do you know the much higher property taxes in Texas don't work to some degree to discourage business and industry?

Perhaps because Texas has outstanding growth? Maybe that's attributable to them having great infrastructure and a critical mass of employable people, but the tax code has to have something to do with things being so great down there.

Architect2010 · #33 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 08:02 PM

And its people like you that will keep this state from ever moving from that state of mind. If you just leave because you cannot stand other people's opinions, then how are you helping the change in this state?

And actually, I challenge a lot of you to look at the mindsets of teenagers. At my school, Southeast High Specialty School of Technology, we had a mock election. Guess the results? 400 Something to 100 Something, Obama vastly outnumbering McCain, me being pro-Obama.

Kids in this state and especially urban centers such as OKC and Tulsa are sooo much different than the adults that populate this place. If we could switch roles, Oklahoma would have been all Obama. You can't just leave because if you want it to change, you're gonna have to help. I know that when my generation comes to age and if we retain just half of them in OKC, then you're gonna have a lot of those "Forward and progressive" people you speak of. And besides, its not like there is a lack of them here in OKC, I'm pretty sure the race between Obama and McCain here was very close. Our city is becoming so much more different everyday, our state as a whole may be slow to catch on to it, but in the end...I don't think it matters because we are all entitled to our opinions.

Thankyou and goodluck with your future.

Rover · #34 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 08:49 PM

Let's face it. Oklahomans haven't exhibited a lot of free thinking. Wanting to keep people uneducated and poor is mistaken by closed minded as anit-elitism. Most Oklahoman's know very little of how the world actually works because they have little exposure to how things work elsewhere. Most haven't traveled far outside of Oklahoma or Texas and think Kansas is liberal. It will take a long time to change this anti-culture culture.

betts · #35 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 09:07 PM

I enjoy diversity. Diversity of opinion, as well as diversity of other sorts. I'm in the minority here as far as my politics go, but that's fine with me. I've got great friends who have politics like mine, as well as great friends with politics that are very dissimilar. That's what American is all about, to my way of thinking. We never quite complete the melting process here, but that makes life interesting.

route66gal · #36 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 02:21 AM

I was just told in this forum since I am against Sally Kern and 77 counties in OKLA voted republican, that I should move.

All I have to say to that is: That is PRESIDENT OBAMA you BIGOTS and dont you forget it!!!!!!!!

PennyQuilts · #37 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by route66gal

All I have to say to that is: That is PRESIDENT OBAMA you BIGOTS and dont you forget it!!!!!!!!

I'm not a bigot and that particular statement is sanctimonious and uncalled for. There is no need to racebait and that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

GWB · #38 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solitude

This thread actually started as a response to a "Thunder" post.....

I still visit OKCTalk to keep up and read the latest on civic and business activity. I haven't posted but once since August (A photo on election night). But the above from this man/woman deserves a response....

Thunder: Your bombastic posts that sound like Neo-Nazi pamphlets from the wheat fields disgust me. They are so stereotypical with all the misspellings, poor grammar and nutty ultra-conservative AM radio claptrap. Not that you care, but I feel better having said it.

By the way, you're confident of, "Oklahoma being recession-proof while the rest of the nation goes under along with the stock market." Do you really think Oklahoma is an island that can sustain itself if the rest of the country goes to hell? You've said crap like this in other posts that lack a patriotism for the United States of America. To you, Oklahoma is some kind of island of prosperity and you couldn't care less what happens to the rest of the country. An odd patriot you make.

By the way, ask Sonic, Chesapeake and others how insulated Oklahoma is from the travails of the stock market. They all found out in the last sixty days how wrong you are.

Thunder, you show such incredible ignorance. Yet, you, in many ways, reflect the thinking of many in Oklahoma and that's damn sad. (The only state where every county went to McCain-Palin - and some by 80-90%!). Those who stay here, and fight against those of Thunder's ilk, are brave. Oklahoma City and Tulsa have much to offer and have a bright future. But it's going to be a long, tough slog and I'm not prepared to sacrifice my own life to be a part of any "renaissance" amongst so many backward and selfish people - everywhere I turn. That's why my wife and I have decided that Oklahoma City, the city I was raised, (but left for several years and returned) is simply not the kind of place we want to finish raising our families. We're leaving. The cultural "thunder" of this city is deafening, isolating, intolerant, racist, ultra-ultra-conservative, and one that will continue to drive young professionals away in droves. The NBA's Thunder is not going to save this city. Devon's plans are not going to save this city. Because every great city is more that its buildings, sports and grand plans - it's the people who populate it. And in Oklahoma, the educated, cultured, thoughtful person is in the minority as they face the onslaught of rightwing religion, culture, business and politics; a small political clique that is controlled by the wealthy few - and the average citizen is given token attention (except when its time to ask them to fund their private projects where they'll reap all the profit).

