True that.

Both cities aren't that different, really, at least not when compared to most other cities. Tulsa's prettier, but in terms of economy, stuff to do, quality of life, cuture etc., it's hard to tell them apart, imo.

Especially in their respective internet forums.

Agreed.

I agree with all of your comments, BDP.

As for Tulsa city leaders, they also have suburbs to actually compete with. I mean - really, not in the way Edmond "competes," with OKC. The Tulsa burbs are pro-active in so many ways that force Tulsa into making tough choices and sometimes without the backing of the public because of the, "it's all Tulsa," attitude. The many Tulsans I know don't care whether it's in Broken Arrow or Jenks or wherever -- it's "all Tulsa." But unfortunately, when it comes to financing Tulsa proper that attitude backfires.

Tulsa is a great city in many ways. So is Oklahoma City. Tulsa is a better city in some ways - Oklahoma City is better in others. We should all feel good to have two great cities in our state.

"AgentOrange
Newbie


Posted - 07/07/2008 : 15:46:11 Show Profile Send Private Message Reply with Quote
I'm sure OKC boards would LOVE to hear this discussion...they think Tulsans are a bunch of jealous stuck-up snobs."

Well, I think this guy just picked his own nose! They're smart too!!

I'm a Tulsan and I'm just excited about OKC getting a team as you are. The same goes for every Tulsan I've talked to. I hate this stupid Tulsa vs OKC rivalry. I think majority of Tulsans (including myself) have nothing against OKC and vice versa.

The 66ers have been in Tulsa for several years, they were just made the D-Leage team for Oklahoma City in the last few of weeks. We also share them with a couple of other NBA teams

Sonic Skeptics

NewsOK.tv

Oh, here's a look at the jerseys.

ESPN - Stripped of Sonics colors, logo, OKC starts over in summer league - NBA

I've lived in Tulsa since 1969, but I'm originally from western OK. I've lived in both cities. I like Tulsa, but if my job allowed, I would be living in OKC or Norman.

You have to understand some things about many Tulsans. For many, many years, Tulsa was considered by many to be the 'elite' city in Oklahoma - if they thought we had one at all. They had great public schools through the 1950's and 1960's and Tulsans generally considered their city to be much better in every way than Oklahoma City. Over the past 13 years Oklahoma City has benefited from some leaders who had vision and were able to convince the voters to support their vision at the polls. During the same time frame, Tulsa has had little or no leadership or vision. Most Tulsans didn't even realize how OKC was forging ahead of them until the last 5 years or so. Too many had the attitude that Tulsa was 'prettier' than OKC, so they didn't need to do anything to improve their city - especially if it was going to cost them any money. I think the truth began to dawn when Tulsa could no longer attract big concerts etc. Now, they find themselves many years behind OKC, who is competing with Dallas and Kansas City for concerts, professional sports and Big XII events.

I think that most Tulsans are excited about the NBA coming to Oklahoma. They might be a little jealous, but if they are smart, they are getting ready to support whatever needs to be done to improve Tulsa.

My only reservation is how the NBA will impact the Sooners. Sooner fans, if there is a scheduling conflict, head to LNC or give your tickets to someone who will use them!

I think there is enough people to support OU Basketball and Oklahoma City's NBA team. I mean, this isn't Lawrence KS you know - OKC does have over 1.3M people in its metro.

And Im sure OU can work around days when OKC __ is hosting a game downtown. That's the way it WAS here in Seattle, the UW made it's games as opposite of the former Sonics as possible.

Just imagine how MUCH BETTER Oklahoma City is going to be now that there's a permanent NBA team!!! Talk about having stuff to do... And the team is JUSt the beginning - major league sports brings lots of incidental benefits to a city.

The NBA is JUST the Beginning! Get ready OKC.

__________________
Oklahoma City, RENAISSANCE CITY!

The 66ers (which, incidentally, migrated from the East Coast) are affiliated with the Bucks and with the OKC Team To Be Named Later.

