OKCTalk  

Go Back   OKCTalk > Oklahoma City Forum Central > OKC Underground

OKC Underground Forum for general conversation, share interests, have a laugh or discuss anything not related to any of the other forums above or below.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:07 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Total Posts: 951
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadrax View Post
Mouseland. Stop voting for cats!
(A fable by Clare Gillis, as retold by Tommy Douglas)
I loved it! It's true too. I hold no hope for monumental change, but I actually hope for fundamental change. I know - he's still a "cat," but I honestly believe he holds out more hope for a new course than any "cat," in decades.

If I had my way, we'd have a Social Democratic party resembling the SD parties of Europe and Canada. That's not going to happen in America.

Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:14 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by solitude View Post

At least the social spending leaves something to show for it.
Like more and more people becoming dependent on the government that ends up being votes for those who want people to become more dependent on the government.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:30 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
The last thirty years have proven this to be demonstrably false.
Not true.

When Reagan convinced congress to cut taxes the economy sky rocketed. A certain party that ruled the House of Reps, where ALL spending is created, couldn't stand the thought that he was right. The pain of the Carter years were finally over. Everybody benefited. It was awful so the House created spending bills of the likes no one had seen and tried to blame everything on Reagan for the big spending party.

George Sr. could have continued the great economy but instead caved. Clinton did little to boost the economy. He continued the status quo of Bush Sr.'s cave. George W's cuts have been very positive. My meager middle class life has improved.

We need more tax cuts for everybody including the rich. After all they own businesses and hire musicians for their parties. A lot of less government would be nice, too.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:34 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Total Posts: 951
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
Like more and more people becoming dependent on the government that ends up being votes for those who want people to become more dependent on the government.
No, like your parents or grandparents receiving Medicare for health care and Social Security being there as expected. Like safety net programs for people who have no health insurance (as minimal as it is), like children receiving hot lunches in our schools, like helping rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and make our highways and bridges safe, like having a FDA that protects our food and drug supply.

All rabid rightwingers see are handouts to "welfare queens" when far more money is handed out to rich men in suits who feed at the trough of the federal government. It's not a matter of the government spending money - it's a matter of who they're spending it on. Corporate welfare far outweighs the kind of U.S. assistance we define as "welfare." AFDP (Aid To Families with Dependant Children) ended in 1996 when Bill Clinton signed welfare reform into law. The replacement, Temporary Assistance To Needy Families, is welfare-to-work and has a five-year lifetime limit......but billions continue to flow into corporate coffers from you and me. That's the kind of dependance I don't like!
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:37 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Total Posts: 951
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
Not true.....It was awful so the House created spending bills of the likes no one had seen and tried to blame everything on Reagan for the big spending party.
Not true. Check your facts. The Reagan administration never offered up a balanced budget to the Congress. In fact, in each of Reagan's years when Democrats controlled Congress, the final budget allocation (total spending) was LESS than President Reagan had requested. That old dog won't hunt.
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 01:55 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Total Posts: 358
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

I don't like welfare any more than anyone else.. but not that much is spent on real welfare (food stamps, etc). Corporate welfare hurts competition which kills jobs and makes people more dependent on government assistance. Try competing with a company that receives tax dollars, you can't.

Tax cuts are stupid. I put my fingers in my ears and scream, "LALALALA!" when people talk about them. I would prefer they raise taxes high enough to pay off our debts, stop inflating money, and stop borrowing money. Make people pay the bill up front and they will know what is going on. The money comes from somewhere and you have they have to stop spending it before they can stop taxing us directly OR indirectly.

* Through Sematech, a consortium of very large U.S. computer microchip producers, the Pentagon provides nearly $100 million a year of support to the industry. But of the more than 200 chipmakers in the United States, only the 14 largest, including Intel and National Semiconductor, receive federal support from Sematech. Originally designed to help U.S. firms compete against foreign competition, Sematech now subsidizes the largest producers to help fend off smaller domestic competition.

* An estimated 40 percent of the $1.4 billion sugar price support program benefits the largest 1 percent of sugar farms. The 33 largest sugar cane plantations each receive more than $1 million.

* Through the Rural Electrification Administration and the federal power marketing administrations, the federal government provides some $2 billion in subsidies each year to large and profitable electric utility cooperatives, such as ALLTEL, which had sales of $2.3 billion last year. Federally subsidized electricity holds down the costs of running ski resorts in Aspen, Colorado, five-star hotels in Hilton Head, South Carolina, and gambling casinos in Las Vegas, Nevada.

