Point taken Cuatro.
Bad example on my part.
Was not taking a shot at OSU.
I was trying to give an outside the state perspective on the Tulsa OKC thing.
Better example would have been Dallas and Fort Worth.
Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Both of which are much closer.
than Tulsa and OKC.
Point is one will be out front than the other.
That is the Fact.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Some of my Tulsa friends know OKC based on what they see driving I/44/I35. And I agree with them - that driving experience is depressing and shouldn't be representative of us.

Lot's of overnighters just want a safe, clean, hotel/cafe for the family while driving THRU Okc. They don't care about bricktown, have time for a canal ride, NBA game, Bombing memorial, etc.

Some of my Tulsa friends know OKC based on what they see driving I/44/I35. And I agree with them - that driving experience is depressing and shouldn't be representative of us.

You mean I-40 and I-35? I-44 does OKC more justice than the other two interstates. That being said, I-44/I-244 through Tulsa is depressing. Lake Hefner Parkway and Broadway Extension/Centennial Parkway are OKC's best bets for sight seeing from a freeway. It sounds like your Tulsa friends drive thru OKC, not to OKC.

Swake2, if the argument is over government jobs, then why doesn't Tulsa fight for more government jobs? Seems to me, at least from a Tulsa leader's perspective, they don't want government jobs.

And, you didn't answer my question concerning Tulsa's leadership. In OKC, we put our leaders in office to work hard to insure our city's future. And they do their jobs. Where is Tulsa's leadership?

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Amtrak doesn't want their service to go to Tulsa, they want it to go to Newton. That makes much more sense because that's one third the right of way that would be required to connect OKC to Tulsa and then to KC.

And this state can only support one medical school. Why should we water down what OU Med has to offer just because OSU and Tulsa are jealous?

First of all, I will say that no one here is defending ODOT. They have been just as slow and made just as many mistakes in OKC as they have in Tulsa.

Secondly, the things you mention Swake--the government jobs, the location of Tinker, the amount of interstates and turnpikes, etc--have all been true for decades, but supposedly until the last 15 years Tulsa was so superior. What changed that you are now begging for support from the very state many of you say you want to secede from?

See, when Tulsa needs your support for issues, it's "elect better people", "fight for it" but when you want support for something you want, keeping an airbase or winning an NBA team, then we hear "lets all work together, we're all one state", you only want to get along when it helps your side of the turnpike. Hypocrites.

And that is why there is anger on the Tulsa side. And it's nothing new, it's been that way for decades.

What swake fails to mention in his overall sound arguments is the overriding political culture of Tulsa. Remember, Tulsa is all about "don't tax me" and traditional GOP politics. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the success of Vision 2025 is an aberration; Tulsa has voted down five separate proposals in the last decade.

Also, most of its suburban residents couldn't give a rat's patootie about the City of Tulsa, let alone the inner city. Swake paints a picture of Tulsa being victimized, but Tulsa citizens have had the chance to change things and they've chosen otherwise.

Blame what you will, but the State of Oklahoma did not help OKC crawl out from the doldrums, MAPS and dedicated leadership from elected officials and citizens did. Swake fails to acknowledge this.

Let's face it, Tulsa is nice, but it's also the home to extremely conservative religionists, bigots, and me-first oilies -- many of whom have bolted the city for Houston. How is that the fault of OKC or state government?

Please, the victim thing is taken too far. If most Tulsans agree with your thesis, your city is screwed, as it will never be able to overcome its problems -- it's not even recognizing what they are.

Not to mention, what do you ask of your elected representatives in OKC and Washington? Why do you continue to elect nimrods like John Sullivan and expect things to change?

Tulsa is also extremely segregated, one of the most segregated cities I've even seen. Now, it's a city in three parts: North Tulsa, Midtown, and 'Burbs, and no one in these areas even agrees what the city should do. The Burbies don't even think they should have to pay a shiny red penny to help the city since they don't live there (despite the fact they wouldn't have a job and shiny burb if the city weren't there).

Tulsa has deep problems that cannot and will not be solved by whining about OKC's relative success.

That is just a retarded statement. And whats with the OU lovefest in this thread?

That's a load of crap, Swake, and you know it. Who backed you guys in the Vision 2025 election? Who helped bring the Whirlpool Plant to Tulsa in the late 1990s? Who frequented Tulsa in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s before OKC revived itself?

When proposals come from Tulsa, we do back you up. That is of course, WHEN proposals come from Tulsa. As far as roads go, ODOT has the upper hand now as far as which roads get attention first.

We can sit here and debate all night the needs of I-40's Crosstown Bridge, but when it collapses, what will your words be? Didn't ODOT JUST repair a big hole in the Crosstown recently?

