Taken from a link at bricktown.biz:

Forest Park should be held
accountable!


He said it was a "50 in a 35" according to the radar. But was it?

I don't know. I don't think it was. My mind was elsewhere as I took the 'back way' to my home in Spencer.

I had just avoided a couple of near-accidents on I-35, one person having actually gotten run off the road by someone not paying attention to others. I was still a bit shook up and decided to take the 'scenic route' back home instead of N.E. 23rd and calm down a bit.

That was my first bad mistake.

It was hot in my car even with the windows rolled down. I was in my old 'to work and back' 88 Nissan with a broken air conditioner in triple digit heat weather. My speedometer had given up the ghost a few months before and I pretty much had to judge everything by traffic flow. I got off N.E. 36th exit as I had dozens of time over the years. So far, so good. I assumed my speed was perfectly safe and reasonable and it 'felt' like 35mph.

That was my second bad mistake.

Now, I have always been an especially careful driver as most of us are. I'm one of those over-forty-safe-driver-insurance-discount kind of guys with the immaculate record. You know the type. But, we have all had one of those days where if something could go wrong, it did.

That was one of those days.

A lot of us that have lived in any of the communities east of Forest Park and have used that route have always taken special care to be 'speed conscious' while travelling through there. Most of us, who go through there occasionally and 'know the deal', usually do.

It's not like I didn't see the cop. I did. He was travelling the opposite way. Yep, no sooner than I had commented to myself the very words, "Wow, they got a new unmarked car and man is it ugly" than that same car hit the ol' lights, whipped around and pulled me over, all with the precision of a well oiled machine. This was definitely not the first time THIS officer had gone through the routine. (I won't name any names, but his initials start with "D Fuller". That was what was on my ticket. Just so you will know. (Note: I say, in his defense, that he really seemed like a nice enough guy, and could be for all I know, but I've been around long enough to know that looks aren't everything. All I can really do is judge what a person allows to happen around them and make part of my judgement on that.)

"50 in a 35". That was the 'verdict' right there. What could I do but just hope I could survive the wait in the sweltering heat long enough for the officer to come back from his air-conditioned unit and present me with my judgement. I was near heat-induced nausea by the time he got back.

I might add that it was the first ticket I ever heard of in my life that the officer actually wrote it for the actual alleged speed. I hear most cops in other places usually cut the speed down on the ticket to give the impression that they are giving the person a break and also perhaps as an implication that it is the safety of the driver, and not the money collected from the fine, that the cop is concerned about.

Not in Forest Park.

Now, I know...in fact we ALL pretty much know what goes on there in that 'town'. It doesn't take but a little Google-ing on the Internet to come up the fact that Forest Park rakes in a hefty 40% of its 'operating expenses' from fleecing the public in the form of traffic tickets as they drive through.

But, hey, they are 'legal'. right? After all, there is a posted sign in plain view for all to see. Right? Yep. 35mph. There it is!


Never mind that the view along NE 36th (while not exactly 'breathtaking' per se), certainly has some beautiful homes along it's route that might attract the occasional drivers' attention (I especially like the white castle-hacienda-looking one on the south side) as well as an interesting golf course . About the only dangerous hazard one might encounter is the occasional unfortunate squirrel that couldn't quite make its decision of which side of the road it wanted to go and ended up under a tire.
Never mind that most folks have just gotten off the freeway and their foot just might still be a little heavier for a minute or two until they snap out of 'high speed mode' to where 35mph will actually begins to feel like 35mph and not like 10.

You will find no such leniency or empathy in Forest Park. Nope. Forget it.

Still..."the law is the law!" one might exclaim to me, claiming the supposed higher ground.

Well, here is one for you who might think that way:

Tell me; if you had a problem in your life....any kind of problem, and it was easily solvable, why wouldn't you solve it?

If it REALLY REALLY was a problem you TRULY and HONESTLY were concerned about, and could solve it, why wouldn't you?

Tell me.

Secondly, if you had this problem and tried out a solution and it proved to not solve the problem in a satisfactory manner, wouldn't you feel it to be prudent and responsible to try different methods until the problem was actually solved?

I think it would.

Let's take this one step further: Wouldn't you think that you, and only you, should be willing to accept the consequences, in FULL, of wilfully and purposely
prolonging a solution that proved ineffective?

Of course!

Now, think about this........if the elected/appointed officials of a small town had an issue that was supposedly of true concern to the safety and welfare of its citizenry, and had the power to actually amend the problem or at least lift a finger and try different solutions to solve the problem, and DIDN'T, shouldn't those officials be held accountable for negligence or dereliction of duty?