* Last year the Forest Service spent $140 million building roads in national forests, thus subsidizing the removal of timber from federal lands by multi-million-dollar timber companies. Over the past 20 years the Forest Service has built 340,000 miles of roads -- more than eight times the length of the interstate highway system -- primarily for the benefit of logging companies.

* The Department of Agriculture Market Promotion Program spends $110 million per year underwriting the cost of advertising American products abroad. In 1991 American taxpayers spent $2.9 million advertising Pillsbury muffins and pies, $10 million promoting Sunkist oranges, $465,000 advertising McDonald's Chicken McNuggets, $1.2 million boosting the international sales of American Legend mink coats, and $2.5 million extolling the virtues of Dole pineapples, nuts, and prunes.

* Last year a House of Representatives investigative team discovered that federal environmental cleanup and defense contractors had been milking federal taxpayers for millions of dollars in entertainment, recreation, and party expenses. Martin Marietta Corporation charged the Pentagon $263,000 for a Smokey Robinson concert, $20,000 for the purchase of golf balls, and $7,500 for a 1993 office Christmas party. Ecology and Environment, Inc., of Lancaster, New York, spent $243,000 of funds designated for environmental cleanup on "employee morale" and $37,000 on tennis lessons, bike races, golf tournaments, and other entertainment. Such activities give new meaning to the term "corporate welfare."
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 09:48 AM
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Total Posts: 509
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Welfare spending accounts for a whopping 1 percent of the US Budget. Most welfare recipients stay on welfare for a year and then they're off, hardly the culture of dependency described in popular myth.

Most of the poor in this country are working poor: people working more than one job, often without any health insurance. The myth of the "lazy" poor has been perpetuated to dismantle social programs.

Obama is proposing a tax cut for everyone making less than $250,000, and a slight tax increase for everyone above. The tax increase he proposes is the same tax we had under Clinton, which, despite the poison rhetoric against it in 1993 when it was enacted, did not stifle growth.

The Republicans in Congress did their part during the 90s to thwart spending. For that they deserve credit as well (I'm trying to be fair here!). Then, when they took the White House and had both houses of Congress, they spent like drunken sailors -- and Bush didn't veto a single one of their spending bills!

I agree we need to be more fiscally responsible, and as a Democrat, I will hold leaders of my own party accountable that they restore fiscal sanity to our government. If they don't, the Republicans will be taking over in four years.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 09:57 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Total Posts: 299
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
Here's a link to my website that has links to where the money goes.

Whatever Comes to Mind...

************************************************** *************
$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. FAIR: Immigration and Welfare

$2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as foodstamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Center for Immigration Studies

$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Center for Immigration Studies

$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ldt.0.html

$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
CNN.com - Transcripts

$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
CNN.com - Transcripts

$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens. CNN.com - Transcripts
************************************************** ************

Do they generate any economic benefit to offset these expenses?
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:01 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Total Posts: 299
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Prunepicker, I love that one of your heroes is Ann Coulter. What did she do to earn that rare designation, rescue you from a burning building?
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:23 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by solitude View Post
Not true. Check your facts. The Reagan administration never offered up a balanced budget to the Congress. In fact, in each of Reagan's years when Democrats controlled Congress, the final budget allocation (total spending) was LESS than President Reagan had requested. That old dog won't hunt.
I've checked facts. There was no need to submit a balanced budget because there was more than enough money generated by the revenue from the tax cuts, to balance the budget.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 10:29 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Total Posts: 25
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

my great grandfather was an illegal alien, how about yours?
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2008, 12:01 PM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Total Posts: 536
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

My great grand father was the son of a legal immigrant who came from Denmark at the Port of Galveston. They settled in New Braunfels, Texas. I had other great grandfathers but I don't know anything about them.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 05:55 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Total Posts: 2,377
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

I' WISH my great grandfather was an illegal alien...Instead of being the red blooded American killer that he was.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 05:58 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Total Posts: 2,377
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

mmonroe...You want to keep yourself up at night?

Read for 30 minutes on how bad the Social Security and Medicare programs are going to completely SCREW us.

Or start going to bed listening to Rosetta Stone's Chinese lessons.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 08:59 AM
mmonroe's Avatar
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Total Posts: 833
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

MMM.. hostility. I like it.