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one thing everyone has failed to mention is that tulsa's also upset that we're getting a new skyscraper (which may end up as the tallest in the state too).
that combined with the nba and no longer being the cultural center of the state is obviously fueling this animosity.
and just for the record... i've gone round and round with swake on the okc vs. tulsa nonsense on another forum. (that is why i say what i do to him)
however, i do like having tulsa right down the road. i have tons of friends there and have spent an a$$load of time there.
i no longer feel it's prettier tho. the skyscrapers are a tad snazzier. however, the public, civic & govermental buildings are old and boring. with the exception of one new portion of I 44 and BA expressway... the highways are old and gross. the nightlife is no comparison to okc either and they are stuck in the 90's rave scene. i do know a lot of okc dj's (and even one's in dallas) that turn down bookings in t-town and many of the parties they throw don't have very good turnouts. i did hear about a party recently (that i no-showed at) that had a decent crowd.
however, i do love playing at d*fest (and am looking forward to this upcoming festival) and noticed how the younger (hipster) crowd was aching at not having decent dance parties. the kids went off... i felt sorry them.

what do you mean by that? one of there malls is closing.

they will get a new skyscraper sooner or later. if OKC gets one, they have to get one.

WHAT!? That is so weak. Sorry, but it is. This has nothing to do with all of that stuff. People worked their ass off in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City has footed the vast majority of the bill on this deal, Oklahoma City is taking most of the risk, and, last but certainly not least, people from Oklahoma City own the team and that's where they will play.

To sit here and say that people from Oklahoma City have a huge animosity towards Tulsa and that people in Oklahoma City never support Tulsa in anything is just complete BS. The naming of the team after Oklahoma City in no way supports that contention, as it has nothing to do with it in the first place. Besides, if your posts and the posts of other Tulsa forum users are any indication, the source of animosity is almost completely on the Tulsa side here and has been consistently for a long time. I mean, sometimes it seems you're registered here almost for the sole purpose of running down OKC and to make endless comparisons of Tulsa to Oklahoma City.

Anyway, I have never bought into this whole rivalry thing. I have lived in other states, and in the broader perspective of it all, it just seems so foolish and this is a great example of it. You're taking the naming of a team after a city, over 80% of which all teams are, and paralleling it to political injustices at our state capitol. You think that because you don't always get what you want, that it's Oklahoma City's fault. You are blaming the inadequacies of your leadership on the people of Oklahoma City, using the naming of a basketball team as evidence of it, and then trying to tell us it's irrational to suggest you get better leadership? That's straight out of fantasyland. I can't vote for your representatives, but if you have some that I should support through money or leg work, please let me know who and why. I unfortunately don't have the money and resources to buy you a team and name it after Tulsa, as it most definitely should be in the event one plays there and is owned there, but I will buy a ticket and come party on the club level with you and will never suggest that the name is some grave injustice.

I don't know what else to say, because I just can't grasp how any of this is about anything but who paid for all of this and where they will play. But if it helps, think of it this way: hopefully, Tulsa will be in the position very soon to compete for a permanent tenant for its awesome new arena. You now have some political equity in that endeavor. If Tulsa is a part of Oklahoma City's NBA team's success, then Tulsa will gain more leverage by saying to any league or team owner, "Oklahoma City is part of your potential market as well, just look at the NBA". You have to realize that you gain nothing if you get all pissy about the name and walk away. On the other hand, you stand to gain a butt load of leverage if it is shown that market demographics can be considered across both Tulsa and Oklahoma City when evaluating the markets for new industry and entertainment.

Yeah, so I’ll say it, “let’s work together”. And I mean it, because the reality is that Tulsa and Oklahoma City aren’t competing for this stuff. Tulsa and Oklahoma City are competing with the Chicago’s, Kansas City’s, Seattle’s, and the other 30 some odd markets that outrank us both. And if Tulsa pulls it off through their recent and future investments, who would I be to tell anyone what it should be named?

No. You're putting words in our mouths.

Tulsans are less likely to jump on the Oklahoma City Whatevers bandwagon than if it was the Oklahoma Whatevers bandwagon. Your city, our state.

End of discussion. It's not intercity jealousy; it's geographic marketing reality. If you don't think it's real, check all relocated franchises over the last 10 years and compare whether they took on a regional name or a city name. Or just ask David Stern--marketing is being ignored in favor of politics.

yes it is....period.

So, I guess it's still okay for Tulsans to jump on any of the other regional city bandwagons:

St. Louis Cardinals
Dallas Cowboys, Mavericks
Houston Texans, Astros, whatever the NBA team is (Rockets?)
San Antonio Spurs
Kansas City Chiefs
NYC Yankees
Chigago Bears, Bulls, Cubs

but, throw OKC into the mix, a new pro team that will be within your own STATE, and suddendly you couldn't support that?