Darn right they should!

Not only that, shouldn't there be an inquiry as to WHY said officials were negligent in providing the maximum safety and security for their constituency?

Of course.

Shouldn't there be an investigation as to WHY the current alleged 'solution' to the issue is not a new one, but has been allowed to operate for years upon years upon years?

Of course.

And, shouldn't there be an inquiry as to the possible MOTIVES of purposely allowing an obviously faulty "solution" to remain active?

Naturally.


Then WHY are the citizens of Forest Park, supposedly OUR neighbours, turning a blind eye to what their government is doing in Forest Park?

(As a clue to the dense heads: When a town makes 40% of its operating expenses in the form of traffic violation revenue then that should be enough evidence to the citizens of that town that the particular 'solutions' the city officials are using are not working very well at all and need to be changed.)

If this supposed 'speeding epidemic' on N.E. 36th is REALLY the public safety issue the law enforcement there make it out to be, then why haven't the citizens of Forest Park confronted their elected leaders to demand trying other solutions until they find one that actually will work?

I say....perhaps they want to pretend to remain indifferent, because it's 'outside money' and a 'perfectly legal' way to extract money from people they don't want in their town anyway.

That's a cruel statement perhaps but that's what the evidence suggests, doesn't it?

Well? Doesn't it?

Look, WE ALL know the truth. Let's not try and play mind games here:

Let's be real. We all KNOW the government in Forest Park has a traffic ticket cash cow. Its no secret. We all know there are actually solutions out there to the real problem....(if there really IS one).

It could be as simple as an extra stop sign or two. That would cost, what, maybe a few hundred dollars a piece and would last for years, right?

But, apparently, the status quo thought line is not that.

I tell you what I think it is:

I think it is that the government feels that, by their actions, they are 'curbing' (no pun intended) the problem to a degree, and that this negligible improvement in public safety by making drivers nervous to go through Forest Park is justification enough (or provides just enough of a legal façade enough to hide behind) to continue stuffing their public coffers under guise of real law and true concern for their citizens..

Forest Park, Please wake up. Do what you have to do but please be strong and bold enough to break up the graft in your town! If you don't, then you are just as guilty as the people you put in power that perpetuate the gravy train.

Remember, MOST people that get a ticket in Forest Park are not criminals. We are just average people living average lives and drive reasonable and safe. We are not trying to break the law and sometimes just get distracted and might forget to let up on the accelerator or something when they go through a hilly area like your town. It's not intentional.

It's not fair that we, ordinary people, perhaps caught in a moment of distraction or weakness, should have to incur thousands of dollars of future higher insurance payments, a mark on their records or other long-term penalty because a town, instead of addressing a safety concern, decide to capitalize on it, and create an airtight legal loophole that enables them to stuff their bank accounts full of money.

I personally hope some lawyer reads this and wants to spearhead a class action suit against the City for negligence and conspiracy.

Perhaps then, we can put an end to the "Hazzard County" revenue scheme of
FOREST PARK.

---------------
Tim in Spencer


I will freely add your comments below. Just email them to the address below and title it "Forest Park opinion".

tim at blessa daught com
P.S. : It has been mentioned whether or not posting this story is a good idea since I have a pending ticket with Forest Park and concern has been expressed that they could possibly 'make it especially hard' on me for helping expose their wrongdoing.

My response is that I'm just an old vet that believes in the Constitution, the dignity of man, and the judgements of God and that governments are there to secure the rights and freedoms of the people......not use them to pad their retirement accounts. ;-)

Also, sometimes the greatest wars are not made with the sword, but the pen driven by one's righteous conscience.

Plus, if they 'retaliate' against this, then they truly are much sorrier than we all thought, aren't they?

As it is said, "You will know a tree by it's fruit".

Look, if I suffer from this, then my conscience is still clear. I have fought the good fight. I have stepped up to the plate and said, "This is WRONG!"

I might suffer from it, yes, but if I know that perhaps my efforts can make real changes and will prevent Forest Park from victimising someone, perhaps a poor single mom in East County that works three jobs to bring her children up 'decent like', then I have done my job.

If my actions have protected her or others from the 'vultures in waiting" that use the law to permit them to stake out, like ticks on a hiking trail, for the right opportunity to latch on to and suck a hundred dollars of sweat money off a person (who care's about the additional insurance costs from the points she will have to pay, right?)
then let my sacrifice be as it may.

Document made with Nvu

Here's a simple solution - fix your speedometer.

