Can OKC be the next “Music Town?”
November 18th, 2008
Journal Record

The question that hung in the air today 24 stories above OKC at the swanky Beacon Club was, can Oklahoma City be a music town – in the vain of other greats such as Seattle, Nashville and Austin?

According to the panel at today’s Chamber-sponsored Breaking Through event, the answer is “yes we can!”

On the panel were Scott Booker, manager of the Flaming Lips and Executive Director of the Academy of Contemporary Music at the University of Central Oklahoma, Director of Oklahoma Film and Music Office Jill Simpson, Dean of Music at Oklahoma City University Mark Parker, and Jay Shanker, entertainment lawyer with McAfee and Taft.

All were there to discuss what this town can do to cultivate our future local musical talent (our next Flaming Lips, American Rejects, JJ. Cale, Roy Clark, Vince Gill, Leon Russell, Tony Keith or Garth Brooks) so that when they make the “big time,” they don’t leave our area.

Jill Simpson spoke of the Oklahoma Film and Music’s efforts to incubate music and film projects in the metro by proposing tax breaks and financial incentives to those who do their creative business here. Simpson said this would create jobs, draw in musical mentors for young talent and re-characterize our city as a creative hub – conveniently located between both coasts.

They also made a pitch for the soon-to-come Academy for Contemporary Music at UCO in Bricktown. Here, students will be able to learn not just riffs and stage presence, but the nuts-and-bolts skills that it takes to successfully make a move from the garage into the music industry.

Check out the Kelley Chambers’ story in the Journal Record for the full scoop.

No offense intended to any of our fine DJs, but our music scene has too damn many wannabe DJs and too damn many cover bands. I think that's mostly a result of demand though.

Step one will be to somehow influence (improve) the city's taste in music as a whole. Does that start with new independent radio stations? Can that be profitable? Does it start with brilliant marketing? I'm just a guy who sees problems here... solutions are very evasive.

I think Tulsa has a better shot at it than OKC. OKC doesn't seem to have enough mid-range venues.

I agree with this, but its not the venues that are holding this city back. Its music education in our schools.

When public schools invest more in their music programs, instead of depending on KFOR to provide donated instruments, then we can seriously consider becoming a music town.

Yes it can, but it won't happen overnight.

There's nothing wrong with cover bands or the amount of them. The idea is to encourage more local talent to write and perform their own music.
Improving tastes in music is very subjective, what I think is good, you may not.
It starts with supporting what music venues we have here in OKC and expanding on that. Austin has an independent radio station that supports local music.

It's not just mid-range venues, it's all sizes that OKC is lacking in. Go to Austin and look around, almost every bar in the city has live music in it more than one night a week.

I didn't mean to imply that it was the only thing holding us back. It's just my pet peeve.

My answer would be "no".

Step one will be to somehow influence (improve) the city's taste in music as a whole. Does that start with new independent radio stations? Can that be profitable?

There won't be any independent radio stations in the near future. Most are mortgaged to their eyeballs (and this credit crunch isn't helping), therefore cost cutting and maximizing profit is critical. All major stations in OKC are basically owned by 3 corporations. Citadel, Clear Channel & Renda Broadcasting.

We discussed it in another thread a while back, but a venue like Cains is sorely needed here in OKC.

Tulsa is a few steps ahead of us as a "music town" with this venue, and events like D-Fest.

It COULD be but I doubt it will be.

All of the above answers and concerns bother me. An independent radio station will not help. Who doesn't have XM radio these days? That doesn't help. We have and have had KSPY for a long time who DOES play local music and independent music from all around, it hasn't helped.

We DO have a ton of local musicians who play and write their own music - the venues are telling them they have to play more covers or they won't be booked. Some actually require so many covers per night or you don't get paid.

Schools still look at music as an extracurricular activity that will never be essential in the education of our children. And when they do have music, it's only in the form of a marching band to perform for the football team.

Arts & Entertainment as a whole severely lacks as useful in the eyes of most of Oklahoma City. I don't know how to change the attitude or create the support.

But I can tell you that those of us involved will not give up. We keep moving forward every day and will continue to challenge those who insist upon standing in our way.

Tulsa definitely has an edge. It's an interesting mix of people to make up a discussion though. It looks like they at least tried to cover the bases from classical to contemporary. There has to be a demand for the music before it starts to thrive. If you go somewhere like Austin, you will have a hard time finding a restaurant that doesn't have some sort of live music every night. They have an insane number of musicians there, and there are plenty really good ones.

We have plenty good groups here too, but we don't generally see as many upcoming groups get past their own garage....practicality in lieu of the dream. We don't have as many people willing to "live out of their van" so to speak, so they don't really make the push as often. It's just a different mind set.

