Cities down in Texas, like Woodlands and Sugar Land, both in Houston, have been planning these glitzy city centre's, and I think it is time for Edmond, and maybe even Norman to build one.

http://www.ci.sugar-land.tx.us/townsquare.htm

Like this...

I'm hoping that's what'll occur on the OU property east of I-35 north of Robinson. But not for downtown Edmond. If you want great downtown development that's urban, look no farther than Deep Deuce and "north" Bricktown -- they've worked with what's already there and made it much better. I'm not that familiar with Edmond, but if developers had merged the retail of Spring Creek Plaza with downtown and added some public spaces and housing, you'd have a more authentic downtown than these instant places.

Spring Creek and old downtown are quite a ways apart.

UCO does plan on pushing for the development of its own "campus corner" sometime in the future. Maybe something like this could happen near campus?

A school of 16,000 students virtually assures that housing and restaurants will be filled.

Downtown Edmond is probably too far away from UCO to create a continuous town center area, but something close to campus would be a plus, possibly south or west of campus. Seems like the restaurants and stores along University Drive have always created somewhat of a campus corner feel, although much more retail and restaurant development needs to occur along this stretch. The university needs to buy up some of this property and sell it for the purpose of creating such a stretch development. A few years ago, UCO purchased the Dominos Pizza on University Drive, but they replaced it with a parking lot. I would've liked to have seen them sell it to another restaurant.

I didn't mean physically. If a small downtown can bring national retail to complement the local stores, in a nonboxy setting, that is no small feat.

It depends on the restaurant. I heard there was talk of another Eskimo Joe's going in there. The trouble with a bar type restaurant is that there are so many churches in the area. Edmond city ordinances require bars to be so far away from churches. In this case, I think the church that queered the deal was a Bah'aii Church or something like that.

Maybe they'll have better luck adding a bar or two over near the Ramada on the east side of the property. It's far enough away from the churches.

Too far away from the residential foot traffic. It's kind of a dumb city ordinance in my opinion. A little too 1917 for my tastes. I read the Edmond Municipal Code once. There are some strange ordinances regarding bars and pool halls. I seem to recall that you're supposed to be able to see the bar from the sidewalk where bars are concerned. Children under 13 are not allowed in pool halls, things of that nature.

Anyone want to offer the Bah'aii Church some money for their building? Maybe UCO could. That's a good way to get them outta there.

What is a bah'aii church?

Wouldn't matter. There's that First Christian Church on the corner, the mosque (the white building), the Christ Scientist Library on Boulevard and Edwards, the Episcopal Church accross from the BSU, I'm not sure how they categorize that Morman Student Center.

Why do we need an ordinance about bars being next to churches? What is the point of that?

Of course, I'm Catholic. I've had beers with the priest in the rectory following church functions

Sure it wasn't grape juice?

Excellent question. I'm not sure there's a good answer to it, although I'm sure churches would beg to differ.

Well, unless we want the French Quarter in OKC, there is an obvious answer. Speaking of Mardi Gras...

Unless grape juice comes in a silver can, fizzes and tastes like beer, no.

Never go to that. Sugar Bowl was great, but the Mardi Gras crowd is horrible.

New Orleans is a filthy, filthy city.

I was just joking.

Pretend this is an edit, firefox is acting up again: What I meant was that French Quarter, while home to excelant night life, has churches next to bars. And we don't want to become another French Quarter, do we?

The French Quarter is something that could never occur in OKC. In fact, in the French Quarter, proper, no, I cannot think of but one case where that occurs, and that is in a centuries old Church.

Now, outside the French Quarter, on the outskirts, there are several churches.

As far as Edmond becoming the French quarter...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAH

okay, I'm done.

Well, my point is not to be logomached the hell out of, it's fairly simple, and has some meaning. Bars and churches don't go together,

Why?

Do they operate during the same hours?

Nope.

Are they attended by the same people? Usually not.

***

How about this? I can't operate a bar, but I can have a video store with an adult section next door to a church.

I fail to see the connection. Does God condemn beer?

The night life will not happen in Edmond. If it does, night life will be slow in the making. Since I moved from Edmond to Oklahoma City, I have seen quite a transition in Edmond with all the new restaurants, and a more upscale feel to a high-income suburb. For years, Edmond was a quiet money-making bedroom community. That has changed, as Edmond reflects the high per capita income more so than it did years ago.

Here's what hasn't changed. Too many Edmond police officers with too little to do. Many officers resort to hounding teenagers, and Municipal Judge Mike Synar will continue throwing the book at teens who break the curfew law, even if they are not trouble-makers. There aren't any nice night clubs in Edmond, and even with UCO I doubt any pubs, micro-breweries or night clubs will want to put money in a town that allows too many cop traps. It wouldn't be surprising if Edmond police officers began hounding college students as well, even those over 21.

They already do. My firm is representing a guy who was over 21 and had a run in with Edmond cops. I can't really get specific, but let's just say that we have a pretty good civil rights case against Edmond. Their officers are thugs. They really pick on kids. Go down and watch the municipal docket there and try to make a case for me that this is not the case. If you are successful, you win a cookie

It's still a very 'small town' police force unfortunately.

I think, however, that a 'strip' near UCO could really work. Something within walking distance of campus would certainly go a long ways as far as keeping drunk drivers off of the street. As far as UCO goes, what's good for UCO is good for Edmond. Edmond needs to remember who's buttering their bread. A lot of Edmond residents attend the school. Many of Edmond's best jobs are with the school. The school means millions upon millions of dollars to the Edmond economy. Not to mention the fact that Roger Webb, UCO's President and his staff have been aggressively trying to lure Major League Soccer to UCO's stadium.

That being said, I do think UCO is quite aware of the situation. A 'strip' somewhere near the stadium could do quite well. There is a night life in Edmond. You just have to look a little harder than most places. Currently, all they have are a few dive bars -- Hudson's, Wolf Trap, Lumpies. I've heard talk of an Eskimo Joe's locating near campus.

You earlier asked if god has a problem w/ beer, and not w/ adult video's etc. I am not going to run into the schpeel of my interpretation of the Good Book, but I want to remark that such things are already illegal in the State of Oklahoma. Now, a video store w/ an adult section is entirely differant. These places attract an entirely differant crowd, and should be moved away from churches out of respect.

Well, Blockbuster at 2nd and Broadway is almost across the street from the First Christian Church at 2nd & Boulevard. They do carry plenty of films that are of erm.. questionable suitability for viewing by children.

Of course, I don't think sex, nudity, etc. are things that are necessarily 'of the devil' either.

I still fail to see how having a bar next to a church is 'disrespectful'. What things are illegal in the state of Oklahoma? Adult videos? Drinking beer?

Just so you know, adult videos aren't exactly illegal. Just adult videos containing certain acts are illegal here. However, they are still readily available at the KT Video Store right across the border. I hear they have tatoos that way as well.


... ah yes.. tatoos.. yet another thing that this state seems to believe is 'of the devil'.

If it weren't for some dumb 14 year old back in '42 or so getting all liquored up and tatooed at an army base, we'd still be able to put all the Nascar numbers we wanted to on our arms..