I wish Oklahoma City all the best and good luck. It's going to need it. The 77-county sweep for John McCain and Sarah Palin(!) made national news and spoke volumes all across this great country. That image makes a huge difference and can't be underestimated. There are some good people on this board and I will miss you. But it also doesn't escape me that this board is full of people who say "we" when they mean "you guys" because some of the most prolific posters here at OKCTalk - you guessed it - live out of state. Even the owner of the OKCtalk board - lives in California. Pete is a great and intelligent guy - enough to realize its best to champion Oklahoma --- from a distance.

Spare me the "don't let the door hit you...." posts. Like I said, the selfish mean spirit (albeit done very often with a smile) is part of our culture, as displayed in our civic discourse and decisions at the polls.

We leave in January. Goodbye, OKCTalk, and to my many friends here. To those who hope for a better and more progressive future - keep up the fight. But if things don't show signs of change, remember life is short and there are many cities that are everything so many of us only wish Oklahoma City could be -- one day.

Goodbye.

So, there's gonna be one less communist in Oklahoma. That's not so bad.

GWB · #39 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by route66gal

I was just told in this forum since I am against Sally Kern and 77 counties in OKLA voted republican, that I should move.

All I have to say to that is: That is PRESIDENT OBAMA you BIGOTS and dont you forget it!!!!!!!!

Your leader, the great Obamessiah has taught you well, hasn't he?

TaoMaas · #40 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 06:25 AM

Every place has it's positives and negatives. I used to date a woman from Massachusetts years ago. She and I were going for a drive in the country here in Oklahoma when we passed an old man in a pick-up truck. As most Okies do on country roads, we waved to each other as we passed. My friend said, "Who's that?" I said, "I don't know." She said, "Well, he must know you because he waved to you." I said, "No....that's just what folks do out here." She seemed amazed that people would give a friendly greeting to complete strangers. When I visited her home back in Massachusetts, she took me into Boston to show me around. I was taking lots of pictures and eventually had to stop to reload my camera. She started freaking out, saying, "Don't stop! Keep walking! When you stop, it makes you a target!" That sounded crazy to me, so I stopped and reloaded my camera anyway, but she was so frightened that she refused to stand next to me while I did it. The final morning of my visit to Massachusetts, I got up before dawn and went for a walk with my camera. I walked quite a ways, stopping to talk to folks who were out watering their lawns or getting their paper, and eventually I went into a little coffee shop where I sat at the counter with a bunch of the locals. We watched the news on tv and discussed the issues of the day. When I got back to my friend's house, she and her parents asked where I'd been. When I told them, they got a horrified look on their faces and said I was lucky to be alive. You see, I had unknowingly wandered into the Portugese section of town and being a dumb Okie, I wasn't aware that I was supposed to be prejudiced against the Portugese. So...every place has it's good points and it's bad.

bandnerd · #41 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 06:42 AM

Um, it's President-elect Barack Obama. He's not the President until Jan 20, 2009.

Just sayin'.

solitude, if you feel you must leave, then leave. But you aren't making anywhere a better place for it. Back in the days of the "white flight" when white people moved out of the cities into the suburbs, what good did that do? Now the suburanites are moving back into the cities.

There were McCain supporters in the Northeast...there were McCain counties in almost every state of the Union. Being a Republican or a conservative doesn't make you stupid, uneducated, uber-Christian, white, male, or anything else.

A teacher at my school told me a couple of weeks before the election that she couldn't understand how either a woman or a teacher could possibly be a Republican. I didn't say anything, but I was mad as hell. How dare anyone tell me how to think! If you support Obama, then more power to you. That's fine, but just like me and religion--don't push it on me.