__________________
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind
Albert Einstein

I think that was tried already.

The $$$ to do so was worth more than the car, LOL

tee hee, my thoughts exactly. And while you're at it, add some freon to the AC.

Actually, the difference between a car going 35 and 50 doesn't seem all that obvious while driving, until a child chasing a ball darts out in front of you.

But, I do think it is wrong for the small town to fleece drivers in order to pad the city accounts.

But, if you're speeding, you are speeding.. Even adding 35 mph signs wouldn't change anything, many people just speed and hope they don't get caught.

If you weren't doing anything wrong and they pulled you over to ticket you to make extra money.. then that is emphatically wrong.

__________________
" You've Been Thunder Struck ! "

I think anyone doing 50 around children playing near the street, or even more than 5mph in certain circumstances certainly needs a ticket.

The AC eats freon for breakfast. This is one of those kind of cars that you don't mind leaving out in a parking lot all day. If it gets dinged or scratched, its ok.

LOL

If you think it is a southern type speed "trap," then there is one solution.

Go a different route.

I was a big supporter of the state law that would have put all speeding ticket proceeds over a certain percentage of a city's revenue back into the state's general fund. The Daily Oklahoman actually did a pretty good piece showing some local communities (like Arcadia) making around 70% of their city budgets from speeding tickets.

Too bad our legislature is dominated by rural interests.

__________________
It's a friendlier OKCTalk!

But was it work more than the price of the ticket?

I can see how it happened though. When you are coming off the freeway it seems like you are going slower than you really are because you have become used to the higher speeds. 50MPH seems like you are crawling along after going 65-70MPH. Its tough to judge speed accurately by "feel". I've got friends in Forest Park and have driven through there hundreds of times without incident. But, I've never done 50 through there. In any case it seems like he is just venting. Who wouldn't expect to get a ticket while going 50 in a 35?

__________________
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind
Albert Einstein

Perhaps Forest Park is a "Speed trap" on purpose to cut down on the amount of traffic that comes through?

Regardless, hope everyone has learned a lesson about driving through speed traps when your speedometer is broken.

http://www.speedtrap.org/speedtraps/...0Park&st=27505

most all small towns are like this, they have a quota.
the best was to avoid it is to stay clear of the town,or do 10mph under. It is all BS I got a ticket in Noble for backing out wrong, 135.00

Bryant along the western edge of Forest Park, south of 36th, is posted 30 mph.

I think venting can be a good thing sometimes although it usually helps the venter to have at least one person with a little empathy on the receiving end.

What makes this situation ventable in my opinion, is that it is the accusing party, proven by their actions over time as well as the witness of thousands of people to be running a legal graft operation, is partly responsible for the perpetuating the environment that makes that graft very easy and legaly airtight.

Soj

Yea noble is bad, they gave a guy a ticket at a 3way intersection with one stop sign, he turned left and the cop lit him up, the guy argued because it was late at night the cop had nothing better to do than write a ticket for no turn signal, guy said why bother when nobody was around, this was about 10 o'clock at night, in noble nobody is around.

Either way fix the speedo, go a different route, and pay the fine, you knew the speedo was broke, thats nobodys fault but your own, you were speeding or way too speeding doing 50 in a 35, and cop should have and has the right to pull you over. People speeding that fast is what casues wrecks. Its not that hard to fix a speedo, there are 3 things that can be wrong the cable is broke the part in the dash is broke, or the gear is the tranny that spins the speedo is broke, if you can repair yourself its not more than the car is worth.

Does anyone remember the "fines" scandal in Valley Brook a few years back? It turned out that the radar gun was off about 10 miles per hour---it read high.

Guess what! When it was all over, even though the city knew its radar was reading high, the city got to keep the money from the fines it raked in, but they had to make it right with the insurance companies of the drivers who were wrongly ticketed, so the insurance rates of the drivers would not be affected.

There are way too many towns that take in too much money from fines, and Forest Park has a reputation that keeps me out of the town's limits; I will go way out of my way to stay away. Valley Brook too; I do travel 59th occasionally, and I have been known to pass thru Valley Brook's part of 59th, but I do not like to one bit.

Maybe a class action suit is in order for Forest Park.

Soj

So you have proof that they are giving tickets which shouldn't be given? You were appraently going 50 in a 35, and have no speedometer reading to say otherwise.

__________________
It's a friendlier OKCTalk!

As I was coming home from class at Metro Tech the other night, there was a wreck on I-35, so I could not get on it; I took the access road heading toward NE 23rd street, so I could take that route home.

