And what balance of the remaining 500sq. is populated. Still lots of people to protect with very little manpower I should say.

We do? 100 sq miles of EMPTY land? Where? And it's no biggie? Mmm Well if your door is getting kicked in and your at one end and an officer is at the other i beg to differ. But where is the 100 square miles of totally empty land? You've told everyone how SMART you are so enlighten me. LOl

100sq miles? Who posted that, Joan PeterS???

Wrong on the political affect, this will be very important in upcoming elections, especially the Mayor's race. Unfortunately some of the other's that might run against Cornett are sitting pretty close to him on the horseshoe.

So, who are you going to run for mayor? Brian Walters?

__________________
Doug
http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtownOKC.htm
http://www.dougloudenback.com/oklahomacity.htm
http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/

No, I thought I might vote for Humpreys if he could come out of retirement because of his squeaky clean past. Oh I sorry, I forgot he is the co-treasurer of Maps 3, the last person I would trust with any money.

I don't think that was the suggestion, but is it your opinion that Mr Walters couldn't do as good or a better job as Mayor?

Absolutely. But, not a problem. He would have absolutely no chance of being elected, possibly not even to a second term in his own ward.

__________________
Doug
http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtownOKC.htm
http://www.dougloudenback.com/oklahomacity.htm
http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/

you brought up a very god point with 100sq miles orwhatever that 1 police oficer has to cover. they may not ne densly populated bu do you remember what happened in march of this year? remember those wildfires that destroyed numerous homes in 3 cities. did they ever say how many homes where lost in okc areas? i cant remember that fact but did you see the amount of fire equipment and personal that was out there protecting the less populated part of the city just because there was a need and citizen who needed help. lots of them. not only was that going on but inside the city they had many house fres along with the regular medical calls. I promise that even the police will respond out there in numbers when something happenes. so less force on both fire and police hurt the general good of the poeple.

both departments are there for your own good and to protect you and serve you. why cant you think that maybe we should help those guys whim day in day out help us with any question of problem we have. Both department members realize that maps 3 projects would be great and would vote for it if things were different like what man people have ben saying.

Citizens neither department really asks for much from their ctizens. sure you might see a fireman holding a boot collecting money but 100% of that man goes to jerry's kids. it does not go into the department.

Police and fire are asking for you guys to think of them and stand with them as they serve you, stand with them to show the city that the citizens care about our police and fire and that the city needs to look at what the city NEEDS rather than wants. I am personally getting kind of bored with this forum because it is the same arguments over and over. I just ask that you stand with us on this issue and help the people who are there to help you 24/7 rain or shine.

like other workers in the nation most of the firemen who are at risk for getting thier jobs cut have families to support. sure people lose their jobs but why should they lose it so that a park and other wants of certain high paying people want to have but dont need it. i am not asing sympathy just saying, anyone who loses thier jb i feel sorry for, so why are you risking families to be hurting because we want to build a park.
like others said the use tax runs out june 31 2011 with those 10 "promised" and not even mentioning the amount of people that are possibly going to retire in jan.

Once again look out for those people that look out for you and vote no this time.

Since you put this comment on two separate threads, I'm going to respond twice, especially since this comment was printed in the Gazette, which tends to give it legitimacy.

I noticed the letter stating that fact in the Oklahoma Gazette. It wasn't clear precisely what was being referred to, as the numbers don't add up. Oklahoma City is 622 square miles in size, and we have 1,029 police officers. That comes out to a figure of 1 police offer per .55 square mile. Now, obviously people have to have time off. Not counting vacations, there are about 4 40 hour shifts a week, which brings the math up to 1 police officer per 2.3 square miles or so. I'm not going to do the math to factor in vacations, but it probably puts you up, at most, to 1 officer per 4 square miles. Even if you had half of your officers in administrative positions, we're talking one officer per 8 square miles.

For one officer to have to cover 100 square miles, we'd have to have a force of about 35 officers or so, or 70 if half were administrative.

BETTS

Are you also factoring in things like the gang unit, needed specifically in certain areas of town? How about SWAT? Detectives? How about long term injuries, cops and firemen get hurt saving stuff, or get ill with things that everyone is susceptible to. Factor some more, you'll probably get close.

Your available police personnel drops from 1,029 to 35 by factoring in other duties? I don't know how many gang officers there are, but whatever part of the city they are patrolling needs to be cut out of the available land calculations, if they are out on the street. If they're not, what are they doing? And are SWAT officers sitting around all the time waiting for a SWAT incident? What are the statistics on that? Over 50% of the officers are detectives and administrators? If that's the case, maybe your department is top heavy. In my department, we do both administration and work in our profession. As far as long-term injuries are concerned, what percentage are out on administrative leave? I cannot imagine it's that high, as much of your personnel is young, and there aren't that many people getting shot on the job, or we'd be hearing about it all the time. There has to be data showing how many police offers are patrolling, and I suspect it's more than 35, but if I'm wrong, I'd love to see the data.

The issue is that at certain times PD numbers drop to a point where one officer may patrol over 100 sq. I can't speak to the platoon sizes at PD, but 1029 officers is the total and as you stated that puts uniformed personnel at around 400. Those of course are spread about in shifts.

Emergencies are indiscriminant in their occurrence, right? Emergencies could care less when staffing is available. Would you drive your car down the road without a seatbelt because it wasn't rush hour and the possiblity of an accident was minimal? I hope not Betts. Why then do you want to cut the city's safety belt at anytime, high call volume or low?

As to doing administrative work and "your jobs," its an unfair comparison. Your job is probably not quite as labor intensive as that of a cop/detective. Easy Betts, I said probably not.

