If the current growth rate is extrapolated, you get:


City: 2007; 2015; 2020; 2025

OKC: 1,262,027; 1,387,509; 1,473,732; 1,565,314

TUL: 955,643; 1,012,435; 1,050,040; 1,089,042

Tulsa is poorly managed and has shitty leadership. Tulsa has a different feel to it than oklahoma city but I do not feel safe in downtown tulsa (thats where I work) after hours. The suburbs are pretty nice and tulsa has some nice areas but the city is in shambles right now and they keep electign one idiot mayor after another. The mayor now wants to drastically raise taxes on businesses downtown to fund a ballpark. This tax has the potential to drive numerous businesses out of downtown including the one I work for. Hopefully the city of Tulsa will not vote in this ridiculous tax on its businesses within the IDL. The city council is discussing it now :noes:

do these figures exclude outmigration of college grads and illegal immigrants?

Ummm what? Those are population figures of residents. If you're illegal you're not counted, if you move away you're not counted because you moved away.

The .com bust really hurt tulsa quite badly, I think they are slowly getting their feet back under them but until the city gets good leadership things will be kinda stagnant.

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Pete!!!

Pretty amazing numbers if you look at the the difference there between OKC and Tulsa. Half a mil!

Well just based on the numbers provided in here and assuming a constant rate of growth the OKC population would be 603k in 2015, 646k in 2020, and 693k in 2025.

Metro area projections would be 1.305MM in 2015, 1.405MM in 2020, and 1.514MM in 2025.

have you not seen the 405 FO SHO or DON'T HATE THE 918 tees?

But we can't expect a constant growth...We will probably be gaining more and more people every year as OKC becomes more popular. We should reach those numbers well before those respective dates.

Look at Austin, or Fort Worth. Well Fort Worth has the help of Dallas, but still. They were growing at a similiar pace that we are now 8 years ago and then they hit an explosion. I think we'll see that explosion soon.

But yay for being the 31st largest city in the U.S.! Maybe we can take over Portland soon. We're only 3 thousand behind.

One small point of correction - illegals are counted in the census. That is one of the main points behind elected officials in Florida, California, Arizona, Texas, and Nevada not wanting to do anything about illegal immigration. California gets 3 extra members of Congress just by counting the illegals.

__________________
Oklahoma City - The surprise your family has been looking for.

That really sucks

Tulsa is growing, their 2000-2007 numbers don't reflect current trends at all. Their suburban areas are still growing and their inner city areas are certainly growing. Inner Tulsa is laced with rows of loft housing under construction.

Portions of tulsa are growing the city as a whole is not as the census numbers clearly show. The metro area is definately growing.

I live in the tulsa area, and each time I drive around the Utica Square area I realize the tremendous potential the tulsa area has. It has a decidedly more urban feel than oklahoma city while retaining some of the positives of a midsize metro area. Traffic while substantially worse than OKC is still good by national standards barring a few exceptions. The city itself is beautiful but the city is so poorly managed that the infrastructure is crumbling and the tax base is fleeing. Instead of lower taxes and offering incentives to bring businesses into the area, tulsa is raising taxes on existing businesses and this is no more obvious than inside the IDL.

What happened to the days when you had a SMSA and a Greater city population? They've got all these different ones now and it's confusing. What compares to the old SMSA? Is it MSA or CBSA?

Ya know I like Tulsa too. It does have a unique vibe to it that many cities of its size could only dream about. For example, driving down the BA Expressway b/w dowtown and 169 reminds me of driving on the Dallas North Tollway which goes through some of the nicest older parts of Dallas. But then I realize how bumpy and pothole-ridden that thing is. Its almost like a metaphor for the entire city. Nice and pleasant to look at, but you can't enjoy it when the fundamentals are crumbling. I do like Kathy Taylor, but it takes a LOOONG time to turn a ship and I hope people in Tulsa don't get ancy and vote her out. Just like how a strong OKC benefits Tulsa, a strong Tulsa will ultimately benefit OKC.

No, it's growing... The numbers show it too. Yeah, it's shrinking if you compare the 2000 estimate with 2007, but it's growing if you compare 2005 or 2006 with 2007.

The most interesting thing that will come of the 2010 full census: detailed census tract information on inner oklahoma city showing the growth of downtown and especially of Maywood Park.

The only thing that's going to help Tulsa is an infusion of different citizens. The bottom line is that Tulsans will not support tax-funded public initiatives to improve their city. Your post reminds me of something my uncle in Tulsa was saying 10 years ago when Susan Savage was in office.