As I got to about NE 30th, there was a highway patrolman stopped at the intersection; not being familiar with the streets in the area, I stopped and asked him if one of the access roads went to 23rd.

In the conversation, he mentioned that I could go back to NE 36th and go east, but I mentioned that NE 36th would take me through Forest Park, and I do not go into Forest Park. Without further explanation, I will simply say that it was obvious that he knew why I do not go into Forest Park.

Edited to say: "By the way, I have not had a ticket since the early 1980's, and I do not recall being stopped for any type imfraction since that time. Well! That is except for the time I ventured into Forest Park some time in the past (I do not recall the time frame.) I was operating legally, but when stopped, the officer did not know that. I did not get a ticket there; however, it was the officer's attitude that convinced me that I would never knowingly go back into that city."

I don't have any hard proof no. But this isn't an issue of a ticket or not. On has to question why so many good drivers you talk to will have that one story about Forest Park. Many people avoid it. Its THAT bad!

The issue is that if there is a safety problem and the token solution isn't working, then the current solution needs to be re-assesed and other alternatives looked at. But they aren't not doing it. They are obviously making lots of money off the 'problem' and choose to jeapardize safety in lieu of the dollar. This is negligence!

There is a well established and documentable pattern of negligence on their part:

1. Excess traffic tickets, evidenced by the sheer volume of tickets given out, are evidence of negligence in that the city counsel is ignoring the fact that the ticketing system is not a working solution in these circumstances and that other methods should be employed but they are not doing it.

2. Visit the City Hall. You will park your car and see a sign with arrows pointing left to "police" and "business office" Business Office? In Forest Park? What Businesses?
As you as you walk inside, you will know. There is a glass teller window there with a place to write checks and a desk placque that says, "pay fines here" and, if you look through the window, you will see a desk with piles and piles of traffic tickets.
On the back wall, almost mockingly, you will see a coat hanger...the kind you get from the cleaners...with a sign on it that says. "We love our customers".

I bet they do.

No shame even. It's sad.


Not only that, places similar to the main ticket areas in Forest Park have higher speed limits. One would have to view the actual engineering survey on this, but I betcha they have it made the speed limit lower than the engineering survey. Should this be true, this is also evidence of speedtrapping.

Soj

I worked for Twin Hills for a summer after high school...the very first day my boss told me about the speed trap...hard for an 18 yr old to ever go at or below the speed limit, but I crawled out of there until I hit I-35

Go out late one night in black op's and hammer a big sign saying speed trap ahead, that will fix them.

LOL Don't tempt me. With MY luck I would get a ticket for littering, posting a sign without a permit, public nuisance and not having not having reflector stripes on my ninja suit at night.

SOj

In my opinion... I'm not sure where to start in regards to your post Tim. I have to agree with others when I say if you don't want a ticket then don't speed and by all means get your speedometer fixed. You have NOTHING to complain about in my opinion.

In your first few sentences you stated "I don't know. I don't think it (I) was. My mind was elsewhere as I took the 'back way' to my home in Spencer." in referring to your speeding. It's people like you that cause accidents because they aren't paying attention when they are driving through school zones and hit children in the cross walks. It's your duty as a driver to make sure your vehicle is in the condition it is suppose to be before driving i.e. speedometer working etc. I'm sure you have never hit a child before but the point being is that the speed limits are there for a reason. If you don't speed then chances are you will not get a speeding ticket..it's really that simple.

I'm sure the city does make alot of money on traffic tickets but given the city has no businesses other than a country club and even less revenue coming from other sources then I can see where 40% seems high. Nonetheless if people were not speeding then that percentage would be even lower don't you think? Really it's not much of a trap since it is posted along the roads. I would say a trap would constitute being stopped for speeding if the speed limit was not posted at any point along a roadway or if you were going 36-35 which you were not. Even Hazard County had speed limit signs.

I think most of your posting is clouding the issue at hand which is simple to understand as I stated above. You were speeding! It's not as if they "trapped" you and forced you to speed come on! Do you expect a road that has speeders to have stop signs every 100ft? I drive through OKC,The Village and Nichols Hills to get to my house on a residential street and it's 25mph all the way through. As I travel through 3 towns/ cities, I have never been stopped for speeding because I DO NOT speed through that area knowing it is patrolled well by those agencies and of course it's a residential area with children playing all the time. WOW!! That is a solution to your problem I'm thinking.

Best regards in your future with the broken speedometer and driving with the flow of traffic. Fortunately it's almost winter and you won't need the A/C any time soon!