Times could change. Our school did a little mock election and it was 70% Obama. Regardless of who was elected, there will be change.

Good luck to you, solitude. Stop by and check out how OKC is doing once in awhile. I'm sure a stranger will wave atcha.

Bostonfan · #42 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWB

Your leader, the great Obamessiah has taught you well, hasn't he?

Stay classy

okcpulse · #43 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solitude

This thread actually started as a response to a "Thunder" post.....

I still visit OKCTalk to keep up and read the latest on civic and business activity. I haven't posted but once since August (A photo on election night). But the above from this man/woman deserves a response....

Thunder: Your bombastic posts that sound like Neo-Nazi pamphlets from the wheat fields disgust me. They are so stereotypical with all the misspellings, poor grammar and nutty ultra-conservative AM radio claptrap. Not that you care, but I feel better having said it.

By the way, you're confident of, "Oklahoma being recession-proof while the rest of the nation goes under along with the stock market." Do you really think Oklahoma is an island that can sustain itself if the rest of the country goes to hell? You've said crap like this in other posts that lack a patriotism for the United States of America. To you, Oklahoma is some kind of island of prosperity and you couldn't care less what happens to the rest of the country. An odd patriot you make.

By the way, ask Sonic, Chesapeake and others how insulated Oklahoma is from the travails of the stock market. They all found out in the last sixty days how wrong you are.

Thunder, you show such incredible ignorance. Yet, you, in many ways, reflect the thinking of many in Oklahoma and that's damn sad. (The only state where every county went to McCain-Palin - and some by 80-90%!). Those who stay here, and fight against those of Thunder's ilk, are brave. Oklahoma City and Tulsa have much to offer and have a bright future. But it's going to be a long, tough slog and I'm not prepared to sacrifice my own life to be a part of any "renaissance" amongst so many backward and selfish people - everywhere I turn. That's why my wife and I have decided that Oklahoma City, the city I was raised, (but left for several years and returned) is simply not the kind of place we want to finish raising our families. We're leaving. The cultural "thunder" of this city is deafening, isolating, intolerant, racist, ultra-ultra-conservative, and one that will continue to drive young professionals away in droves. The NBA's Thunder is not going to save this city. Devon's plans are not going to save this city. Because every great city is more that its buildings, sports and grand plans - it's the people who populate it. And in Oklahoma, the educated, cultured, thoughtful person is in the minority as they face the onslaught of rightwing religion, culture, business and politics; a small political clique that is controlled by the wealthy few - and the average citizen is given token attention (except when its time to ask them to fund their private projects where they'll reap all the profit).

I wish Oklahoma City all the best and good luck. It's going to need it. The 77-county sweep for John McCain and Sarah Palin(!) made national news and spoke volumes all across this great country. That image makes a huge difference and can't be underestimated. There are some good people on this board and I will miss you. But it also doesn't escape me that this board is full of people who say "we" when they mean "you guys" because some of the most prolific posters here at OKCTalk - you guessed it - live out of state. Even the owner of the OKCtalk board - lives in California. Pete is a great and intelligent guy - enough to realize its best to champion Oklahoma --- from a distance.

Spare me the "don't let the door hit you...." posts. Like I said, the selfish mean spirit (albeit done very often with a smile) is part of our culture, as displayed in our civic discourse and decisions at the polls.

We leave in January. Goodbye, OKCTalk, and to my many friends here. To those who hope for a better and more progressive future - keep up the fight. But if things don't show signs of change, remember life is short and there are many cities that are everything so many of us only wish Oklahoma City could be -- one day.

Goodbye.

So... you're leaving Oklahoma City based on the outcome of the election, or because a few bad eggs on a message board?

Let me tell you why the 'progressive' thinking are a minority in Oklahoma City. It's because instead of choosing to stay and outweigh those that are not of like-thinking, they chose the easy way out, moving to another state. Don't get me wrong, it's your choice, and I don't fault you for it, but I feel you're moving out of Oklahoma for all the wrong reasons. After living in Oklahoma almost all of my life, and having traveled to many places and meeting many people, Oklahoma is indeed conservative, but it is NOT the deafening, isolated culture you describe. It's funny, almost everyone in OKC can give the same description, but who truly fits the description? Few if any have stood up and said "Yeah, that describes me!"