There are literally a couple of dozen loft housing units being developed in Tulsa. What a renaissance! (snark)

I don't think it's merely a reflexive We Hate Taxes stance, although there's certainly some of that; there seems to be a conviction that Tulsa city leadership has entirely missed the clue bus, and it's going to take time (and new leaders) to overcome this belief. It wasn't all that long ago that Oklahoma City was in similar straits. And MAPS didn't pass by a huge margin, though just try to find someone today who says he voted against it.

for a small monthly fee, land lines don't care either 8^)

I can see Purcell as being part of the greater metro as easily as I can see Guthrie and Shawnee being included. Lay out a 50 mile radius from the heart of OKC downtown on a map. All three come within the circle with room to spare.

I don't consider any of the three fitting my own notion of greater metro area, but I do see where some could.

Yes, it does seem confusing. The change came when the census bureau created a new category called "micropolitan" areas, which might be described roughly as "small metropolitan" areas. As examples in Oklahoma, Pottawatomie County (Shawnee) and Washington County (Bartlesville) are micropolitan areas. If a micropolitan area is adjacent to a metropolitan statistical area (MSA), its status is recognized by NOT including it in the MSA. Thus the creation of a new category called CMSA (COMBINED metropolitan statistical area) in which the micropolitan area IS included. Hence for Oklahoma City, Pottawatomie County is not in the MSA but is in the CMSA. And for Tulsa, Washington County is not in the MSA but is in the CMSA. In other words, the CMSA is the MSA plus the adjacent micropolitan area. As to which compares to the former SMSA designation, it is not clear. Under the old designations, Pott County was in OKC's SMSA, but Washington County was not in Tulsa's SMSA.
The Census Bureau has a rather complex formula for deciding which counties are included in a metroplitan area (e.g., number of commuters, unbroken area of a certain density of population, etc.). The weakness I think comes in the fact that they deal only with whole counties, not parts of counties. Thus for instance, all of Osage County is included in Tulsa Metro. The southeast part of that massive county is surely tied closely to Tulsa, but the northern part is sparsely inhabited, borders on Kanss and is actually closer to Wichita. Similarly, for OKC, the northern part of Grady County seems to be reasonlably a part of OKC Metro, but the southern part not so much.
At any rate we now have three sets of figures to deal with---incorporated city population, metropolitan statistical area (MSA), and in some cases combined metropolitan statistcal area (CMSA)

based on the track record of the city can you blame them? THey're handing out freebies to their buddies who support their political campaigns and wasting tax payer dollars on a host of other endeavors...I wouldn't support it either. Oklahoma City started slowly began using the tax payer money in a wise manner and as a result the tax payers trust the city and OKC's downtown is a great place to hang out.

Wife and I were in downtown tulsa friday night for a show, but we couldn't really eat downtown because there's only a few places down there that are actually quality eateries.

Tulsa will not get citizens back in large numbers until they fix or at least start fixing their problems. They wont get businesses downtown if htey're going to raise taxes 5, 10 or 25 times on businesses within the IDL. They're doing things in an opposite manner from other cities that have experienced growth and regenerations of downtown.

You mention this tax increase, yet I haven't heard of it. What, specifically, is this tax increase? Can you provide a link?

If it is a TIF projects, Oklahoma City has passed several of those as well, and all cities are using them to improve specific districts within a city.

If it is a TIF, it's not really a tax increase; in the case of TIF, property taxes WHICH ARE ALREADY LEVIED are set aside to go back to the district itself.

I'm getting the idea you're turning this into an anti-Kathy Taylor rant. I can't imagine she would punish one part of the city over another. That is highly suspect.

If your employer is against simple TIF financing than he/she is part of the problem in Tulsa, and represents the viewpoint in Tulsa that is preventing improvement. There is nothing unusual about TIF projects. They've been happening in great cities across the country for years, and they are a novel and fair approach to business district improvement.

Do you live in Tulsa? It's been all over the news and AM radio for 3 weeks now. The city council had a big and long meeting about it this past week.

If you dont live in tulsa that explains why you haven't heard about it, I'll try to dig up a couple links for you...stand by.

Here's some links
Tulsa World: Some have reservations on ballpark plan

Tulsa World: Petition seeks to void stadium district

NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com | Greenwood District Ready For Homerun


THis mayor is an idiot, she's broken her promises with regard to law enforcement citing the same excuses that LaFortune used. She wants to ask tulsa businesses for help when the city is too busy giving handouts to buddies to fix roads and she's simply wanting to tax business in Tulsa, specifically downtown tulsa MORE for a ballpark and a city that has a poor track record of performing.

Oh and lets not forget, that she "accidently" voted twice in 2004 once in florida and once in tulsa....whoops.