Now I think the first way to get that to change is to start an independant station that doesnt play the normal pop crap we hear everywhere else on the dial. I gave up local radio when I got XM 5 years ago. I pretty much stay on The Pulse, Sound of Starbucks, and Soundtracks. I love being able to hear new artists and songs that I would never hear in OKC. Eventually they make it into mainstream too, but it takes longer. I think it we had an outlet for people to hear our sound, then it would start to take off. But do we think we can fund it so it doesnt flop? Independants struggle financially but they are so incredibly important to the music world. For every one of the big name groups you hear on mainstream radio, I'm sure you'll find dozens of garage groups that influenced them at some point. Not to mention the number of these folks that took part in music education while in school!

I think we may be confusing having a music "scene" with just having live music a bit. That is, Tulsa doesn't have much more of a "scene" from I have seen. Cain's is obviously the premier venue, but that has more to do with touring acts, that is, bands from other scenes. In my experience I have not noticed greater support for or quality of bands in Tulsa over OKC. Both are lacking a lot and both are very cyclical, and sometimes one is up and the other is down. However, D-Fest is a great event for all Oklahoma music lovers and musicians and it would benefit both scenes if OKC had something similar that complimented it. There would be room for one in each town for sure.

But I think the issue here is can Oklahoma City be a place where bands are incubated, that is, can they live and work here off their music and manage their careers from here. The answer to that is definitely-maybe. It depends on what you are trying to do with your music. If you want to write, record, and distribute music, you can do that anywhere today. However, having a "scene" usually means active support of a well stocked and varied talent pool. This means going to clubs and paying covers.

Personally, I think you can do anything you want, incentive wise, and it won't get people in the clubs more. I am kind of amazed actually that so many are complaining about cover bands. I have been in bands and I go see bands at clubs and I don't see many strictly cover bands and I have never been given or heard of anyone being given a cover quota. Of course, I don't always see a lot of people at the shows either, but sometimes I do.

I think the real problem is that, right now, we lack a critical mass of people who are willing to take chances and go see bands every weekend. I'm not saying that there aren't people who do this, it's just not enough people to support a full blown scene. We have musicians for sure, but who do they play to... it seems everyone is going to bars that want covers and not the places that book original bands. Of course, this changes all the time. Sometimes it seems it is hip to follow local bands and other times it seems like it's about dressing up and being seen, rather than be a part of the "scene".

All that being said, I have been to plenty of large cities with "scenes" who have empty rooms several nights a month. We also have to keep it all in perspective and make sure we're chasing a reality.

Well, if you want an independant radio station, I think the easiest way to establish one would be through a university. OCU or the new Academy of Contemporary Music (Flaming Lips U) could set up a student-run station that plays local bands.

By the way, it's kind of sad that the original article has an obvious spelling error. It should say "in the vein", not "in the vain". Maybe our students need more education in English before we worry about music.

OKC can be known for producing popular musical acts, but it will never become a "great music town."

I always crack up reading these stories when they list our rich musical legacy (Garth Brooks, Leon Russell, and one of the dudes from Brooks and Dunn! For awhile there, Sandy Davis would always mention the drummer in the Tractors).

Anyhoo, love 'em or hate 'em, Hinder is from OKC and they are hugely successful. They slugged it out in the clubs, made a demo, and made it big when they signed to Universal. Their last disc went triple platinum and they still live in OKC when they are not on tour. Their success may have been an accident, but getting a deal, massive radio play and lots of units sold takes more than dumb luck.

To my point: I think for OKC to be a music "scene," it likely will be because of bands like Hinder to "make it" and lead by example. Talent helps. Given the changing landscape of the traditonal concept of the music business, bands and musicians are going to have to be more innovative with utilizing new media and new media opportunities than ever before. I suspect soon that there won't even be major labels anymore, as more and more acts manage the process of getting their music heard through other means. For example, Edgar Cruz makes a great living as a musician by maximizing his opportunities and taking advantage of niches in the market. He travels all over the country and gets paid to play.

As for a scene in OKC: It's not going to happen, and never will, because of the chasm between Norman and OKC and the fact that we are far from a 24-hour city. Go to Bricktown on a Tuesday night (non NBA night) sometime and you'll find a ghost town. People don't want to see a live band on any night except Friday or Saturday, and half the time they don't want to listen to anything except a version of "Brown Eyed Girl." That's the way it's always been, and the way it will always be. Collectively, we are not sophisticated or diverse enough to galvanize and build a "scene." Every time that an audience can be built for a "scene," they end up having kids and starting families, and they stop going out. Then, it takes another few years, and the cycle repeats itself.