I've already started saving for retirement, and i'm only 21.
Reply With Quote
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 09:58 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Total Posts: 299
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Greenspan weighs in on recession:

Economy on brink of recession, Greenspan says: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:01 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonroe View Post
MMM.. hostility. I like it.

I've already started saving for retirement, and i'm only 21.
How dare you take personal responsibility!
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:12 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsucougz View Post
The stages of the housing debacle...

1. The people aren't getting loans because they can't pay them back.

2. The banks must give these people loans. It's only fair.

3. Oh My! The loan payments aren't being made. Why? Some evil entity (read conspiracy) must be behind this.

4. We must bail them out.

5. The banks must give these people loans. It's only fair.
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:48 AM
mmonroe's Avatar
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Total Posts: 833
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
How dare you take personal responsibility!
I pay more into my savings out of each paycheck than I do in taxes on the paycheck. Once I hit 100k, then i'll look into some investment bond or something. At the moment, i'm only seeing that reach in another 9 years.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:52 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Total Posts: 358
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Once you hit $100k, that $100k will be worth $5
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmonroe View Post
I pay more into my savings out of each paycheck than I do in taxes on the paycheck. Once I hit 100k, then i'll look into some investment bond or something. At the moment, i'm only seeing that reach in another 9 years.
Look into mutual funds and bonds now. We've been using that in our IRA and have been very happy. You'll hit 100K faster.

Rule of 72. Divide 72 by the interest rate and that's how many years it takes to double your money.
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 06:17 PM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Total Posts: 299
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
The stages of the housing debacle...

1. The people aren't getting loans because they can't pay them back.

2. The banks must give these people loans. It's only fair.

3. Oh My! The loan payments aren't being made. Why? Some evil entity (read conspiracy) must be behind this.

4. We must bail them out.

5. The banks must give these people loans. It's only fair.
uh... ok.
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 07:08 PM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by wsucougz View Post
uh... ok.
That was supposed to be a new post.
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:32 PM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Total Posts: 654
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prunepicker View Post
Not true.

When Reagan convinced congress to cut taxes the economy sky rocketed. A certain party that ruled the House of Reps, where ALL spending is created, couldn't stand the thought that he was right. The pain of the Carter years were finally over. Everybody benefited. It was awful so the House created spending bills of the likes no one had seen and tried to blame everything on Reagan for the big spending party.

George Sr. could have continued the great economy but instead caved. Clinton did little to boost the economy. He continued the status quo of Bush Sr.'s cave. George W's cuts have been very positive. My meager middle class life has improved.

We need more tax cuts for everybody including the rich. After all they own businesses and hire musicians for their parties. A lot of less government would be nice, too.
So the Fed printing up craploads of money at the start of the 1980s to try and reduce skyrocketing interest rates had nothing to do with it at all? It was all supply-side economics?

The ensuing debt run-up and runaway inflation of that decade, is that anything to be concerned about?

I get a little upset with blanket statements like 'cut taxes and all will be well.' The problems we face are much, much more complicated than the media cares to explore. Causality is much more complicated than A -> B.

In some circumstances I agree, tax cuts are beneficial. But right now that would be the absolute worst thing one could possibly due because it would increase our debt and effectively put more money in circulation. Remember supply and demand. If you increase the supply of dollars you will weaken its demand. That will cause the dollar to further devalue, and will cause things like the price of oil which we import to skyrocket further. This will lead to a chain reaction that continues to drive inflation up.

I'm sick to death of our modern political talking heads boiling everything down to good vs. evil or right vs. wrong. It is not that simple.
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:51 PM
Participating Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Total Posts: 333
Default Re: Bedtime Thoughts [1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dismayed View Post
So the Fed printing up craploads of money at the start of the 1980s to try and reduce skyrocketing interest rates had nothing to do with it at all? It was all supply-side economics?
Yes, it was supply side economics.

Cutting taxes works every time. History has proved it.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on Obama's Muslim background. metro Political Arena 90 06-23-2008 10:38 AM
Thoughts on Iran's president visiting NYC? metro Political Arena 6 09-28-2007 12:27 PM
Thoughts on the Flood Coverage soonerliberal Art/Books/Film/TV/Radio 13 08-22-2007 12:02 PM
minutemen and your thoughts? Deni The Poll Vault 14 03-26-2007 02:39 AM
Thoughts on a Sister City of OKC? Sooner&RiceGrad OKC Metro Area Talk 54 04-19-2005 08:18 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:31 AM.


Copyright OKCTalk.com © 2004 - 2007