Since living in Houston for the last few years (I am here for family reasons so don't get started on championing Oklahoma from afar), I can say first hand that OKC is no more conservative or liberal than Houston, but I am sick of people making excuses for other cities while putting the board to OKC's rear-end for the same mishaps.

To be honest, I am done with this conservative vs. liberal bullcrap. Both sides are equally warped and are doing a great deal of damage by splitting this country in two. It's a distraction from solving issues head-on. It's amazing how uncivil and ugly people get after an election.

Liberals are guilty after this last election for trying to duct-tape the mouths of conservatives. Conservatives are guilty for droning on about family values and morals when they have no f**king clue what morals we should really be worried about (government bailouts are one of them). I have decided that politically, I am just going to use common sense. I hold every politician accountable regardless of party affiliation, and I don't discuss controversial issues because all it does is get the room heated.

Oklahoma isn't lacking in progress because of liberal OR conservative practices. Oklahoma is lacking in progress because to damn many people feel sorry for themselves (the whoa is me - I live in Oklahoma types ) and resort to criminal activities or drugs. Or those that were just plain raised poorly.

Most Oklahomans are easy-going and laid back. It's what I love about Oklahoma. But continue to lament over the pseudo-super conservative Okie everyone's mentally assembled. That is what is holding this state back. There are people in Oklahoma, and everywhere for that matter, that are extremist by definition, but I don't waste my time around those people. You are right, solitude, life is too short. It's too short to distract one's self by worrying all the time what others think. It only matters to me what my friends and family think. And every single one of my friends and family - in Oklahoma City - are forward thinkers.

Solitude, I wish you well and I am sure you will be happy where ever that may be, but as long as we champion Oklahoma from afar, it will never change. We should hold ourselves accountable for that.

OKCMallen · #44 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 08:48 AM

Solitude- so what you're saying is that you're a quitter. Thanks for making a difference.

TaoMaas · #45 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by okcpulse

Most Oklahomans are easy-going and laid back. It's what I love about Oklahoma. But continue to lament over the pseudo-super conservative Okie everyone's mentally assembled. That is what is holding this state back.

I agree with this..."We have met the enemy and he is us".

CuatrodeMayo · #46 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 09:12 AM

If you are going to turn your back and leave anything...leave internet message boards.

I'm thinking about it.

route66gal · #47 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by East Coast Okie

I'm not a bigot and that particular statement is sanctimonious and uncalled for. There is no need to racebait and that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

Oh really then why did it hurt your feelings? Do you know how many people on this board and in Oklahoma are racisit Bigots? Dont think I didnt get all those emails forwarded to me from peoples work places from all over Oklahoma. Some even coming from the Tink AFB ect ect ect . Containing racist, smear, fears and outright lies about Obama and the local elections. You people (maybe not you but many many many here) have lost their mind and act like youre in the 1800's.

Shameful, and yes it feels good that the Dems, the sane people gave you a good woopin. Oklahoma may have went all red, but there are only 2 explanations for that. 1. Fixed elections. 2. lies, racism and bigotry

But also.. How was it race baiting to call someone a bigot?

bigot
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
big⋅ot

a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

bishop186 · #48 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 10:45 AM

Just a note: both parties are insane and so is Oklahoma for being the only two-party state in the union for the presidential election.

route66gal · #49 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishop186

Oklahoma for being the only two-party state in the union for the presidential election.

We need ballot access reform. I agree with that part. also..

2 things wrong with all this..

We need write in option
and
They need to get rid of the straight vote option

route66gal · #50 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GWB

Your leader, the great Obamessiah has taught you well, hasn't he?

Above statement proves my point.

No one thinks Obama is the messiah and I take offense to that as Christian.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
On calling the team Oklahoma City (?)	Laramie	OKC Metro Area Talk	76	05-04-2008 03:48 AM
From Dust Bowl to River City	betts	OKC Metro Area Talk	7	10-11-2007 01:34 PM
NBA: Welcome to Oklahoma City; please stay	scotplum	Oklahoma City Thunder	2	11-02-2005 04:37 PM
OKC becoming quite a convention city	Patrick	OKC Metro Area Talk	3	07-29-2005 03:04 PM
Another chance to improve city	Proactive Volunteer	OKC Metro Area Talk	4	11-30-2004 10:21 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)