There are many talented people here, but they need to make it through their own will and way. A little encouragement helps, but it likely will remain up to the musicians to create their own pathways.

No.

The end.

whoa... not at our schools. We have a Band and a full String Orchestra and so do most of the surrounding high schools.

My son got the phone number of a counselor for the new Music Academy. I'm hoping the fact that he has taken classical violin (lessons and at school) through middle school and made 1st hour Honor Orchestra in high school will carry some clout in admittance and hopefully scholarships.

__________________
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No. All that needs to be compared are the following 2 websites:

OklahomaRock.com - Concert Calendar
Austin Live Music - Austin, Texas

There are more shows in Austin on a Tues. night than the entire weekend in the state of Oklahoma.

Obviously you are not a country music fan. You've left out a few of history's biggest selling country acts: Reba, Vince, Toby, Carrie. That's not a laughing matter. As far as top acts in country today... Oklahoma is on top.

Nothing againsts Hinder... glad they are from here... but still less famous than their Okie country cousins.

Maybe... I actually think it will be more likely Red Dirt bands like Cross Canadian Ragweed.

It's a possibility if the ACM@UCO is extremely successful.

But I think we are much closer to being a "theatre" city. OCU's status as a magnet for talent in theatre, dance, and musical theatre (both students and faculty) means that we have a great community and professional theatre scene. It even trickles down to the high schools. Edmond North, Edmond Memorial, PC North, and others have phenomenal theatre programs. In the last year, we have seen three new theatre groups form, and that's without losing any of the old ones.

Ghostlight Theatre Club (at a.k.a gallery in Paseo) produces alternative, experiemental, and avant-garde productions like World of Mirth and Neal LaBute's The Shape of Things. Ghostlight Theatre OKC

Hope Theatre Company (at Kerr Auditorium downtown) is a youth & college community theatre currently prepping Elton John & Tim Rice's AIDA. http://www.hopetheatreco.com

and Reduxion Theatre (at Stage Center) specializes in classical and contemporary theatre. Their upcoming production is Romeo & Juliet set in post-WWII Japan. Reduxion Theatre Company

On any given weekend, there are at least 3 or 4 shows playing in the metro between the professional and community theatres and the colleges.

I guess that depends on what kind of music we're talking about.

How do we get Toby, Garth, Reba, Vince, Carrie, and other successful musicians to reinvest a little back here? I'm not talking about gaudy, Branson-style music palaces - just small to medium sized venues that incubate new musicians. A place like the Blue Door is super inexpensive to operate, and it does wonders for the local music scene. It gives artists a chance to perform and gain a little exposure.

Those country stars are fine and all, but they're not going to make OKC the next great music town. I wouldn't even say we have a country music "scene" in OKC; Nashville beat us to that. A "scene" consists of more than a handful of successful bands coming from the same place. A "scene" involves a collaborative effort on the part of local bands. Also, key players in the "scene" are often not musicians at all, but business owners, promoters, artists, and journalists.

Go down to Austin and check out some of the local talent. Chances are many of those bands know each other very well. In a real music scene, musicians feed off of each other and work towards improving the climate for bands in general. They associate themselves with venues and establish relationships with other influential locals.

The fact that we don't have an independent radio station is telling for OKC. Hell, we don't even have a college rock station. The best example of a "scene" that I've seen lately is the Helium Project at RedHouse. (theheliumproject.com)

Those guys are bringing together young creatives for house-party-like shows by some great local musicians. Not only are the bands getting exposure, but the artists, photographers, designers, writers, entrepreneurs and other people that attend these shows are meeting each other. I went to the first show, and it was exhilarating to see so many young creative people in one room together.

I think the best Oklahoma City style music - music that OKC can really claim as something pretty unique - Is the peculiar psych/trippy rock that comes from our area. Think Flaming Lips, Stardeath and the White Dwarves (recently signed by Warner Bros), Starlight Mints (Norman), and Colourmusic (Stillwater).

I see a growing local music scene here, where many of these unique bands are quite popular and have growing national/international fanbases. Now that we've started embracing that on a more mainstream level with all the recent attention for the Lips, that could develop even further.

Exactly. These are the kinds of bands that could make this a great music town. I'm not sure about THE next great music town... but it's a helluva start. Sadly, none of these bands really play OKC that often. You might say the fact that they're touring is a sign of success, and it is, but the fact remains that if they chose to stay closer to home, they would quickly run out of appropriate venues to play.

The Blue Door=The best small venue in OK.

It's not all about big names, fancy equipment, beer sales and cupholders. It's about music.

OU needs to bring the Wire to FM in the OKC Metro. Currently it plays indie and alternative rock on 1710 AM but is rather obscure.