And this fall, they apparently won't be playing in Tulsa; they'll be in Bixby. Let 'em complain about that.

Tulsa World: 66ers likely moving to Bixby arena

MsProudSooner is exactly right.

I was in college in the late 70's and early 80's and was surrounded by Tulsa kids that constantly looked down their nose at OKC and took every opportunity to claim superiority.

And now they are having a very hard time dealing with the fact that OKC has passed them up and moved on to another level. I also think that most there realize they don't have the proper leadership and therefore don't necessarily believe they will be closing the gap any time soon.


There will always be competition between the two towns and that's a good thing in many ways, a little internet rhetoric and hyperbole notwithstanding.

They'll learn to fear us after they see our mighty, throbbing, erect chrome-plated observation tower.

I have to say, that is the first time I've read an article where the team was called Oklahoma City. It was rather nice. And it seems the national media is already over the Sonics drama. Time for everyone but Seattle to move on.

I actually ran across this thread over the weekend and thought about posting it. I read a lot on TulsaNow. It is much like this site which is very informative. You know for the longest time I couldn't stand OKC and never even wanted to visit the city. I grew up just south of Tulsa and it seemed so much nicer and cleaner. This was during the 80's and we all know what OKC looked like back then. Now that I have been living in the OKC metro for the past four years my mind has certainly changed. I will always be partial to Tulsa just because I have found memories of visiting the city, but I will be the first to admit that OKC is running off and leaving them. OKC has been very fortunate to have people in powerful positions that want to make things better. I think what many Tulsans are upset about is that Tulsa has reigned supreme in the state pretty much since state hood. While Tulsa is improving it has been passed by OKC. Everyone hates to lose the top spot. Tulsa will probably always be the prettiest of the two cities and probably the cleanest. Tulsa is currently working on a project that will bring the Drillers downtown. If I am not mistaken they have already secured funding and have picked a location inside the downtown loop. I always hate to see things like this. I think it is bad for everyone. Competition on the other hand is good. Oklahoma is very fortunate to have two great cities. There aren’t too many states that can say that. Anyway that is just my opinion.

I don't get why Tulsan's keep trying to portray that they are paying for things in OKC.

They keep saying that the Tax breaks come from state coffers. Excuse me, the money doesn't currently exist. ... There are no NBA players in OK right now, so there's no money coming from them right now. The only thing the tax break does, is CAP the NEW Money that would come in. So, the state still gets some NEW money, just not as much.

I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. Oklahoma City (and I mean CITY) residents are paying for this team - through the temporary MAPS 2.5 tax and certainly OKC residents will make up the bulk of the daily attendance. OKC metro will make up MOST of the rest, then followed by Tulsa, then Wichita, then the rest of the state, then the region.

Furthermore, I don't understand why Tulsan's want to think of OKC as blue collar (when Tulsa has WAY more blue collar jobs than OKC, which is predominantly White Collar).

I also don't get why they think they should be entitled to some regular season games. In all honesty, I think having one reg game in Tulsa would be a great act of kindness for this first year, but it is not required nor should it be. In fact, I think having that as a permanent fixture actually does OKC more harm than good.

I definitely think Tulsa should get some preseason game(s), add Wichita as well - once they get their new arena. The Sonics used to have preseason games in Spokane, and Boise IIRC - so this explains why they had a large geography for their market. But nobody in Spokie or Boise mentioned that the Sonics should have a regular season game.

No doubt about it though, Tulsa should get at least one preseason home game; absolutely. Im thinking Lawton and/or Enid as well. I also think Wichita is a natural (you guys just may not realize how much wichita supports OKC now days), Ft. Smith or Amarillo are also possibilities.

Of the 6 preseason games, I'd say Tulsa 2, Enid or Lawton 1, Wichita 1, Ft Smith or Amarillo 1, OKC 1 (and it should either be the first or last, not one in the middle). That should do fine to suffice our region and make sure there's support.

__________________
Oklahoma City, RENAISSANCE CITY!

Even the "Tulsa is prettier" argument can be debated.