So if that's not jealousy, then what would you call it?

What if the team's nickname was "Thundercats"? Would you still want the "Oklahoma" geographical designation, or Oklahoma City? Food for thought.

__________________
...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

Since 1990, 12 major league teams have changed cities and only three did not take the name of their host cities. And two of those started off playing in other towns while their permanent home was readied.



NBA
2001: Vancouver Grizzlies moved to Memphis.
2002: Charlotte Hornets moved to New Orleans.

NHL
1993: The Minnesota North Stars moved to Dallas and became the Stars.
1995: The Quebec Nordiques moved to Denver and became the Colorado Avalanche.•
1996: The Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix and became the Coyotes.
1997: The Hartford Whalers moved corporate offices to Raleigh, North Carolina and became the Carolina Hurricanes. For two years they played home games in Greensboro while an arena was under construction in Raleigh.

NFL
1995: Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis.
1995: Los Angeles Raiders moved back to Oakland.
1996: Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore and became the Baltimore Ravens.
1997: Houston Oilers moved to Memphis and became the Tennessee Oilers. The team originally planned to play both 1997 and 1998 in Liberty Bowl Memorial Stadium in Memphis before moving to their intended destination of Nashville. However, due to poor attendance, the team moved to Nashville in 1998, playing in Vanderbilt University's stadium. The team was renamed the Tennessee Titans in 1999, when their new stadium was opened.

MLB
2005: Montreal Expos moved to Washington, D.C. and became the Washington Nationals.

MLS
2006: San Jose Earthquakes moved to Houston and became the Houston Dynamo.

Didn't say I couldn't support an OKC team. Probably will. But I still feel you're telling Tulsans to get on excited about the Oklahoma CITY team as opposed to the Oklahoma STATE team. You don't think that might make some difference in whether I want to go buy an $80 jersey? Really?

This thread started because people got in a huff about some Tulsa internet types picking silly names for your team, and interpreting that as snobbery/jealousy. I'm trying to explain to you that it doesn't make sense to get so upset that Tulsans don't feel included in your joy, when your mayor and team owner pretty much explicitly excluded them.

After all, we're really just rooting for laundry.

Oklahoma City and the taxpayers built the arena.
Oklahoma City investors purchased the team.
Oklahoma City taxpayers, with a little help from the state, have agreed to upgrade a facility owned by OKC.

It were the citizens of OKC who got the ball rolling. The state is helping out because it realizes the potential marketing power having a major league franchise will bring.

__________________
...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

a little off the subject, but have you seen the latest pictures of the BOK center? that place blows the ford center out of the water. it may be smaller, but what a building. leave it to tulsa to copy OKC and build something better.

Temporarily. Wait until next year when the renovations are completed. Until then, I'll take the big diamond ring and let someone else have the nice-looking, empty black box in which it came.

__________________
...this shortest straw has been pulled for you

Why don't you read the thread before posting? It's been said before in this thread marketing is part of the reasoning behind naming it Oklahoma City instead of Oklahoma. Naming it after the state makes the team sound small time and like a college team.

If Tulsa went out and got an MLB team and named it the Tulsa Whatevers, I'd support them and I don't live in Tulsa or OKC.

Whatever small amount of difference that may make in the sale of a few tickets or jerseys will be eclipsed exponentially but the positive PR for Oklahoma City and the resulting financial benefits.

The owners (and taxpayers that are investing in the arena) stand to gain greatly by promoting the city in which they live, work and are heavily invested.

This is an easy call if you want to bring economics into it.

Here is a thought and solution for the the friction between two great communities.
Stop the competing.
Every year the High School football championship tries to place a Tulsa team with an OKC team. When I was in High school PC West 1979 we palyed a state championship game against PC. No political correctness. The best two teams were in. Back then no Tulsa team ever made it to the championship and people complained. The roles are now reversed.
The Hockey teams compete. The Baseball teams thankfully do not.
We have Bedlam, one part of the state against another.
I love what Colorado has, CU and CSU are in different leagues. the Big 12 and the Mountain West. That allows everyone in the state to root for both teams.
Just a thought.
What do you think.

politics?? did you even listen to our mayor??? when people around the world or nation hear tulsa, what comes to mind... HANSON or NOTHING COMES TO THEIR MIND AT ALL.

unfortunately, okc brings to mind huge F5 tornadoes or the largest act of domestic terrorism. we need something that is not a tragedy associated with our name. we need something positive. so until you have a big a$$ bomb go off in your town or your city is devastated by a big ol' twister... you really need to shut your mouth.



(and no longer being the kingpin city in oklahoma is not a tragedy.... it's comedy)