Betts...boy are you misinformed on how staffing works. There are only a handful of officers answering calls for service. There are fewer Officers answering calls for service NOW then in 1989! That means when you call 911 the call is only able to be answered by Patrol Officers. Due to the many responsibilities a Police Department has their are only a few PATROL Officers. I will restate that I know for a fact some shifts their were only 9 Police Officers to start a shift for the entire South Side of Oklahoma City. That's over 300 square miles. If a shooting comes out at a club that usually takes 4-7 Police officers for witnesses, crowd control, scene protection traffic control etc...
Then another division has to start taking calls to pick up the slack. Then you've spread another division thin. It's not that hard to understand and unfortunately it happens almost weekly if not daily..I wish that wasn't the situation, but it is. I encourage you to visit a local briefing station and ask some questions about Manpower.

If they're not, what are they doing? And are SWAT officers sitting around all the time waiting for a SWAT incident? What are the statistics on that? Over 50% of the officers are detectives and administrators? If that's the case, maybe your department is top heavy.
Because of MANPOWER. SWAT officers have never been full time like most large cities. SWAT officers are working every night taking calls. If you are on this specialized unit you can't even move from PATROL or you give up your position. I'm not sure if we are top heavy. Those assignments Officers per Supervisor are in accordance with what every other Police Department is doing. ONE Detective is currently being assigned 8-20 cases per DAY. ONE DETECTIVE. Those cases come in everyday. Do the Math... They are currently about 2-3 Months behind. That means make a report today and the Detective won't be able even to review it until 2010! Any subjects arrested take priority. If working that case takes two days (which is quick), then that's what they have to do. All other cases that are just reports get pushed further behind.

You can easily see why our Property Crimes Theft etc...beat most cities our size. They go unsolved and there is no police patrol to curb any of it. They do their deeds as police officers drive by from one call to another...."Big League City"....DON't THINK SO!!

All very interesting posts indeed.

And none of them have anything to do with MAPS 3.

I just found out from a friend that the 4' x 6' Not This Maps sign that I put up on the fence of a elderly handicapped woman on SW 104th has been sprayed painted with a yes. This just reinforceds why I have never cared for politicians, because they bring the worst out in everyone. It would be nice if political votes could be decided with a couple hour long televised debates to state and defend your reasons, instead all the ugly dirty truths and untruths. I am sorry if I have offended anyone at anytime and from now, I am just going to inform voters on what I know are facts and let them decide for themselves. I had a neighbor that I have been friends with for many years throw a couple F bombs at me just for asking him what he thought about Maps 3. My current thoughts are that whatever the decision is, is meant to be. I am ready for this to be done with so that everyone can move on. Also remember, for or against - please pickup all the signs once the election is over with.

You lost me on this one...Sorry if I missed it but how many patrol officers per shift for those 622 square miles?

I can only spoon feed you so much flinty...Added venues will NO DOUBT bring more crime and reports. Does any empty bar on it's own require police service? not usually unless it's vandalized or burglarized. Add 100-300 drunk people to it nightly and of course it does. inside the bar outside the bar ..DUI's ..car burglary's ..assaults, rapes..etc...

The idea that more building and venues ...park, convention center doesn't require additional police support is ....Wake up.. Need I read it to you very slowly?

However, those 100 to 300 people are somewhere in Oklahoma City at any given point in time, and have to be supervised, if they are the type that typically require supervision. Unless creating a new bar or park causes people to spontaneously generate out of thin air, the number of officers per capita is the same. The kind of people who go to a bar are going to go whether it's a new one or an old one, and so I fail to see how MAPS is going to require an increase in police protection required, at least until all projects are up and running, and even then, only if population density increases.

Yes, we would like to think that MAPS will help increase the population of Oklahoma City, but it won't happen overnight. So, on December 9th, the need for officers will be remarkably similar to what it is on December 8th, whether MAPS passes or not. It may not be the number of officers you'd like to have, but the failure of MAPs isn't going to spontaneously generate police officers either.

I'd love to see stats on how many crimes are related to bar activity per night. Especially the assault and rape numbers.

Thanks for being patient with me. I am certain if I were blessed with your greater intellect, heroic abilities, and superior integrity that I would be able to apprehend your argument.

I'll go easy on you. I don't know if my job is a labor intensive as a cop, although I can guarantee you I'm on my feet more, unless you have some that still walk a beat. Right now, I'm in the midst of a 15 day, 24 hours a day shift. I have absolutely no time during those 15 days when I'm not at least sitting here holding a phone and waiting for it to ring. I've got a bit of time that I have to spend on the computer, and I'll confess I multitask a bit and post here. But my phone can and does ring virtually every night of those 15 days, sometimes on the hour or half hour. Then, during the day, I go in to work and walk or stand at least half of the 10 to 12 hours I spend there for the entire 15 days. After that, I go to the easier part of my job for 2 to 4 weeks when I'm only infrequently on call and only have to work 8 to 9 hours a day, no weekends, and then it's back to the 15 day stint again. No overtime for me, either.

That's why I have some trouble feeling sorry for people who want to hire more people so they can work less, and who get paid overtime. I do have a lot of empathy for people who get their vacation cancelled with little to no notice, and if I were the fire chief, I can guarantee you it wouldn't happen. I'd go work their shifts for them, and call all the news media to come take a look.

Come on just "joshin on you a little"...

So after Humphries campaign, run by Pat McFerron and CMA Strategies was completely destroyed...if MAPS 3 tanks, as he says it is, does he ever work in this town again? And if so, why?

Betts

This work of which you speak sounds truly hideous. Long hours are terrible, and those of us who work them can testify. I will not contest the difficulties of your job, but of all people you should understand the implications of safely performing a job that necessitates safety at all times, with less manpower than needed. Again, this is a little about days off, a lot about safety. At any rate, I hope that you sleep deeply, and fast, when you do.