Certainly, when discussing the areas within the respective city limits, Tulsa has more hills and trees.

However, Edmond is every bit as nice as south Tulsa and certainly nicer than Broken Arrow, Jenks or Owasso. Same can be said about Norman.

That reminds me of another complaint I've read from Tulsans. I've often heard some complain that they always get the short end of the stick from the State Legislature. My reply is always that if that is true, they need to elect better legislators.

Don't know about Fort Smith. They would probably have to play at the Stubblefield Center at UA Fort Smith but I think it holds less than 5,000 people. They might have better luck playing in Fayetteville at Bud Walton Arena which is about the same size as the Ford Center. However I guess Lawton and Enid are in the same boat as Fort Smith.

Hi. I'm a Tulsa poster. I know at least one of you from college (hey Mallen!). Just thought I'd get in on the discussion and try to keep it good natured. This is what I posted over there on the Tulsa board:

I guess my point is, the thing was pitched as a statewide effort, but then your mayor came out, shook his finger at the camera, and stated in no uncertain terms that it was Oklahoma City's team and, by God, the name would reflect the city, not the state. I was totally on board until then, and suddenly incredibly repulsed and offended. It was like, "Oh, so that's how it's going to be." Anyway, that's where the snark comes from. It's not a jealousy issue--we are quite aware who has more population, who has more interstate highways, and who has more entertainment venues in the central business district.

It's really comes down to the perception that Tulsa has been getting the short end of the stick pretty regularly lately, and when there was the chance to get together as a "Major League State," petty differences intervened at the last minute and submarined the whole thing.

I know the whole issue of "team name" might seem trivial, but then again, you have to realize, like Jerry Seinfeld says--all we're really rooting for is clothes. So what those clothes say matters. Think about it.

The real difference between Tulsa and OKC is that Tulsa has a very active anti-tax base which stifles any sort of progressive legislation, hence, they are where they are. OKC on the other hand decided to invest in itself and it has paid dividends. Hopefully Tulsa heeds this as a lesson.

I do have to hand it to Tulsa though, they do have a prettier environment with more greenry and trees. However, that's more to do with the environment than with the acutal people...

Ford Center in the heart of Bricktown?

Quick, put the Tulsans back in grade school!

Here's the number one reason why it should be the OKC _____s. We voted for and passed a sales tax (more than once) to fund MAPS. All of that money was raised in OKC. Sure the sales tax was supported through tourism, but the average everyday OKC citizen contributed more money to this team than Tulsa can dream of.

Sorry to disappoint you. It's going to be the OKC something or others.

I am a Normanite.... and I was a BETA @ OU with Mallen.

I echo the sentiments of the poster above who stated what is good for one city is good for the other. In fact I root for Tulsa/OKC/ENID/LAWTON/ANADARKO etc.... to all better themselves. What is good for anyone one of these places is good for the state. Far too long have we been seen as a blemish and not a contributor. The addition of this franchise will do wonders for the entire state...

It will show people that we are an amazing state with the best people on the planet. It will bring about a tremendous economic growth to the entire state (OKC immediately and then Tulsa soon after). Our schools will become more respected, your houses will be worth more money, you won't have to driuve to Dallas to shop etc.... The impact will go along way. I am terribly proud for the entire state of OKLAHOMA to have its first professional franchise.

Lastly, if this NBA team can be supported the next time an NHL team or dare I say MLB team is in available someplace like Tulsa may receive mention or serious consideration (which is an enourmous first step in the right direction). Again, these advances begin and end in the immediate future with the OKC TBDS...

For the record... I too wanted "Oklahoma" as the location rather than OKC.


Boomer Sooner.

Guys, please dont get too caught up in the name of the team. I think it rightfully should be called Oklahoma City __ because OKC took all of the risk and tax. Sure, the state is contributing a tax break but that does not take from anything nor does it mean anyone else is paying for the team. Please understand this and let's move on.

This will be a state team. The Sonics were the state team of Washington, Idaho, Montana, and even Alaska; yet it was named Seattle. Ditto that for the Mariners and Seahawks - and add in Oregon for those teams. Yet, all teams based in Seattle are/were named SEATTLE ___.

I honestly think if we were to name the team Oklahoma ___ that it would interfere SIGNIFICANTLY with the University of Oklahoma (you know, OU SOONERS...), arguably a top 5 marketed football school and near top in most other sports as well. Face it, Oklahoma is a top NCAA brand. ... That's in fact nothing to be ashamed of - but you MUST recognize that.

Sure there are states used in major-league teams. But is Utah a top NCAA school? No. Is Indiana? Nope. Is Arizona? Sort-of but no. Minnesota? Heck no. The ONLY team I can think of that is a top school but also a major league name is Florida, and the Marlins are a very recent addition. But even Florida is not a top 5 NCAA football school year after year like OU is. This is why it works there but would NOT work here.

I can tell you, that OKC officials set out to get a major-league team with the sole purpose of 1) bring top entertainment to THE CITY and 2) bring a marketing vehicle for THE CITY to get exposure to the world. Oklahoma City officials took this risk and Oklahoma City taxpayers agreed and have fronted the bill (as was aformentioned). Portland did the same thing with their Trailblazers - despite that team being the ONLY major-league franchise in that state.

It doesn't have anything to do with city officials now strutting their stuff or whatever, not at all. It is they always wanted a team to make OKLAHOMA CITY better - and the ONLY way to do this is to wear the city's name. Don't be offended, most other cities do it as well.

I, for one, am hoping that Tulsa can get their act together and possibly get a MLS or even an AFL team for BOK. I honestly don't think NHL would work - as it would be weird to have NHL in Tulsa and CHL in OKC (yet OKC is the bigger draw). But if it were to happen, or regardless of what team Tulsa were to get - I'd expect them to use their name. It's their team.

And while Im on this note, I can not understand - for the life of me - why the NBA-DLeague team Tulsa 66ers are NOT GOING TO PLAY IN THE NEW BOK CENTER..... I can NOT understand this. What is going on in TULSA???? Do they just sit on their asses complaining and don't even take care of what they have??????? You have a new arena and yet you don't even seat your TOP ENTERTAINMENT DRAW there?

Come on Tulsa guys, take care of YOUR house first - then worry about what others have. This is what OKC has done - and look at the benefits.

And sure, Tulsa will benefit by Oklahoma City's NBA team just like Tulsan's will support the team. But recognize that Tulsa will offer tangental support, not the prime support that OKC city residents will are and have. For this reason, I don't see any reason why the team shouldn't bear the name of it's owners - Oklahoma City.

Don't get mad.

__________________
Oklahoma City, RENAISSANCE CITY!

I usually step up to defend Tulsa in such discussions, but I can honestly say that after spending a lot of time there on business during the last year, it is a city in decline. Pretty? Only midtown. Even parts of Southern Hills are getting run down.

Don't kid yourselves, Tulsa has become much more of a blue-collar town than OKC. It is the strip bar capital of the world, a haven of crime, poor roads, and decrepit, rotting strip shopping centers.

Utica Square is nice, and so is Brookside, but the vast majority of Tulsa is going downhill.

And they shouldn't criticize us for sprawl, they are sprawling all the way to Muskogee. They have done nothing to improve their inner city, which is falling apart.

They have one semi-decent downtown hotel and another one that has been a dump for years but is finally undergoing a modest renovation. They got all excited about a Residence Inn locating downtown.

They have less than 10 percent of the downtown housing we do.

When I was there a couple of weeks ago, I was reading with incredulity the bitterness and hostility displayed between their council members and mayor. They can't even come to agreement on road projects.

Tulsa is on life support right now.

I dont really understand how the hell this would be true, or where this idea even came from. What about Texas Rangers/Texas Longhorns.

None of those D-league teams play in big arenas. They cant pay what is cost to use something like the BOK Arena. And surely that cant be Tulsa's top entertainment draw, nobody goes to those D-league games.